Surrender@20 is so depressing, for every 1 damage nerf another 5 champs get damage buffs

oLnPeVerna·Aug 10, 2019·121 votes·20,226 views

Seriously at this point just why? Why are you so hell bent on making the overall damage in the game increase with EVERY SINGLE PATCH?!

Tanks doing bad? You guys increase their damage Assassins? Damage Supports? You nerf their UTILITY and buff their DAMAGE?! ADCs? Damage Mages? Damage Bruisers? Damage Junglers? Damage

Like for fucks sake its embarrassing at this point. Put power into other fucking things besides the ability to nuke the enemy with 0 counterplay because you landed a single spell after missing dozens.

93 Comments

Nea104Aug 10, 201933 votes

Worst thing, they have been keeping doing the same ~~idi~~ absurd stuff for almost 2 years now. This is beyond incompetence.

Jennifer420Aug 11, 201914 votes

"1 damage nerf" in riots case you can take that literally. i can see it coming "we nerf pykes base ad by 1"

Magnesium14Aug 11, 201918 votes

{quoted}

"1 damage nerf" in riots case you can take that literally. i can see it coming "we nerf pykes base ad by 1"

Nah Rito gonna be like Pyke gets a -1 MS nerf, and some pyke otp is gonna come on the boards and be like "The -1 ms nerf on pyke isn't a joke and hurts him."

DeνiruchiAug 11, 20196 votes

Please, -1 ms is a joke, we all know -5 ms is the real deal :^)

ArtumisPrimeAug 13, 20193 votes

And he'll get compensation buffs in the form of 100 more base damage on each rank of ult.

KídáAug 11, 20197 votes

IIRC Riot once said that changing damage was the best way to increase or reduce a champions performance across elos in a solo Q environment while mechanical changes are likely to affect performance only in the top tier of solo Q and in pro play.

IP MasquerenaAug 11, 201914 votes

If yolo que players refuse to cooperate, what else can they do.

Take one of my last games as an example:

Qiyana vs Vel'Koz (Vel is always an easy lane for me after level 3)

12 mins in-game

J4 ganks: 7
Lux gank: 3
Teemo gank: 1

The 0-4-0 Hecarim from my jungle: "gg, report mid, feeder" Jinx, Hecarim's duo: "I always get feeders on mid who can't even 1v1 a trash champ"

Or another game I had today

Qiyana vs Donger, was 7 CS ahead of the Donger, defending my tower, but out of mana and pots, I see Donger back, so I back immediately as well even tho I'd lose half a wave (cannon wave) to the tower, I'm still ahead and backing now won't get him ahead either.

But

2 mins before both us back:

Qiyana : "Trundle, can you cover mid for me a little? Need to base' Trundle : no reply Qiyana : pings assist me Twitch (Trundle's duo): "we don't help noobs like you because we don't wanna give you a free LP boost you"

Then I get ganked 5 times in less than 1 min by Lee because the first 4 ganks didn't result in a kill and get called noob by Trundle and Twitch.

TL:DR - if yolo que players would cooperate, we would see more mechanical changes than just damage, but since they don't, you only see damage changes because only those affect the viability of champs in yolo que.

GigglesOAug 11, 20199 votes

Buffing/nerfing defense would work too though...

FioraWillCarryAug 11, 20194 votes

Actually, you have no one to blame but yourself. You got ganked 11 times. Didn't you learn after the second gank?

IP MasquerenaAug 11, 20195 votes

Learn what? Not play near my tower, play in base?

1st was right as I got 1st blood on Vel and most were dives, so there's no "learning from them", unless you mean "just afk in base as they can't dive you there". A Lux Q into a J4 and Vel combo is doom even under tower, and with their shields, the dive is no problem.

FioraWillCarryAug 11, 20191 votes

If they were so far ahead that they could perma-dive you under tower, then it means you or your team were hard feeding and the game is over anyway. In such a case, you shouldn't even be bothering with trying to win. It's better to just surrender. Games like that happen.

I've reached a point where if I get a hard feeding team, I don't bother. If at 10 minutes into the game the score is like 2-12 I just call that a loss and move on. I don't even bother trying anymore and if it's like my last game before going to bed and my team refuse to surrender, I just leave and go to bed. My point is, some games are just unwinnable from the start. You just have to tune out and move on from that mentally.

IP MasquerenaAug 11, 20192 votes

I know there's unwinnable games, and I don't have an issue with those, we all have bad games, I've had my fair share of bad games, both as laner and as jungler.

What I mean is games like the one i just had. Level 2 gank from J4 just outside my turret range as I was letting Teemo push to try get a bounce and level 3 lead. Ok, that's cool, then got another 2 ganks in the next 3 minutes. I ask Kha to go gank bot or top so he can draw pressure and keep J4 away from mid for a sec, he comes mid, dies 1v2. Kha had the 2nd lowest damage in the team, lowest KP in the team, he was lucky to get 2 KP per fight where we ace them, only playing for kills, legit, the whole team told him to help and all we get was an "I play how I want".

If not for the Yuumi, Irelia and the fact that Qiyana's ult near walls can win fights if followed up on, we would've lost.

It's just tiring. Most of my games are either a hard asspull win, most of the time without a jungler OR a throw from my team, tell them to back Master Yi triple kill. I make mistakes, I fuck up games and lose some because of those mistakes, everyone does, but when there ain't a game looking fair, what can I do?

Look at this one: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/448473930810916864/609841616064348170/Sure.jpg

Their team's lowest ranked player was a B1, now look at my jungler.

I just hate the "if you want a good jungler, go jungle yourself", I'm tired of it, there's a reason why I stopped jungling, but it looks like I might have to go back if I want to win.

BlueBilberryAug 12, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I just hate the "if you want a good jungler, go jungle yourself", I'm tired of it, there's a reason why I stopped jungling, but it looks like I might have to go back if I want to win.

Sympathies.

Light BurnerAug 11, 20191 votes

No one cares, learn to ward and use your map if "getting ganked" bothers you that much.

IP MasquerenaAug 11, 20193 votes

I love how the "learn to ward" is the defacto comment, like, hello, I'm 90% of the time getting the highest vision score in the team, unless playing with a support duo, had occasions when my vision score alone was higher than that of all my 4 team mates combined.

Light BurnerAug 12, 20191 votes

So if my entire team has a vision score of 3 all together and i have a vision score of 4, does that mean i warded enough? Especially if i've been ganked 11 times in 12 mins while the rest of my team barely got ganked and instead has their laners leaving their lane? You logic makes no sense, the fact that teammates are doing poorly means if i do least amount of poorly i did good? Like, hello, wake up if you've been ganked 11 times in 12 mins you're obviously not warding or you're playing far too aggressively that the wards you placed arent giving you the information early enough to get out of these ganks before they happen. Think dude i shouldnt need to explain this to you.

IP MasquerenaAug 12, 20193 votes

So if my ward score is 40 and my team combined is 15 at the end of the game (I had such games), does that mean I'm to blame for not warding enough?

Wake the hell up, it's not like the enemy can't clear my wards. Forced under tower constantly because of the repeated ganks, so I can't even go out to ward too much (also wards have a cooldown, so if I'm the only one placing, then obviously if mine gets cleared, there's no-one else's).

Oh wait, maybe according to you, I should play in base, might try that sometime /s.

Game in question: http://prntscr.com/orsncs

I bought more control wards trying to keep up vision that anyone but Mordekaiser even placed wards in total, and in total I placed more wards than anyone in my team, but hey, look how many control wards J4 and Vel had, know that they were used for? DEWARDING MID. I mean, look at their "wards destroyed" tab, 4-5 each. So yea, I sure do need to ward more.

Actually, why not? Here, a few more of my last games, it's the vision score:

http://prntscr.com/orskn1

http://prntscr.com/orsj22

http://prntscr.com/orsj8h

http://prntscr.com/orsjip

http://prntscr.com/orsjux

http://prntscr.com/orsk9h

Clearly, I'm the one who's not warding enough. Gee, I wonder how did it past by so much, buying wards, especially controls wards, as it's obvious I don't buy any.....

Get off of your high horse....

Light BurnerAug 13, 20191 votes

This is what tells me you're an inexperienced player. Ill explain it further.

"So if my ward score is 40 and my team combined is 15 at the end of the game (I had such games), does that mean I'm to blame for not warding enough?

You said this. Whats wrong with it you might ask?

Just because you're warding doesnt mean the vision is helping. Your vision score might be going up but it may not be helping you. Example: I can ward top side then split push bot and die to 3 bot. I warded, but i still died to 3 of them ganking me, Its obviously my team's fault because i have a warding score of 40 and still was ganked. (Apply this example to laning phase)
You say you're forced under tower because of repeated ganks, so i cant even go out to ward. Well If you're under tower why do you need to ward, can you be ganked by the enemy laner while you're under tower? Or are you being dove? If you're being dove between the 2-14 min mark (the 12 mins at the beginning of the game you said you got camped) then you're probably either too far behind because you died often and missed out on levels or you're staying in lane when you're too low in both cases its your fault not your team.
If you're watching your map and you see your ward get cleared why push up? Like i told you in the prior message if you got ganked like 5 times why push up like something is going to change? Why put yourself in a position to be ganked when you dont know where the enemy team is and you know they've been prioritizing ganking you? How is it your team's fault that you fail to manage such a simple concept?

Get off your high horse and stop blaming teammates for your mistakes. You're shoving lane and dying, falling behind, then either being dove or zoned from the wave and blaming the constant ganks which you could have avoided had you played correctly from the minute the game started. But no you choose to play terribly at the start of the game then want the enemy team to show you mercy. Sorry buddy thats not how the game goes.

You dont see anyone from the enemy team on the map, you dont shove lane and open yourself to ganks.
You're shoved under your tower, you dont need to ward because you cant be ganked anyways so save your ward for when the lane is shoving back to your opponent.
If you choose to shove in your opponent and you dont know where the enemy laners or jungler is try deep warding (enemy raptor camp ward or pixel bush ward)
If you shove lane and feel you're open to gank instead of trying to harass your lane opponent roam.

Ill get back on my high horse now.

IP MasquerenaAug 13, 20192 votes

May I ask at what gym you are going? Those mental gymnastics are quite something.

Since you went up the walls for explanations on why I'm bad and should not blame my team (hint: I'm blaming the jungler only), I'll try to use logic to explain for you.

When banking as a jungler, there's 3 main things to consider:

Damage
CC
Mobility

Do you have the damage to kill the enemy? Do you have the CC to help guarantee the kill? Do you have the mobility to reach the enemy?

Now let's assume I'm J4 in that match:

Top is Teemo vs Akali. Teemo and J4 have the damage and engage but lack the CC. Unless Akali is overextended or low, she's undiveable due to her E and W.
Bot is Lux Cait vs Morde Jinx. There's enough damage and CC but unless they are overextended it's not easy to get in range for the engage, and due to the pulls and slows from Morde (has GA) and the slows and root from Jinx, they are stupidly hard to dive, and if Jinx gets excited, it could turn around into a triple kill.
Mid is Vel vs Qiyana, and on this one there's everything, lots of damage, lots of CC and good engage due to how the lane is set. Qiyana has just 1 form of CC early, a root from River Q, but if under tower it's hard to get it. Little to no defensive mobility of her own due to E being enemy target only and W needs a wall, Bush or river to dash to and it's very short as well.

Basically, camping mid is the best option as it's easiest to gank and dive. J4 is stupidly tanky early so unless CC'd under tower, he can safely dive.

Now let's look from Hecarim's angle:

Teemo vs Akali. Just CC from the engage as main CC, similar to the J4 case, but Akali has her E to chase, so it's easy to kill the Teemo.
Bot lane is full of CC and damage and due to Hecarim's engage style, ganks are easy and so are dives.
Qiyana vs Vel, similar to bot lane, a lot of CC and damage.

So on Hecarim's team, any lane is gankable.

Now, mid is hard camped as it's the only lane J4 can easily gank. There are two ways to alleviate pressure: gank other lanes or counter gank. J4 is 3-0-1, Vel is 1-2-1, Qiyana is 2-2-0 and Hecarim is 0-2-0, so counterganking isn't an option as a 2v2 is not winnable, thus the best option to get your team ahead and alleviate pressure from mid is to gank one of the side lanes as those were in a neutral spot.

That's the correct play, I even told Hecarim to gank a sidelane. What does he do? AfK farm, feeding 2 more kills to J4 and ending with less farm than J4. Lux started coming mid, then they roamed and put the lead from mid into the other lanes.

Am I allowed to blame Hecarim? of course, he refused to gank any lane, not just mine.

My point wasn't "gee, I getz camped and team no help, reprot all, noobs", I don't need anyone to win me my lane, I can do it myself, and for when I can't I try to figure where I screwed up and do better next time. My point was that in lower elos, no matter the reason, a lot of players will refuse to help the whole team, throw because they are Rambo and know best, etc. Had two games in the same day where I already won my lane despite jungle interference, ask my jungler to cover mid for me for a bit so I can recall and get some items and heal up and stop the other mid from taking a plate, I either get no reply or, to quote said Vi "I don't care, not my job to win your lane", like, I'm sorry? After 3 Rek'sai ganks, Lux is 1-4 and 20 cs behind in farm, I won that lane, don't need you to win it. Regardless, I back, get back to lane, Vi comes and steals farm then goes away.

Players will refuse to help, abandon frames completely and farm the opposite side of the jungle, etc. That's my point. You can't balance something with team work in mind when there is little to no team work.

Light BurnerAug 13, 20191 votes

Here since you didnt get my point ill rephrase it, YOU can only play YOUR champ, thats the reality of it. YOU cant play another PLAYER'S champ. This is why YOU do what YOU can to improve and not sit there waiting for someone else to bail YOU out of a shitty situation which YOU got YOURSELF in by doing the things i mentioned in the other post.

IP MasquerenaAug 13, 20191 votes

You sure are helpess....

I don't need a shit head from the jungle to WIN ME MY OWN LANE. I can do it myself, thank you very much. The problem is when I get hard camped because of that reason.

A J4 today told me that straight, 1 gank wasn't enough to stop me from killing his midlaner, so he kept ganking until it was sure that I can't do anything more. My jungler tho? Still buffering.

That's the point you're missing. You think everyone who complains about team mates is bad and can't do anything themselves, and that's wrong on so many levels. You say that there are unwinnable games, and that's, cool and fine, no-one cares, but when almost every game is the same scenario, be it win or loss, my jungler jerks off in a bush to the point where everyone excluding their duo, if present, tells them to help and all we get is either no reply or "I do what I want", there's a problem. I'll get my crayons if ya want, also, repeat after me, maybe you'll understand.

I. DON'T. WANT. MY. JUNGLER. TO. GANK. MY. LANE. EXCLUSIVELY. I. WANT. THEM. TO. GANK. ANY. LANE. NOT. BE. 0-0-0. WHEN. THE. ENEMY. JUNGLER. IS. WITH. 15. KP. AND. STILL. HAVE. MORE. CS. THAN. MY. JUNGLER.

I get camped because I'm the only one creating pressure OR the jg and mid are duo.

Maybe the reason why there's so many issues with team related stuff is exactly that? 1 fed member can't solo carry that reliably unless they are 1-2 good ranks above where they are right now, playing solo carry champs, yet 1 dufus can lead to a team's loss.

Actually, I got an idea. Gods of Riot, you never place me against my own junglers, but grant me this wish, have this dude have the same last 20 junglers I had, make it 25, just to be sure, and place the enemy junglers I've had against him, have him walk in my shoes for once.

Light BurnerAug 13, 20191 votes

Im the helpless one but you're the one complaining about your jungler's actions which you have no control of (which means you're helpless in this aspect) . The irony .

Anyways if you wanna keep losing games because you refuse to adapt to the game you're in and want to play like a monkey go ahead, no one really cares if you're gonna cry about being camped and ganked 11 times if you're gonna be like, "mY jUnGlEr FaUlT".

Summary of my entire point which you sadly couldnt comprehend: -Should your jungler be doing something? Yes -Can you control your jungler to make him do something? No -Can you do something to take pressure off your lane and not be ganked so many times or have it influence the outcome of the lane? Yes -Do you want to do it? Apparently not -So whats the points of complaining about being camped? You're literally asking for it with your aggressive playstyle and acting like a ward is going to make the enemy jungler run from your lane. -"i HaVe ThE hIgHeSt ViSiOn ScOrE oN mY tEaM" - but do you play around that vision? How can i "its called dewarding" So in the end you pressuring with no vision as i said. Just because you put down a ward doesnt give you the right to push and die to a gank if your opponent is clearing your wards but you don't want to learn from your mistakes you continue to push up to the point where you can be ganked 11 times in 12 mins then come on here to blame someone else.

IP MasquerenaAug 14, 20192 votes

I really need the name of that gym you're going to. I can't even fathom to do such mental gymnastics as you.

You keep saying that I miss your point, but you're missing the forest for the trees.

My whole point was about collaboration in yolo que is not something you should go in match expecting to have.

You keep commenting on that one game as if it's the only one game I'm allowed to play and you don't even consider what champions were played, despite the fact that I gave you a whole rundown of all match-ups.

Why don't you talk about the Trundle game where the only thing I needed from him was to cover mid for a bit so I can recall and I get told that "they won't help because they don't want to boost me" despite winning my lane by outfarming the Donger and preventing him from taking plates?

Or what about the Kha'Zix who was asked by the whole team to help and all we get is "I play how I want"? Or the game from yesterday where when J4 first came mid, he was already 7-0-3 while Trollibear was still buffering, half the farm J4 had and 0-0-0.

As a mid/jg main, I know what a laner wants from the jungler and how to deal with situations. My Vi has 65% winrate, my Kayn's at 59%, with around 40 games on each, give or take. My last game of Vi, the Fizz I had mid called me the best jungler he had.

You say I don't know how to use vision or the map, I do, my stats as jungler prove it.

You say that because that one game where I got uberganked it means I don't know how to lane, but let me tell you something mr. Smart pants, hard camping a lane with the intention to take a laner out of the game entirely or even make him rage quit is a super good strategy, abused in high elos and even more effective in the lower elos. Go watch any jungle vid from Virkayu, Skill Capped, Game Leap and many others and you'll notice something: hard camping a lane is the most taught strategy by every one of them simply because it's so damn effective.

I know how to adapt and make use of the map and vision, but just because I complained about one game where I got to be on the receiving end of a strategy I used n times myself, you jump to the conclusion that im bad and refuse to understand anything I say, you read to reply, not to understand, and that's proven by the fact that you refuse to even understand my point, at this point, I even doubt you even know what my point really is, you just assume it's "blames team" which is not, I just used my own games as example.

Light BurnerAug 14, 20191 votes

Im saying there has to be some underlying factor that you were ganked 11 times in 12 mins. Now yea am i only looking at that game yes. Since that was the original topic we were on. If you're referring to the garbage state of solo queue i agree with you but if you're gonna say its impossible to carry these garbage players i cant agree with that.

Moody PAug 11, 20195 votes

the last support getting changed (bard) got strictly utility buffs

oLnPeVernaAug 11, 201947 votes

Didnt soraka just get damage buffs on her Q this patch? While Karma got shied nerfs?

HP CrookshanksAug 11, 20197 votes

Lux is also getting a shield buff next patch

DeνiruchiAug 11, 201918 votes

Which ironically enough, they nerfed specifically her support role because it was too dominant in solo and pro play, to push her back to mid, but a couple of patches later they buff the very same thing they nerfed. Ping pong balance.

cUEthelAug 11, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Which ironically enough, they nerfed specifically her support role because it was too dominant in solo and pro play, to push her back to mid, but a couple of patches later they buff the very same thing they nerfed. Ping pong balance.

it's so stupid... Supports are completely powerless to tilt the game when someone ints

ZephyrDrakeAug 11, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Didnt soraka just get damage buffs on her Q this patch? While Karma got shied nerfs?

oh noes! a champion who got her damage completely destroyed earlier is getting some of it back on the ability that actually requires skill to land! the horror!

General Esdeath Aug 11, 201914 votes

I think the point he's making is that Bard wasn't the last support touched, and it's more than just utility they're touching.

Death by GlamourAug 11, 20193 votes

Yep, was a very strange buff.

Done25Aug 11, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Didnt soraka just get damage buffs on her Q this patch? While Karma got shied nerfs?

Soraka's Q has also had its damage nerfed multiple times in the past.

oLnPeVernaAug 13, 20192 votes

Why does a support need damage?

Daddy AntsAug 11, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=00JGs8zu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-11T00:17:24.887+0000)

the last support getting changed (bard) got strictly utility buff

Imagine getting downvoted for speaking the truth.

Also let's not forget Janna's changes this season.

They reduced her damage for extra utility.

Death by GlamourAug 11, 20196 votes

Soraka got buffed this very patch...

I take it you are talking about the janna change that caused her to max w thus increasing her damage?

D357R0Y3RAug 11, 20192 votes

wtf are you talking about? they hammered janna's W and buffed hard her E to make her going back to be a shield bot

Frontline FuryAug 11, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=00JGs8zu,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-11T00:17:24.887+0000)

the last support getting changed (bard) got strictly utility buffs

Probably because he's THE highest damage support in the game

Moody PAug 11, 20194 votes

not an argument

Teriyaki BukkakeAug 12, 20192 votes

It's almost like a brand name for you to go against what's agreed upon by the community here

Moody PAug 12, 20192 votes

Because you are consistently wrong and I have to correct you

oLnPeVernaAug 13, 20192 votes

Weren't you just wrong though? So who are you to correct anyone?

Moody PAug 13, 20191 votes

I wasn't.

Teriyaki BukkakeAug 14, 20192 votes

Moody mate, you didn't say anything resembling a coherent opinion to start off with. You said bard strictly got utility buffs, when in actuality he got a nerf. The one ability that made him viable later on other than his ulti got nerfed by 40%. No compensation on his scaling elsewhere. Just a flat nerf in an area bard wasn't overpowered in at all.

So you were either trying to imply that "oh no, there was one change that wasn't a damage buff, therefor your point is wrong" Or, you just came onto the boards to post an incorrect statement.

So not only are you wrong, but you're again fighting the community.

Moody PAug 14, 20191 votes

He got buffed. Read the changes again.

Teriyaki BukkakeAug 15, 20192 votes

Bard got nerfed.

Highlight the buff please

AirKingNeoAug 12, 20191 votes

Because you guys are consistently wrong and thus it is one's moral obligation to correct you people.

Teriyaki BukkakeAug 14, 20192 votes

"You people" Being the overwhelming majority of the dedicated LoL community? Ya know, the people who actually read patch notes, keep up with the Meta, and understand the state of gameplay?

You're trying to correct the people who spend the most time understanding the game?

Oh and please do point out where this guys post was wrong, because I'm sure we would all love to hear it

AirKingNeoAug 15, 20191 votes

The league boards do not represent the entire dedicated LoL community.

Moody P also reads the patch notes, keeps up with the meta, and understands the state of gameplay better than most people here.

Moody P already pointed out where he's wrong. The last support change is utility.

Teriyaki BukkakeAug 15, 20192 votes

But that doesn't change the point OP was making.

The patches are always overwhelmingly damage oriented.

If he's trying to say the OP is wrong, then he is wrong. If hes simply trying to say "Oh there was actually one utility change" then he's ignoring the OPs post.

So either way, his comment is subject to everyone criticizing him. You telling us we're wrong, despite us being right, means nothing if you two aren't actually addressing the post or any of it's points. Simply stating something with no conclusion or supporting statement is useless, and contributes nothing, and results in this very scenario, where people have to discuss anything but the post because one person went on a tangent, or didn't explain what they were saying.

Moody fits in the latter.