RIP C9

IncrediPhiLL·Nov 28, 2017·1 votes·890 views

12 Comments

Miror BNov 28, 20172 votes

I personally like the move, if only because it finally allows us to gauge TSM's jungle choices. If Sven goes back to his carry mentality and plays even slightly more aggressive, then we can definitively say that it's the coaches of tsm that kill their junglers and not the players.

anonymous119Nov 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I personally like the move, if only because it finally allows us to gauge TSM's jungle choices. If Sven goes back to his carry mentality and plays even slightly more aggressive, then we can definitively say that it's the coaches of tsm that kill their junglers and not the players.

I don't think it's as simple as saying if he starts playing aggressive again he'll be successful. At msi and early summer his blind aggressive invades were what was losing tsm the early game.

I personally think that the tsm players just struggle to deal with pressure of playing at worlds so there's a very good chance that regular season sven on c9 will out perform worlds tsm sven.

Miror BNov 28, 20171 votes

See, I kinda beg to differ. For the longest time TSM has had top-tier (not the best in the world, but some of the best in their region) junglers only to turn them into the same arbitrary wardbots who get flamed year after year after year. Not only that, but these junglers haven't really been able to prove their skills within their own region afterwards (with amazing moving to origen and santorin being in challenger). While I'm not saying that Sven can and should be a god-tier jungler on C9 now, if he shows the same passive tendencies that he did on TSM with roughly the same circumstances (meh-tier toplaner, top-tier-for-NA mid, top-tier botlane) then we can definitively say that he didn't know how to play in his environment as opposed to the general belief of many that TSM just doesn't know how to effectively use their junglers properly.

anonymous119Nov 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

See, I kinda beg to differ. For the longest time TSM has had top-tier (not the best in the world, but some of the best in their region) junglers only to turn them into the same arbitrary wardbots who get flamed year after year after year. Not only that, but these junglers haven't really been able to prove their skills within their own region afterwards (with amazing moving to origen and santorin being in challenger). While I'm not saying that Sven can and should be a god-tier jungler on C9 now, if he shows the same passive tendencies that he did on TSM with roughly the same circumstances (meh-tier toplaner, top-tier-for-NA mid, top-tier botlane) then we can definitively say that he didn't know how to play in his environment as opposed to the general belief of many that TSM just doesn't know how to effectively use their junglers properly.

I don't think the forum coaches that we are will ever fully know what calls are made behind the scenes. The vast majority of the time that sven was on tsm his problem wasn't that he was too passive it was that he was too aggressive. In spring during his first year on tsm he had the most deaths of any jungler because of constant botched invades. This got fixed during summer 2016 tsm, but then started coming back during 2017 spring/msi/summer.

It's possible that in trying to fix his bad invades the coaching staff went too far in getting him to play passive. I'd argue that this happened to wildturtle when they tried to tone down his flash forward play style. Members of tsm have commented while streaming that they would often tell sven to pick more aggressive jungle picks and that the decision to stick to tank junglers was his own call.

I think for sven to be successful he needs his solo laners to be dominant. Sven looks lost when playing from behind. jensen is a good fit for that play style, but c9's rookie top laner is a massive unknown at this point.

Miror BNov 28, 20171 votes

I tend to agree with that comparison to wildturtle, and will also add that perhaps TSM as a whole just doesn't know how to play around having aggressive players in general (hence why a few of DL's plays in which he's deep in enemy territory trying to make a 2v3 outplay look weird on the outside). One good thing that C9 has going for them is that they're at least on par roster-wise with the rest of the league, as quite a few teams are starting rookie and/or "new" toplaners (new in the sense that they recently acquired them), and their mid/botlane core has shown an ability to carry in the past. In a way, he's gone from a team where the jg is/has always been the "first to blame" to one where being average is okay and anything beyond that is a giant positive. It's why their match vs Echo Fox (the team I'm "technically" rooting for only because of the way their roster is built and not because I'm a fan of players or anything like that) will be telling, as we'll be getting a so called "Litmus test" of what to expect out of him.

Ale non è maleDec 1, 20171 votes

It's not even a matter of coaching. TSM rely on their strong lanes to win at domestic level, but after bad results at past International competitions, has acknowledged that their "win lane-win game" strategy does not work at international level, and so they try to orce themselves into changing style and becoming a "metà oriented" team, which hilariously backfire because it does not fit their individual players style and make them perform at a lower level than their potential (which is lower than what TSM/NA fanboys think is anyway) and when opponent teams match their meta read or break the meta with new picks they get outclassed by a team playing at 100% of their strength and beat them in every aspect...then they find a scapegoat (either a coach or some player), and the rinse and repeat the while cycle, usually with same results because they haven't tackled the fundamental issues of their below expectations performances

BubbaVNov 28, 20172 votes

now i dont like c9 lol

TheSequelsRBadNov 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

now i dont like c9 lol

Same.

captaincomando1Nov 28, 20171 votes

same

Walmart PornNov 30, 20172 votes

Took the worst player on tsm smh. granted i wasnt even going to watch lcs this year but still... how much did tsm have to pay c9 off to take their garbage

captaincomando1Nov 28, 20171 votes

yeah. They are doomed... Who replace Impact?

GeminiRuneNov 28, 20171 votes

Replacing Impact is Licorice: a top laner whose had competitive exposure through C9 Challenger and EUnited in previous years. It will be his first starting role on a LCS team, effectively making him a rookie to the stage.