watching both team trading top/bot secondary tower without any action is very boring. watching 20 minutes of farming and 1 teamfight means inhib + baron then a final push to the nexus is boring, watching a single wave of superminion chunking a nexus tower to half hp is boring.
LCS is not fun to watch anymore, no more standard lane, no more in lane trades, no more outplays, just a farm fest and stat war.
Last Fizz NA3 votesi disagree. Laneswap is one of the best things about LCS. Makes the game very interesting. Without lane swaps you just have a boring lane vs lane game where picks and bans then become far too limited and champion diversity suffers.
Left Hook Larry1 votesChampion diversity is already suffering now as it is. Look at top lane for example. The only champs viable (besides the op champs like fiora/gp) are champs that can handle being gold starved due to lane swaps, which are usually tanks.
And I rather see how pro players 1v1 / 2v2 bot rather than double jg/lane swap because they're too scared to take risks
YCitizenSnipsY2 votesTo repeat what monte said. If you think champion diversity is bad now, imagine how much worse it would be if there was no way to dodge a losing lane. Basically the game would be even more decided in champ select than it already is. And baring a huge experience gap, lanes would be decied by champions and not players.
Left Hook Larry1 votesA bad matchup doesn't automatically equal a losing lane. This is pro play remember. People often think winning lane is winning game, which is definitely not true. Champs like Jax might have a bad early game, but they can scale and win the game off late game fights
YCitizenSnipsY2 votesYes it does, thats the exact reason pro players are lane swapping constantly. You obviously don't follow pro play that much. OK they are pros, and so are the people they are up against. And outside of something like ROX vs Afeeca, no one is gonna go standard lanes against a losing match up.
I mean even with your own Jax example, you realize basically Darshan and Werlyb were the only ones playing him. Even Impact doesn't play him and he is the reason their is an SKT Jax. Lane swaps are happening to avoid losing match ups, because competitve has gotten to the point where unless you are against a team like DIG or REN who cant close out matches, playing out a losing lane basically give the game away.
Left Hook Larry1 votesThe reason they are lane swapping is because they don't want to risk getting outplayed 2v2 or 1v1. It's much easier to just swap lanes and afk farm for the first 20min.
DIG or REN who cant close out matches, playing out a losing lane basically give the game away.
Like I said, it has very little to do with bad matchups. It's just much easier for them to lane swap and afk farm for the first 20min. It requires no risk. Dragons aren't worth to fight over and 2v2 requires you to outplay. If Riot at least made dragons worth fighting for there would be less lane swaps and more exciting games
iamleburk1 votesYou realize champs like Jinx, Twitch, and Vayne would all be reduced to nothing and champs like Caitlyn, Jhin, and Mf would all be OP right?
I mean you already see this a little bit, with people not picking those champions/picking those champions because of the possibility of getting a standard lane, but when its only standard lanes, the pro meta would be absolutely horrible
Left Hook Larry1 votesYou realize champs like Jinx, Twitch, and Vayne would all be reduced to nothing
You do realize that these champs are already almost never picked?
champs like Caitlyn, Jhin, and Mf would all be OP right?
Not at all. Pro players know how to play safe and farm.
BTW if this is true, then how come in challenger these champs aren't considered OP? Challenger players are basically near pro players and in challenger you don't have lane swaps? Logic is flawed.
/picking those champions because of the possibility of getting a standard lane
Caitlyn is just a strong pick in general throughout the game. Jhin is still being experimented with and MF isn't picked at all
iamleburk1 votesI'm more referencing when MF was good. Point is, lane bullies would see a massive spike in competitive play, many becoming pick and ban. Most challengers in NA are OTPs, but still you definitely see a lot of lane bullies.
And Challenger players are not pro, they do not have the same ability to play around your lane bullies in getting them ahead and punishing the weak lane for the slightest mistake. Good teams will always know how to snowball off of those small lane advantages. Just watch Jin Air vs CJ game 3 from this morning if you want an example of how good teams deal with Jinx's weak lane.
Left Hook Larry1 votesMost challengers in NA are OTPs
Disagree and you have no proof of this
but still you definitely see a lot of lane bullies.
Maybe now because it is an early game meta. But even then lane bullies don't dominate in challenger
And Challenger players are not pro, they do not have the same ability to play around your lane bullies in getting them ahead and punishing the weak lane for the slightest mistake.
This is the dumbest shit i've seen in a while. Most challengers can and do hold their own against pro players. The difference is teamplay and decision making is better with pro players. In terms of laning, mechanics, and snowballing challenger players are identical I'd say.
Good teams will always know how to snowball off of those small lane advantages
And these good teams will also know how to drag the game out to where the lane bullies become useless
Just watch Jin Air vs CJ game 3 from this morning if you want an example of how good teams deal with Jinx's weak lane.
Watch Immortals vs dig to see how good teams handle being behind.
iamleburk1 votesI have friends in challenger. It's mostly OTPs like Annie bot and Heisendong or Pro players.
Lane bullies are extremely dominant in solo queue. Remember when Soraka was OP for a while? But barely saw any competitive play? Because that shit doesn't work in competitive (and before you say IMT, that's actually the way most people say they are going to lose once they go international).
Challenger's do okay vs pros, watch pro streams they are mostly carrying their team vs challengers.
And these good teams will also know how to drag the game out to where the lane bullies become useless
lol maybe in NALCS games that'll happen. In other regions they actually know how to snowball off of small leads. If they pressure that lane correctly, you aren't coming back in unless you are playing some type of OP champion like Kog'maw.. and even then it's a maybe, Kog was barely used in Korea when he was OP solely for that reason.
Watch Immortals vs dig to see how good teams handle being behind.
Are you trolling?
Left Hook Larry1 votesI have friends in challenger. It's mostly OTPs like Annie bot and Heisendong or Pro players.
Cool? That's not a reliable source lmfao. "oh my friend told me" isn't even close to being a reliable source
Lane bullies are extremely dominant in solo queue
Disagree and win rates say otherwise
and before you say IMT, that's actually the way most people say they are going to lose once they go international
Oh so it doesn't work... besides the top 2 teams in NA being able to pull it off in matches (CLG, Immortals). I don't give a fuck about what other silvers think will happen to Immortals once they go international. That's a different debate
Challenger's do okay vs pros, watch pro streams they are mostly carrying their team vs challengers.
Definitely not always. Yes pros are obv better, but not by far. Like I said, in solo que they are close in level. When it comes to team work and playing a 5's that's a different story. I mean pretty much all the best players were solo q beasts before they went pro (faker, rush, etc.)
lol maybe in NALCS games that'll happen.
Man you really are garbage for saying some stupid shit like that. Not even going to bother. Like if this was true, then all of SKT's champion pool would be lane bullies.
Are you trolling?
Immortals is a good team who was behind and handled it well for a comeback. Are you trolling?
Enjoy silver border, EU garbage. Will be humiliated at worlds just like you were in S4.
iamleburk1 votesLmao you're argument is "hur durr you're bad and stupid how can you understand competitive I'm so much starter even though I can't be bothered to read the big (NA) next to you're name"
My whole point is that lane bullies aren't OP in competitive right now because of laneswaps. You're argument was a comeback in a game between IMT and Dignitas for fucks sake. Yes comebacks happen, but early game advantage would be too much with standard lanes.
I gave you an example of a weak lane being pressured even in a laneswap scenario. It can still happen, but it's not as easy anymore.
And this is completely ignoring all the amazing variations you can have on a laneswap. If you actually paid attention to the game, it gets very interesting the different openings a team will do. Well maybe not if you only watch NA games, TSM literally got outrotated by Renegades in their laneswap. CLG usually does cool ones though.
Actually maybe that's why you think laneswaps are stupid. Because the only laneswap NA teams know how to do is trade a tower. Their getting better nowadays though, but it's still dumbfounding to see the mistakes certain high tier teams make coming into a laneswap scenario. If you don't believe me because you need some excuse to right me off, just listen to the fucking casters. Or are they stupid silver scrubs too?
I agree IMT is a good team, but making a comeback vs Dig isn't impressive. It isn't a good example, it's like saying "Bjerg is a god for winning lane vs you". Obviously it's true but not because of the evidence you give.
Oh great a fucking NA fanboy over here. Talk to me when we get a team to fucking Semis first. God you're the type of douche that makes me hesitate to say "NA improved this split" because you're going to come out of the wood work being a complete asshole about how whatever overhyped NA team is going to win worlds or some dumb shit like that.
Guyy Fieri2 votesWhile yes, a bad matchup doesn't guarantee a losing lane, pro level play is really the only realm where players can truly take advantage of bad lane matchups properly so the bad lane matchup snowballs into more. In the LCS, having the ability to lane swap does two things. It hides that bad matchup so that there's some safety for a little while and it actually progresses the game towards the mid game much quicker. I always prefer watching mid/late game over early game. Team fights are so fun to watch and lane swap games being that on quicker
Left Hook Larry1 votespro level play is really the only realm where players can truly take advantage of bad lane matchups properly so the bad lane matchup snowballs into more
If it was that big then you would see pro players only playing lane bullies when climbing in solo q and winning 100% of their games. In really it doesn't work like this.
I always prefer watching mid/late game over early game. Team fights are so fun to watch and lane swap games being that on quicker
You can have this without lane swaps. All we have now is BS 20 minute tower trades
iamleburk1 votesLaneswaps are part of the strategy in League. How to laneswap effectively, the variations you can make and how the enemy responds to those variations is extremely complex and is akin to the opening moves in Chess. Laneswaps aren't the problem in this boring meta, it's more an issue that other objectives aren't actually good and slightly because itemization is a little wonky right now (Maw is OP, tank itemization is OP on certain champions, a lot of the jungle enchantments are not viable).
ScriptBrand2 votesagree. laneswap is boring af to watch. they could save an hour per day and just start the teams out with their top tier one down and the enemy bot tier one down
YCitizenSnipsY2 votes
The Deckowner1 votescopycat*[zombie-nunu-bummed]*
TurquoiseYoshi2 votesI love how people always include the "20 minutes of farm." You know what that is? Standard lanes. They get the towers and then they move back to their normal laning with some extra gold and map control on one side. Hell, there are literally no changes for the mid lane. If it's that boring, then literally everything in the early game is boring for you.
Kaitri1 votes1 wave of super minions kills a whole nexus tower not just a half.
but riot already got a great idea how to deal with "lcs being boring" in summer split they stream 2 games at the same time so you can only watch 1. so they made the games 50% less boring.
"we at riotgames have fun" :DDDDDDDD
The Deckowner2 votesi only watch the replays, because I can skip boring shit
Kaitri2 votesyou mean the whole games since season 6?
Brimaz The King1 votesI would rather see standard lanes with action than lame lane swaps while nothing happends for 20 mins. I stop watching LCS this year bc of that.
anonymous1191 votesWhen you add breaks, analysts desk, commentators, champ select then 14-20 minutes of pve during lane swaps it is extraordinarily boring to watch. I understand what people are saying about it adding strategic depth, but there has to be a better way. They need more incentives for early game skirmishes not having every person avoid their counterpart as if they have a disease.
