In a Season of Tanks, why has Zac been allowed to be kept this weak? He's the newest of the lot.

ABlueQuaker··15 votes·3,307 views

Honestly Riot, what the actual hell happened? Mundo, Maokai, Gragas, Malphite, Amumu, Shen, Alistar - the list goes on and on. Nearly the whole pool of Tanks and pseudo-Tanks have been played a few times this season and I've seen Zac played professionally... maybe once. And even that was a loss.

Honestly, Zac was brought brought out little over a year ago at the height of Magic Pen Tanks where you'd play something like Elise, Zac or Amumu and build straight Tank with Sorcerer's Shoes, Liandry's Torment and maybe Abyssal Sceptre if you were doing well. He was never meant to have to build Tenacity - jump into a fight W, Q whoever you land on then press R and manoeuvre around the fight. Nowadays if you use R in a fight, you'll get stunned and be lucky if you can hit even one person with Lets Bounce (maybe two if you're willing to blow flash).

I honestly think he should have Tenacity returned to his Ultimate, or at least turn the slow removal upon activation into a CC cleanse. It's disgusting how bad this ability is in its current state.

47 Comments

hashinshin8 votes

Season of tanks? Are you watching the same worlds as me?

12tales1 votes

I dunno. Are you watching the one where Alistar and Maokai are picked or banned in close to 100% of games?

Long Dong Wukong8 votes

That's because they're the only tanks that can actually tank because they have built in % reduction.

Itemization sucks ass so the tanks that can function with shitty items are the only playable ones.

Caezium3 votes

Hmm... True. Removing the Tenacity completely was likely a mistake. They could have just lowered the tenacity. 75 Tenacity on active was maybe a bit high but straight removing it completely hurts a ton. Yeah he was strong on release but he kind of needs some love.

ABlueQuaker2 votes

Hmm... True. Removing the Tenacity completely was likely a mistake. They could have just lowered the tenacity. 75 Tenacity on active was maybe a bit high but straight removing it completely hurts a ton. Yeah he was strong on release but he kind of needs some love.

Well, yeah. Considering Mundo has Tenacity on Burning Agony - additionally, it has indefinite uptime and is a Basic Ability as opposed to being an ultimate.

Caezium11 votes

Zac has more CC than Mundo so it's hard to make a direct comparison between the 2. Mundo has a relatively shitty initiation where Zac has probobly one of the better initiations there are to offer. Ability to initiate a fight is important.

Comparing Zac to Amumu, Malphite, and Nautilus would be more correct. Perhaps initiation tanks in general need some help. Maybe riot has too much value in initiation?

EDIT: Also Malphite isn't played often this season, Gragas hasn't seen play after they added mana cost to his W and reduced his waveclear, Amumu hasn't seen much competitive play either. Alistar/Mundo/Maokai are the most common at worlds but Alistar is a weird case because in competitive he plays more like a melee carry that doesn't take relevant damage for 7 seconds, if you're talking about support Alistar then he hasn't been played much. Shen hasn't seen competitive play as long as Zac hasn't.

Long Dong Wukong1 votes

They removed Tenacity from almost every champion ability. I personally liked that some tanks were more-or-less unstoppable and couldn't really be deterred from getting where they wanted to be. Singed used to have Tenacity, Trundle, Zac, I'm sure there were others. It was nice.

Those champs losing Tenacity really hurt them in Singed's case, less so Trundle and Zac thought it still hurt.

Earl Eulrich3 votes

Season of Tanks? that would have been S2, to a degree.

12tales1 votes

You only need to look back a bit more than half a year to remember the days of ADCs trying to scratch a Mundo with Thornmail and killing themselves faster than him. With the exception of the month or two where Kayle and Jax were quite popular, this has been a very good season for tanks.

TheCookieMobstah2 votes

I wouldn't call this a season of tanks, I actually think most tanks are in a bad place right now.

However, that said, none are in as bad a place as Zac, I love him, and still occasionally play him, but he is trash now. Better than cannon minion I guess.

ShadowNinetails2 votes

Season of what? You mean season of Bruisers and Assassins, right? Maybe with a splash of Hypercarries? I haven't seen many real tanks this season aside from Rammus in recent weeks.

MrSlowDie1 votes

Season of what? You mean season of Bruisers and Assassins, right? Maybe with a splash of Hypercarries? I haven't seen many real tanks this season aside from Rammus in recent weeks.

and everyone said rammus should be nerfed poor tanks

ShadowNinetails1 votes

That's because any time people get caught by a FOTM champ they don't know how to beat, it's automatically because they're OP.

LordTobiothan1 votes

He wasn't nerfed to be balanced he was nerfed to be worked on. He had way to much mobility, as much or more cc than any other champ, and hit hard as a straight tank.

His kit was just broken.

Ale non è male1 votes

Season of tanks? Only Maokai cause his utility, Alistair(and because of a mini-bug fixed in the patches after the world cup patch) and Malph because of the synergy with yasuo are picks at competitive level Mumu has been a solo Q terror, but with his kit he has always been it, and the other tanks except a recent resurgence of Rammus as situational pick are generally in a bad spot right now

12tales1 votes

There were a solid couple of months where Renekton, Shyvana and Mundo were the only relevant top laners, with a bit of Trundle thrown in for good measure.

Ale non è male2 votes

The only tank in this list is Mundo + trundle that could be identified as tank but is pretty much of a unique champ(he is more of an anti-tank than of a tank and more in general being a counterpick more than a pick) renek and Shyv are bruisers more than tank Only Dyrus used consistently mundo in Western competitive scene. It's like saying that irelia was the only relevant top laner cause Wickd used her

12tales1 votes

In my opinion, if somebody is building full tank, they're a tank. I can't really think of a more apt description for a Shyvana with 4k health and 200 Armor/MR - 'Bruiser' doesn't really capture the 'oh my god how the fuck am i supposed to kill that' feeling that one grew to associate with her.

Only Dyrus used consistently mundo in Western competitive scene. It's like saying that irelia was the only relevant top laner cause Wickd used her

Well, that's a straight up lie. Mundo was consistently one of the three most popular top laners (in terms of total picks/bans) for the entire first half of the spring split in NA.

http://static.ongamers.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/0/2262/8664-wrap_002_by_bli08-d7fsnq2.png

SionideCN2 votes

In my opinion, if somebody is building full tank, they're a tank. I can't really think of a more apt description for a Shyvana with 4k health and 200 Armor/MR - 'Bruiser' doesn't really capture the 'oh my god how the fuck am i supposed to kill that' feeling that one grew to associate with her.

Only Dyrus used consistently mundo in Western competitive scene. It's like saying that irelia was the only relevant top laner cause Wickd used her

Well, that's a straight up lie. Mundo was consistently one of the three most popular top laners (in terms of total picks/bans) for the entire first half of the spring split in NA.

http://static.ongamers.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/0/2262/8664-wrap_002_by_bli08-d7fsnq2.png

Well, you're wrong.

Itemization doesn't make you a tank, it makes you a meatshield

Meashields like mundo require focus because keeping them alive tends to be bad in drawn out fights, if you can assassinate their carries then you're good

Tanks peel for their carries and require cc to be kept off your carries. /thread.

12tales1 votes

You're obviously free to use whichever definitions you like, but Renekton, Shyvana and Mundo are all labeled as tanks in the LoL client. Whatever Riot intends that term to refer to, all three of them are included.

SionideCN2 votes

You're obviously free to use whichever definitions you like, but Renekton, Shyvana and Mundo are all labeled as tanks in the LoL client. Whatever Riot intends that term to refer to, all three of them are included.

And no-one in their right mind uses the riot-definitions, your point?

12tales2 votes

If I decided to believe that the word 'mind' referred to hair, I could do so. And I'd think that your post made absolutely no sense and wonder why you were using words as you did.

Ultimately, however, it'd be silly for me to do that, because as special as I'd feel for coming up with my own definition of an otherwise simple and easy to understand word, it'd be subverting the entire premise of language.

Your position, near as I can tell, is that during the so called 'tank meta' [1][2][3][4], the champions called tanks by Riot [5][6][7] that are commonly referred to as tanks [8][9][10][11][12][13] were not, in fact, tanks.[14]

And that's fine. As I said, you're free to use whichever definitions you like. But I personally think you're being pretty silly.

[1]http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1706858 [2]http://forums.oce.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=40834 [3]http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4274591 [4]http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4219181 [5]http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Shyvana [6]http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Mundo [7]http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Renekton [8]http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/renekton-butcher-of-top-lane-tank-bruiser-288190 [9]http://www.solomid.net/guide/view/121798-renekton-build-guide-fighter-by-hipster_swaqq [10]http://www.lolking.net/guides/180186 [11]http://www.solomid.net/guide/view/125730-shyvana-build-guide-fighter-by-altraus [12]http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/top-lane-mundo-the-hyper-tank-367371 [13]http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/dr-mundo-the-ultimate-tank-215361 [14]http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/00ldcy12-in-a-season-of-tanks-why-has-zac-been-allowed-to-be-kept-this-weak-hes-the-newest-of-the-lot?comment=00040000000000000000

SionideCN1 votes

If I decided to believe that the word 'mind' referred to hair, I could do so. And I'd think that your post made absolutely no sense and wonder why you were using words as you did.

Ultimately, however, it'd be silly for me to do that, because as special as I'd feel for coming up with my own definition of an otherwise simple and easy to understand word, it'd be subverting the entire premise of language.

Your position, near as I can tell, is that during the so called 'tank meta' [1][2][3][4], the champions called tanks by Riot [5][6][7] that are commonly referred to as tanks [8][9][10][11][12][13] were not, in fact, tanks.[14]

And that's fine. As I said, you're free to use whichever definitions you like. But I personally think you're being pretty silly.

[1]http://forums.euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=1706858 [2]http://forums.oce.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=40834 [3]http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4274591 [4]http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4219181 [5]http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Shyvana [6]http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Dr._Mundo [7]http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Renekton [8]http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/renekton-butcher-of-top-lane-tank-bruiser-288190 [9]http://www.solomid.net/guide/view/121798-renekton-build-guide-fighter-by-hipster_swaqq [10]http://www.lolking.net/guides/180186 [11]http://www.solomid.net/guide/view/125730-shyvana-build-guide-fighter-by-altraus [12]http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/top-lane-mundo-the-hyper-tank-367371 [13]http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/dr-mundo-the-ultimate-tank-215361 [14]http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/00ldcy12-in-a-season-of-tanks-why-has-zac-been-allowed-to-be-kept-this-weak-hes-the-newest-of-the-lot?comment=00040000000000000000

OKay, since you wanna go all hardcore and site thing; I'll show you how wrong you are.

First off, of the first four links, how many are on the current patch? Oh? zero of them, most of them are from the begining of this year, around 4.01/03. (Back when a tank meta did exist) Keep in mind, this is before the RANDUINS/FROZEN HEART/SPIRIT VISAGE NERFS, back when tank itemization was broken. When riven still had hp/5, and when renketon/shyvana were the only top laners in existence. Siting outdated information doesn't make you right.

Siting that [5][6][7] are tanks is bullshit, because if you look carefully you'll see "PRIMARY: Fighter"; it's like saying Gnar is an adc because his secondary role is "Marksman" it's a weak argument that doesn't make sense, because gnar can't perform and do the job a marksman does, just like shyv, renek and mundo don't have the peel to do a tanks job.

As for citing titles of a guide, that's like citing the title of a newspaper article as factual information without reading the content.

Alistar, Maokai, Sejuani and Leona are tanks, because they have the ability to peel for their caries and posses hard cc. And most of them cannot 1v1 someone (Alistar and Maokai midgame can, but still nowhere near as well as mundo, renekton or shyvana could.

Use currently relevant information; we're in an ADC dominated meta, not a tank one. (How many bans were devoted to tanks OTHER than alistar in worlds?)

12tales2 votes

First off, of the first four links, how many are on the current patch? Oh? zero of them, most of them are from the begining of this year, around 4.01/03. (Back when a tank meta did exist)

I just wanna clarify something real quick - I'm defending the proposition that season 4 has been a season of tanks. Season 4 has been ongoing for just shy of a year, and information from the beginning of that time period is just as relevant as information from the past week when we're evaluating the season as a whole.

By my approximation, there have been three vague epochs of top lane this season - at the beginning of the season, there was the 'tank meta,' where Renekton, Shyvana, Mundo and later Trundle were played almost every game. Near the end of the spring split of LCS, it transitioned into a more carry focused top lane where Jax and Kayle dominated, and other carry oriented picks like Ryze and Irelia did quite well. Around 4.10 or 4.11, both Kayle and Jax were nerfed, and a new breed of tanks focused on percentile damage reduction arose to deal with the newly buffed ADCs - Maokai and Gragas at first, then later Maokai and Alistar.

Overall, altho the exact tanks being played have differed, the strongest top laners have been tanks for the majority of season four. Thus, I feel that 'A season of tanks' is an accurate description.

Siting that [5][6][7] are tanks is bullshit, because if you look carefully you'll see "PRIMARY: Fighter"; it's like saying Gnar is an adc because his secondary role is "Marksman" it's a weak argument that doesn't make sense, because gnar can't perform and do the job a marksman does, just like shyv, renek and mundo don't have the peel to do a tanks job.

Marksman=/ADC. Someone who wants to play the role of ADC will likely chose a champion from the Marksman class, but someone playing a Marksman is not necessarily playing ADC.

Semantics aside, secondary roles are still roles - there's a reason that Shyvana is listed as a secondary tank rather than a secondary assassin (or even an exclusive fighter). She builds for and plays a tanky, initiation focused style.

Use currently relevant information; we're in an ADC dominated meta, not a tank one. (How many bans were devoted to tanks OTHER than alistar in worlds?)

However many were spent on Maokai, plus a bit of change. Don't have the stats in front of me atm, but I imagine there were several dozen.

SionideCN2 votes

I just wanna clarify something real quick - I'm defending the proposition that season 4 has been a season of tanks. Season 4 has been ongoing for just shy of a year, and information from the beginning of that time period is just as relevant as information from the past week when we're evaluating the season as a whole./

By my approximation, there have been three vague epochs of top lane this season - at the beginning of the season, there was the 'tank meta,' where Renekton, Shyvana, Mundo and later Trundle were played almost every game. Near the end of the spring split of LCS, it transitioned into a more carry focused top lane where Jax and Kayle dominated, and other carry oriented picks like Ryze and Irelia did quite well. Around 4.10 or 4.11, both Kayle and Jax were nerfed, and a new breed of tanks focused on percentile damage reduction arose to deal with the newly buffed ADCs - Maokai and Gragas at first, then later Maokai and Alistar.

Overall, altho the exact tanks being played have differed, the strongest top laners have been tanks for the majority of season four. Thus, I feel that 'A season of tanks' is an accurate description.

Marksman=/ADC. Someone who wants to play the role of ADC will likely chose a champion from the Marksman class, but someone playing a Marksman is not necessarily playing ADC.

Semantics aside, secondary roles are still roles - there's a reason that Shyvana is listed as a secondary tank rather than a secondary assassin (or even an exclusive fighter). She builds for and plays a tanky, initiation focused style.

However many were spent on Maokai, plus a bit of change. Don't have the stats in front of me atm, but I imagine there were several dozen. So you're saying "Well earlier in the season tanks were weak so why hasn't zac been been looked at?"; I suppose that makes sense, but tanks aren't an issue now so it wouldn't be pertinent to change him when you have greater overarching ballance issues with ADC itemization.

I agree pretty much alltogether with your summary of top lane; nothing really wrong there. Though I do disagree that just because one lane happened to have tanks in it for a lot of the season makes this the season of tanks; why? because there are two other lanes and a jungle? How much of post spring season has featured tanky junglers or supports? outside of the occasional braum play by those who know how to ply him the most played supports have been thresh, janna and Zilean. Thresh being the closest in that role to a tank, but most of the season has been focused around protecting the hyper-carry adc (Or in worlds not letting insec/dandy pick rengar); even the top kayle picks in worlds were centered around the heavy 'protect the adc mentality' which has existed since the changes to Randuins, FH, BT and IE.

Marksman are ADCs, riot introduced the term marksman because they didn't like the idea of the people being 'carries'; and thought that it gave a wrong image of their role in the game. The only really weird marksman are Teemo and Urgot, all other's have it as a secondary role. Which basically says "You can do this but it wont work as well.

The reason you dont build shyvana or trundle pure tank is becuase they don't have a way to peel damage and will just be ignored in fights, the reason mundo can build almost no damage is bcse of his base damage

Tanks are in a bad spot right now because most of the tank items aren't that great and penetration/adc items are too strong. The reason tank items are bad is because bruisers abuse them way to well when they're good, so it's a tricky problem to sort out.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

I just wanna clarify something real quick - I'm defending the proposition that season 4 has been a season of tanks. Season 4 has been ongoing for just shy of a year, and information from the beginning of that time period is just as relevant as information from the past week when we're evaluating the season as a whole./

By my approximation, there have been three vague epochs of top lane this season - at the beginning of the season, there was the 'tank meta,' where Renekton, Shyvana, Mundo and later Trundle were played almost every game. Near the end of the spring split of LCS, it transitioned into a more carry focused top lane where Jax and Kayle dominated, and other carry oriented picks like Ryze and Irelia did quite well. Around 4.10 or 4.11, both Kayle and Jax were nerfed, and a new breed of tanks focused on percentile damage reduction arose to deal with the newly buffed ADCs - Maokai and Gragas at first, then later Maokai and Alistar.

Overall, altho the exact tanks being played have differed, the strongest top laners have been tanks for the majority of season four. Thus, I feel that 'A season of tanks' is an accurate description.

Marksman=/ADC. Someone who wants to play the role of ADC will likely chose a champion from the Marksman class, but someone playing a Marksman is not necessarily playing ADC.

Semantics aside, secondary roles are still roles - there's a reason that Shyvana is listed as a secondary tank rather than a secondary assassin (or even an exclusive fighter). She builds for and plays a tanky, initiation focused style.

However many were spent on Maokai, plus a bit of change. Don't have the stats in front of me atm, but I imagine there were several dozen. So you're saying "Well earlier in the season tanks were weak so why hasn't zac been been looked at?"; I suppose that makes sense, but tanks aren't an issue now so it wouldn't be pertinent to change him when you have greater overarching ballance issues with ADC itemization.

I agree pretty much alltogether with your summary of top lane; nothing really wrong there. Though I do disagree that just because one lane happened to have tanks in it for a lot of the season makes this the season of tanks; why? because there are two other lanes and a jungle? How much of post spring season has featured tanky junglers or supports? outside of the occasional braum play by those who know how to ply him the most played supports have been thresh, janna and Zilean. Thresh being the closest in that role to a tank, but most of the season has been focused around protecting the hyper-carry adc (Or in worlds not letting insec/dandy pick rengar); even the top kayle picks in worlds were centered around the heavy 'protect the adc mentality' which has existed since the changes to Randuins, FH, BT and IE.

Marksman are ADCs, riot introduced the term marksman because they didn't like the idea of the people being 'carries'; and thought that it gave a wrong image of their role in the game. The only really weird marksman are Teemo and Urgot, all other's have it as a secondary role. Which basically says "You can do this but it wont work as well.

The reason you dont build shyvana or trundle pure tank is becuase they don't have a way to peel damage and will just be ignored in fights, the reason mundo can build almost no damage is bcse of his base damage

Tanks are in a bad spot right now because most of the tank items aren't that great and penetration/adc items are too strong. The reason tank items are bad is because bruisers abuse them way to well when they're good, so it's a tricky problem to sort out.

Well, actually, tank itemisation is really good right now. On AP you get Liandry's or RoA then Frozen Heart and Spirit Visage then usually Abyssal and Thorn with Sorcerer's Shoes. On AD you get Trinity Force instead of RoA/Liandry's, BotRK instead of Abyssal, and Mercs instead of Sorcs.

SionideCN1 votes

Well, actually, tank itemisation is really good right now. On AP you get Liandry's or RoA then Frozen Heart and Spirit Visage then usually Abyssal and Thorn with Sorcerer's Shoes. On AD you get Trinity Force instead of RoA/Liandry's, BotRK instead of Abyssal, and Mercs instead of Sorcs.

What build are you talking about? On what AP tank do you go frozen heart > spirit visage > abyssal; in what situation do you call Liandry's and Abyssal scepter tank items? Abyssal is defensive but nowhere near bought for just it's mr. And just having health doesn't make something a tank item.

And no, tank itemization is not good, it has gone through more nerfs in recent months than Botrk, and that's saying something; don't you remember when Randuins slowed players, fro heart had a higher as slow on its aura and spirit visage gave 20% cdr?

SionideCN2 votes

In my opinion, if somebody is building full tank, they're a tank. I can't really think of a more apt description for a Shyvana with 4k health and 200 Armor/MR - 'Bruiser' doesn't really capture the 'oh my god how the fuck am i supposed to kill that' feeling that one grew to associate with her.

Only Dyrus used consistently mundo in Western competitive scene. It's like saying that irelia was the only relevant top laner cause Wickd used her

Well, that's a straight up lie. Mundo was consistently one of the three most popular top laners (in terms of total picks/bans) for the entire first half of the spring split in NA.

http://static.ongamers.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/0/2262/8664-wrap_002_by_bli08-d7fsnq2.png

"Let me use information that was played ten patches ago" yeah, he was used in the first half of the LCS split because tank itemzation hadn't been nerfed yet, it's not the same game as the beginning of the year, you know they update ballance and that's why picks change right? stop using old info.

12tales1 votes

Because, my friend, this thread refers to the season of tanks. And seasons include many different patches in succession. You will note that my original post says "There were a solid couple of months where Renekton, Shyvana and Mundo were the only relevant top laners, with a bit of Trundle thrown in for good measure." That sentence is in the past tense for a good reason - it is referring to past months on past patches.

PatMcGroyn1 votes

Zac's kit is really overloaded with utility & mobility, making him a hard champ to balance. Really, the only things to nerf on him are his numbers, without changing the core functionality of his kit. I agree he could use a slight buff, but only slight. Because when his damage is high, he's really really strong. 2 AoE knockups tied to 2 different mobility spells, AoE %max health damage on a low cooldown, AoE slow, revive passive, natural sustain. It wouldn't be fair for him to be able to build straight tank and still have good damage.

D1rtFarmer1 votes

zacs been in a shittter for some time now...i wouldnt be surprised if "Feces Zac" or "Toilet Zac" is the next skin. that nerf was... pointless... he wasnt abused ... simply played.

Zahz1 votes

Different champions are different. You cant judge what your champ should have based on things a different champ has. Riot wants counter play and that means being able to ground the bouncing booger.

Cornerstone11 votes

His jungle clear is slow, and picking up his blobs is a huge chore. Increase the range his blobs can be picked up.

AFK Push1 votes

The current state of the meta is one that only appreciates damage and mobility. This is why top lane and jungle are almost completely bruiser picks such as in worlds, lee sin and kha got picked every other game. Hell even the tanks that were chosen in the lcs (mao and ali) were built like ap bruisers, with item 3027 and item 3157.

12tales1 votes

Who's building Maokai with a Zhonya's Hourglass?

AFK Push2 votes

Who's building Maokai with a Zhonya's Hourglass?

Yeah, sorry about that I was generalizing. In worlds everybody rushed a roa on him and a few doran rings, then built straight tank.

Agent20901 votes

I stopped playing Zac when Yasuo was in pretty much every game. He can ult Zac when he slingshots, and if he doesn't feel like doing that, his wind wall stops the slingshot as well.

DaCush1 votes

What? Since when can Yas ult Zac's abiluty?

Agent20901 votes

What? Since when can Yas ult Zac's abiluty?

May have been patched out, haven't played Zac for a long time now.

Desmond Law1 votes

Add to his ult: "Passive: Zac gains 25% tenacity for 5 seconds when he picks up blobs." Would that work?

CoolKnightST1 votes

Tank are slowly coming back to the scene and based on the new season 5 items whe will see a lot more of them. I believe their was some kind of item that grant movementspeed and armor. Finaly tanks aren't forced into movementspeed runes. The only downsite I see season 5 right now is that the aggressive meta will return to the rift. After some changes sustain will rise again (thinking about nami) and the circle continues.

Martyrofsand1 votes

I honestly think he should have Tenacity returned to his Ultimate, or at least turn the slow removal upon activation into a CC cleanse. It's disgusting how bad this ability is in its current state.

Yes because their really should be zero counter play to a massively disruptive ult plowing through your entire team. I can grant you Zac is weak and needs some changes but making him practically CC immune during his ultimate is not the way to go about it.

Honestly if i had to pick a buff for him I would more likely return the kind of grace period so to speak he had on his blobs. Right now they are easily crushed before he gets a chance to get them and since that is his primary means of sustain it can become rather difficult for him, especially during laning, to keep up with his opponents.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

I honestly think he should have Tenacity returned to his Ultimate, or at least turn the slow removal upon activation into a CC cleanse. It's disgusting how bad this ability is in its current state.

Yes because their really should be zero counter play to a massively disruptive ult plowing through your entire team. I can grant you Zac is weak and needs some changes but making him practically CC immune during his ultimate is not the way to go about it.

Honestly if i had to pick a buff for him I would more likely return the kind of grace period so to speak he had on his blobs. Right now they are easily crushed before he gets a chance to get them and since that is his primary means of sustain it can become rather difficult for him, especially during laning, to keep up with his opponents. Tenacity doesn't education the effectiveness of knock ups. Even if Zac had 100% tenacity, you could still nullify his ultimate with something as simple as a flay or howling gale. And I wasn't even asking for him to be cc immune - maybe 15% that perhaps increases to 25-35% (roughly the amount you get from a standard tenacity item) depending on how many blobs he picks up.

Martyrofsand1 votes

And you plan on stopping Zac from buying additional tenacity to stack with his ultimate how? Those champs you pointed out, Thresh and Janna, yeah they where around back when Zac was in his heyday. Care to guess how effect those spells where at keeping Zacs ultimate under control? Pretty damn worthless as Zac jumped around all over their teams for 3 seconds while their knock-ups lasted less than 1 and their slows/hooks/etc lasted even less.

Zac should never return to that state there was simply no counter play to it especially considering the distance from when he could initiate it from with his elastic slingshot.

YOU BEEN WARNED1 votes

How about, he's not fking weak. He has a malphite ult on a regular ability, people just don't play him effectively?? Poppy

ABlueQuaker2 votes

How about, he's not fking weak. He has a malphite ult on a regular ability, people just don't play him effectively?? Poppy

That's a bit of an exaggeration - Malphite's ultimate isn't CC-able, doesn't require channeling, and moves at about three times the speed of Zac's E.

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