I'm not sure how they'll do this final game, but boy have they stepped up. That team that lost against UoL, that team that played so inconsistently, they're gone. This Fnatic is a new Fnatic, and they're ready to take on worlds if you ask me.
PoisonedTea2 votesI am a little conflicted Fnatic does have two Korean players. But on the other, it is a surprise it is kinda nice to see the Korean scene not be so dominate. Fnatic is proving their prose that is a light that has not shined in EU for awhile (sense season 2 I would say).
The Bíg Ticket8 votesLol and the whole american LCS is full of non NA players...
EU actually did great in S3 at worlds where both Fnatic and Gambit advanced to the quarterfinals after getting 1st (Fnatic) and 2nd (Gambit) place in their group right before Samsung Ozone which had the Samsung White Roster that won the S4 Worlds 1 year later with the exception of Dade mid instead of Pawn back then. Fnatic even got to the Semifinals.
PoisonedTea3 votes[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=O8ft4A4W,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-05-10T00:42:37.888+0000)
Lol and the whole american LCS is full of non NA players...
EU actually did great in S3 at worlds where both Fnatic and Gambit advanced to the quarterfinals after getting 1st (Fnatic) and 2nd (Gambit) place in their group right before Samsung Ozone which had the Samsung White Roster that won the S4 Worlds 1 year later with the exception of Dade mid instead of Pawn back then. Fnatic even got to the Semifinals.
they didn't look good in season 3 they looked better then NA both looked like shit in season 3.
The Bíg Ticket3 votesLol have you even watched Season 3?
Fnatic beat Samsung Ozone which was the complete Samsung White team that won the 2014 World Championship. Looper, Imp, Mata, Dandy and Dade instead of Pawn back then. Fnatic went 2-0 against them in the groupstage.
Gambit went 1-1 against them in the groups and then won the tiebreaker after they were both tied for 2nd place. So 2-1 overall.
Fnatic then beat Cloud 9 in the quarterfinals with 2-1 while Gambit lost to Najin 1-2.
The third team from EU, Lemondogs finished third in a group with SKT and OMG but still above TSM who went 2-6.
So yes NA looked like shit in Season 3 but EU definitely didn't. Having 1 team in the top 4 and another one in the top 8 is not shit.
Risurin1 votes[{quoted}](name=Danielas Kitten,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=O8ft4A4W,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-10T01:17:31.267+0000)
Lol have you even watched Season 3?
Fnatic beat Samsung Ozone which was the complete Samsung White team that won the 2014 World Championship. Looper, Imp, Mata, Dandy and Dade instead of Pawn back then. Fnatic went 2-0 against them in the groupstage. Gambit went 1-1 against them in the groups and then won the tiebreaker after they were both tied for 2nd place. So 2-1 overall.
Fnatic then beat Cloud 9 in the quarterfinals with 2-1 while Gambit lost to Najin 1-2. The third team from EU, Lemondogs finished third in a group with SKT and OMG but still above TSM who went 2-6.So yes NA looked like shit in Season 3 but EU definitely didn't. Having 1 team in the top 4 and another one in the top 8 is not shit.
I think what he meant was that, while EU Definitely had a way better showing, they were nowhere near a contender for the title, and were jsut outclassed by the top 2 like everyone else. And honestly, while a good achievement for that Fnatic rooster to had eliminated Samsung in group stage, that team was nowhere near the level that team was a year later, even if they only changed 1 player (dont forget meta change, people get better, new strategies, people choke, etc), so i wouldnt say they beat the 2014 winner, as in fact that team would proceed to eliminate Fnatic in the year they won (although this could be jsut an example of the inconsistency EU used to have).
I mean Vulcun, the team that would get relegated and disband 6 months later, also went 1-1 against Ozone. You can take Elements also as an example, they were 1st in EU in summer 2014, and didnt even made the playoff in spring 2015.
anyway i believe Gambit at the following iem was probably the "last time EU had a good showing internationally" until this year MSI. But in the end all this doesnt really matter, as it is in the past. What matter right now is that EU, is clearly able to compete against Korea, because i belive H2K and UoL can be more then a match for Fnatic, and that team was the closest to beat a korean team (the indisputed #1 on top of that) anyone have been since i believe 2011.
I jsut hope NA can keep up, and that they learn how you shut down TSM 1-dimensional play style. It will force TSM to improve, or we will see different, and hopefully more flexible and more adaptive teams at World (Cloud9 with their new midlaner look capable of claiming back their LCS title).
In the meantime (until world at least), its EU bragging right to say we suck lol :'( pls mercy.
The Bíg Ticket3 votesWell Vulcun went 3-5 in that group with Gambit, Fnatic and Samsung Ozone though which cleary showed they weren't on the same level. Fnatic went 7-1 and Gambit and Samsung both 5-3. Yes Fnatic (and EU in general) have always been pretty inconsistent but they were always respected by Korean teams cause unlike teams from NA they often beat them in international tournaments. S4 worlds was the first time EU was really outclassed.
Risurin1 votesoften isnt totally true either,there is a reason KR has been the dominating region, with CN slightly behind them. EU teams have on multiple occassion show they are able to beat KRs, but also showed that even wildcard team can defeat them. I think this unpredictability of how good they are going to be, is what make KRs interested in their play.
I think as of KR view on NA as a whole, its not entirely false, but they still show a lot of respect to C9/TSM/CLG, and while TSM/CLG is mostly because they are old organizations in league, Cloud9's respect is for their strategic play they can pull off, even from a deficit, i would even argue that its something most regions would agree, Cloud9 has the ability to win games against every region. (although this season so far they havent look too hot, but i think they can bounce back to #1 with their new midlaner).
I would say that in most of S4 EU just didnt show up at all.
This season, i felt that EU/NA might be close to KR/CN, after the mass exile to china, and while it seems to be true for EU, NA has some extra work to do still; although i would like to believe that TSM performance wasnt necessary representative of what NA is capable of this season, summer split/world will tell.
Note : i forgot to mention the lemondog/TSM group, If i recall correctly, TSM, was third place, until they saw there was absolutely no way for them to beat the teams that ended being 1st and 2nd on that group, one of them ended up winning the tournament, so they started to troll their game (example: Reginald ADC teemo), whereas LD still tried to at least have an half decent score, so while EU did have a better showing that year, it wasnt at all because of LD.
Gaxx D1 votesTSM trolled/experimented/played for fun whatever you call it the last game, that was against one of wild card teams (can't even remember what team was that, I think GG.eu or something like that?). They definitely were trying to win against Lemondogs and lost that game (second one, the first was won by TSM). Anyway, even though Lemondogs came out as a first team from EU, they were definitely the weakest one, with absolutely no experience on a big stage. Regarding season 4, noone argues (at least noone who's not biased) that EU played very poorly.
Risurin1 votesMy point was that, LD finishing 3rd in that group wasnt representative of anything, since tsm started to troll when they saw they werent going out of that group. + Its hard to argue that the team that finish first in a region, isnt the strongest of that region, although it was their first international experience, and its was against SKT and OMG lol.
Gaxx D1 votesI've actually made a mistake, LD came out 2nd, it was Fnatic that was first. Anyway, it was Ozone who didn't leave groups, but was 1st ranked in Korea, while SKT was ranked 3rd. Najin was 2nd. And OMG was ranked 1st, while SHRC 2nd, yet Royal Club beat OMG. My point is, that even if you come out of your region as a higher seed, it doesn't necessarily mean you're the best from that region. LD had 0 international experience, and so they didn't know how to play agaisnt international competition, even though they found a way to beat EU teams. Gambit and Fnatic were considered stronger teams from EU, than LD, even though Gambit was 3rd seed.
Risurin1 votesin S3, the way asian teams would qualify was vastly different from what LCS did. for instance i believe najin qualified that year by winning winter split, about 8 months prior of world championship, so its reasonable to think that a higher seeding team, isnt necessary the better team of the moment. Meanwhile in the LCS, top 3 of the summer split (right before world) get to play at the world championship, so the top3 team of the moment for both NA/EU get to go at world, and while it was obvious that the team with more international background would perform better at an international event, i would think their seeding at that time was more representative of how they compare to the other team of their region.
I too forgot that fnatic have ended up first in split almost every split, except last summer, for the longest time, and i guess it do make sense that fnatic was just the better EU showing up that year.
Gaxx D1 votesWhile Fnatic was nowhere near SKT's level at that time, you can't be more wrong in saying that they were outclassed by another team playing in the finals - SHRC. Yes, the series ended 3;1 in favor of Royal Club, but those were actually really close games. Fnatic didn't get crushed by them. Again, SKT's game was something different, but places 2-4 were pretty darn close. And last time I checked a TOP4 team in the world can definitely be called a contender for the title.
Risurin1 votes[{quoted}](name=Gaxx D,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=O8ft4A4W,comment-id=000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2015-05-10T15:56:36.689+0000)
While Fnatic was nowhere near SKT's level at that time, you can't be more wrong in saying that they were outclassed by another team playing in the finals - SHRC. Yes, the series ended 3;1 in favor of Royal Club, but those were actually really close games. Fnatic didn't get crushed by them. Again, SKT's game was something different, but places 2-4 were pretty darn close. And last time I checked a TOP4 team in the world can definitely be called a contender for the title.
The problem is that if you arent close to the 1st place, then its hard to argue you are a contender for the title. Top4 means they were one of the better teams of the tournament, but contender is a bit too much i think. + Najin went to 5 games against SKT so i think their end result may be more a result of having to face skt before the final (i remember people saying that was more of a final, then the actual 3-0 stomp final).
I guess that Fnatic team may have been on par with CH's best, but not really contender for the title.
64931067_DEL3 votesSamsung Galaxy Ozone with 5 of the best player in season 4 (Dade, Imp, Mata, Dandy and Looper) was the only team has to ff in the 2014 WC. And in the game they met FNC, Dade got outplayed by XPeke so badly.
Gaxx D4 votesYou're so pathetic it's not even funny. First you kept talking about Fnatic "cheese" against TSM (while there was none). TSM didn't leave groups, but you still kept going on about how NA is somewhat better than EU (for whatever reason). Now you're denying EU achievements (and Europe has achievements they can be proud of for 3 seasons, including multiple IEM championships and ending 3 world championships at top spots). You've gotta either be retarded or in a horrible, horrible denial. Just stop comparing NA to EU, it's downright pointless.
PoisonedTea1 votes[{quoted}](name=Gaxx D,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=O8ft4A4W,comment-id=0001000000000002,timestamp=2015-05-10T02:50:49.329+0000)
You're so pathetic it's not even funny. First you kept talking about Fnatic "cheese" against TSM (while there was none). TSM didn't leave groups, but you still kept going on about how NA is somewhat better than EU (for whatever reason). Now you're denying EU achievements (and Europe has achievements they can be proud of for 3 seasons, including multiple IEM championships and ending 3 world championships at top spots). You've gotta either be retarded or in a horrible, horrible denial. Just stop comparing NA to EU, it's downright pointless.
It was and still is cheese.
if you look at how the group stage went they only won one game over TSM and made it to quarters. That was the game they played VS TSM. In fact ever other game in groups except maybe the SKT game you could say they lost worst then TSM.
No they didn't look good in groups and won off cheese. Enless your saying is EU Cass top lane is a normal thing. I will give you a bone, It was well thought out cheese but still cheese all the same, You can eat on that.
I don't why a bother talking to you, you already made up you mind without looking at the facts.
Ulquiorra9954 votesCass top was actually played a fair bit competitively. TSM should have prepared for that instead of swallowing hook, line and sinker when Gnar was open. So no, it's not cheese.
Gaxx D5 votesThe facts are that Cass top IS being played top and that was not first anyone ever heard of it. If you want to blame something, blame entirety of NA LCS for being unable to come up with their own picks, having least champion diversity, always being behind on flexible picks and unable to play against something they don't usually play. Top lane is not 6 champions. Also, like I said in other topic, going with your sore loser logic, any and every team in LPL and LMS would "cheese", because they're picking champions that aren't play in NA. It's not Fnatic's fault, that NA is so boring and predictable with their pick and ban phase. Besides since TSM is "so adapt" at lane swapping (not that they're doing it properly or have any clue why they're doin it), they coulda lane swapped. Gnar is a better 1v2 champion than Cass (and Cass needs to be able to poison her lane opponent if you don't want her stacking her passive for na hour). TSM coulda played better against your so called "cheese", the fact they didn't just shows, that they're horrible when it comes to decision making and dealing with something new for them. And that's not a mark of world class team. They showed, yet again, that against a well prepared, tought competition at international stage (I'm not belittling their victory at IEM, they won fair and square, but they were playing one of the bottom teams in LPL at that time who was hit and miss, and didn't even get to play against GE Tigers - who didn't do well themselves anyway). So the only fact is, that in your comments you're showing, how much of a butthurt TSM fan you are. That's all there to is.
Earl Eulrich2 votesshould have gone with xerath for the last game instead of ahri, would have won the series :/ still, they played incredible well and if they continue this EU will finally be a contender fro the title at worlds again this year.
Mat7itan1 votesI was about to type it's not over yet, but then reignover went to far and died.
Earl Eulrich1 votesthe game had been over when they failed the second attempt to make sth. happen toplane. If they could have kept their cool and just wait for their midgame to kick in they would have won, but they made the common mistake and got baited too hard by nunu, unfortunatelly. Incredible good game from Bengi though, pretty much solocarried SKT there.
Mat7itan1 votesYeah it was still probably over, but had they won that fight they could have easily pulled themselves back into a position where they could win. It would not have been easy to do, but it would have given them a chance.
Sage Idallian2 votesHonestly, Fnatic looked like shit over the last couple days. I'm glad to see they showed up today. Excellent series from them, Europe should be proud of these guys.
Godaren1 votesAs a huge Na fan I am just glad someone can beat the koreans gl in g5
Mat7itan2 votesIf TSM couldn't win then I wanted fnc to. Sadly it looks like SKT is going to now but that's fine with me so long as SKT wins the whole thing.
Chromatic Eagle1 votesThey played their hearts out.
BRBGTGBOWFLEX1 votesI really admired Fnatic. They played amazingly well. It was really cool to watch them toe to toe it with SKT, even though I felt that earlier SKT games were a bit disrespectful (like buying avarice blade).
Even when SKT was taking things seriously, I don't think they got the 1-sided games they thought they would get.
