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This All Star Team Makes No Sense

IncrediPhiLL··4 votes·1,177 views

I know it’s supposed to be fun and all, but how do we expect NA to be successful with a middle of the pack JG, a middle of the pack support, and a failing mid laner?

I’d like to know who the 12 year old fanboys were that voted this squad in. I understand some of the top talent may not have been interested in going, but Aphro and Mike Yueng should not be here at all considering there are 3 people in their respective roles who are better.

Bjergson being voted over Jensen after the national embarrassment TSM put on display only 2 months ago and Jensen consistently outplaying Bjerg in the regular season is mind boggling. When are these fanboys going to understand that he is simply not that good...

Again, all fun and games, but I’d still like to see an NA team at all stars that actually represents our best. 3 TSM players when TSM is a failure just doesn’t make sense to me. Fanboys have united and destroyed the voting system.

Sneaky can’t carry TSM. Period.

12 Comments

III BAKURYU III 2 votes

As I said, "Don't vote any TSM members into the All-Star event" they don't deserve to be voted in.

Takaray2 votes

Jensen and Bjer are equivalent, they are just better at different things. Mechanically Bjer it's better, he plays better in low stress environments such as regular Splits and such, however Jensen CLEARLY can handle pressure much better than Bjer, if shit hits the fan Jensen is the man to have. This in my opinion is a matter of styles, Bjer plays not to lose, hence why in low stress he performs well and can get away with no pro-activity, however Jensen plays to win, this meas more mistakes to be exploited in a low stress environment but more possibilities to exploit mistakes made during high stress environments. This is supported by what each player has excel during their careers, Bjer clearly outperforms Jensen in the LCS, consistently delivering for his team, but crashing and burning in World every single time. Jensen on the other hand is good in the LCS but not better than Bjer but at Worlds? Clearly the best NA has to offer, this pattern will continue, TSM will win NA LCS but C9 will again perform better at Worlds, this will be in no small part due to their respective Mid Laners.

Hardstuck G41 votes

Based on the meta, Aphro is potentially one of the greatest supports in the West. Bjergsen is also by FAR better than Jensen. Jensen has a high K/D because he plays as a heavy carry for C9, whereas Bjergsen was on the back burner for DLift for most of the Summer split. Frankly, Hauntzer, Bjerg, Sneaky, and Aphro all deserve their spot. Mike could've easily been replaced with Contractz or Xmithie, and it would have been an infinitely better team, but that's my only complaint. And either way, Mike is easily the most liked Jungler, and there's a ton of hype around him after a breakout rookie split. So yeah, this may not be the STRONGEST NA team, but it's certainly got potential.

IncrediPhiLL1 votes

Anyone who argues Bjerg is better than Jensen needs a reality check. There is not a single stat that points to that.

Jensen is better in lane, supported by stats. Jensen is better out of lane, supported by stats. Jensen is better on a national stage, supported by record and stats. The head to head record is essentially the same, supported by record and stats. TSM can have 3 imports and offer top talent the most money, but Bjerg still cant succeed. You admit yourself that Jensen means more to his team, but this is also supported by stats.

If Jensen played for TSM, they’d probably have a legitimate chance to win worlds. Bjerg simply cannot carry a team and his team cannot carry him.

anonymous1191 votes

{quoted}

Anyone who argues Bjerg is better than Jensen needs a reality check. There is not a single stat that points to that.

Jensen is better in lane, supported by stats. Jensen is better out of lane, supported by stats. Jensen is better on a national stage, supported by record and stats. The head to head record is essentially the same, supported by record and stats. TSM can have 3 imports and offer top talent the most money, but Bjerg still cant succeed. You admit yourself that Jensen means more to his team, but this is also supported by stats.

If Jensen played for TSM, they’d probably have a legitimate chance to win worlds. Bjerg simply cannot carry a team and his team cannot carry him.

Jensen is an amazing player, but it's disingenuous to gloss over all of his flaws while trying to pitch him as the best mid playing in NA.

Jensen has never won a split even after joining the team that had the most split wins of any organization at the time he joined.

Jensen has choked at critical moments throughout his career.

Jesnsen trades off being lane dominant by being a weaker roamer than many other mids in NA.

From the voice comms I've heard jensen is no where near the vocal player that bjergson is.

I'm not going to pretend tsm as a whole hasn't shit the bed internationally far too many times. I know the popular forum theory is to say that the only common player through out all of tsm's failures is bjergson so he's to blame.

I disagree. TSM has pretty much documented what went wrong every year and for the most part it's the same problem with communication each year. Players like dyrus, santorin, biofrost, wildturtle... etc all went completely silent during world's matches. It was more of an organizational failure which I hope they've fixed with their new coaching staff.

The tsm having the most money in NA fan theory really needs to die. Tsm was rich by esports standards when the other owners were just random people struggling to stay afloat. Tsm is one of the few organizations not backed by NBA teams, venture capitalists, or billionaire investors. Tsm would never win a bidding war with team liquid.

dakm1021 votes

But you can't say all of that without calling into question bjergsen's style of shotcalling. he is not a naturally born leader, it was a role he was forced into by Regi since Regi himself was the shotcaller of the team. And if you look at the style ever since bjerg joined they have played a much more passive late game style (the one exception MAYBE being summer 2016 with doublelift adding his shotcalling in) and I feel like that is very important. The idea that Bjerg being more vocal makes him better is not entirely true since I think we can all say that he isn't exactly Hai. He isn't someone who knows what to do to get out of any situation and will choose to make the risky play. He would much rather choose the safer play which makes their team generally really good when ahead (in NA at least) but when they get behind or caught off guard they seem completely blindsided. If you watch a video from Thoorin you can see him mention the fact that most players that Regi hires and even coaches he hires are generally not the loud aggressive people who will make changes and tell the team to take risks. They will instead retreat into a shell if they start facing defeat which we almost saw completely in spring 2016 and which is what we see whenever TSM starts slumping. they always seem to slump when they try the same safe strategy over and over that is centered around the late game and just waiting to win a teamfight. I feel like they just need to get some people who are really aggressive and in your face about what the team needs to improve and have the others be receptive to it. TSM needs to develop an identity as a team other than capitalizing on the opponent's mistakes. I feel like that is their real problem. This new version of C9 I would say DOES have an identity and it revolves around Jensen generating pressure in his lane which takes pressure off of his side lanes to dominate. it allows the rest of them to play a more safe style since their mid laner is often destroying his lane which gives them security in that lane and (in the cases that Jensen plays a control mage) solid burst damage in the late game. I feel like that sense of identity is exactly what makes C9 succeed at every worlds (the one exception being 2015 arguably, but even then they surpassed expectations). They are more able to realize what they need to fix to make THEIR team better, not what makes EVERY team better which feels like is the approach for TSM often. So I would say that Jensen is the best in NA considering his role on the team and how consistently he does his job compared to Bjergsen who it feels doesn't really have a role on the team (and shotcaller does not count. a player needs more to what defines them as a player other than "shotcaller"). Hell even Hai has a more defined role on his team as an aggressive all-in player who initiates the action his team needs and when he does it well it is always an absolute stroke of genius. I think that is what makes Jensen (and in my extremely biased opinion Hai) better mid laners than bjergsen. you cant have a roleplayer at mid lane and expect to be successful internationally

HotSjokzGG1 votes

{quoted}

Jensen has choked at critical moments throughout his career.

This. I too, think that Jensen is an amazing player. However, you cannot just look at someone's strengths and not his flaws. This statement brings back two memories. First, Jensen misplayed Taliyh in Summer 2016 Summer Finals, missing a critical skillshot on Doublelift. Second, Jensen failed to chronobreak on ekko in game 5 of the spring finals this past year.

Both mid laners are better a different things. They have two playstyles, which makes it very hard to compare the two.

Virgin Ray1 votes

doesnt matter if bjerg or jensen is the na mid na still not going to make it out of groups

AzureDragoon1 votes

And this is what happens when you build your all-star team around Memes and "TSM!" chants...

FableBlaze1 votes

{quoted}

And this is what happens when you build your all-star team around Memes and "TSM!" chants...

Aren't these two the same thing?

Gangnam style 21 votes

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ChompyWulf1 votes

I frankly don't think that there is a clear cut better jungler in NA over Mike. He excels with threatening attackers like Reksai, Elise, or Nidalee. Other than Sven on Lee Sin, I don't think there is a better high threat jungler. Xmithie and Contractz are solid on tankier jungs, but that's a whole different style. You don't really worry about the aggressive invade or surprise burst gank from them. As far as Bjerg vs Jensen...they are both so similar it makes little difference. Jensen is slightly more willing to take risks, but both largely win their lane then just stay parked in it, not applying pressure down lane or roaming to sides. Both often play the same kinds of mages with little variation.

And hell, who cares about farmer Sneaky? He was clearly a liability for the NA team.

The real crime was Aphro going over Olleh.

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