Yo Jack! Look at Jensen Now!

IncrediPhiLL·May 17, 2019·4 votes·4,290 views

I take pride in knowing that Jack and Reapered pushed Jensen out of the organization and now the dude is finally winning splits and going to an international final... Jack and Reapered the biggest clowns in the LCS. Terrible owner and terrible coach. Never forget Reapeard benched his two best payers in the summer split and lost almost every single game. Realized... oh crap... I better bring them back... and then won almost every single game... it's almost like he made a terrible decision and had to revert on that terrible decision... and then people want to say he's a good coach and that it was a great decision -_- Glad Jensen left those abusive clowns and found himself a better organization to play for. I can only hope Sneaky does the same.

36 Comments

AbiwonKenabiMay 17, 20197 votes

Benching players who perform poorly is common practice in every sport. I don't see it as an inherently bad decision to bench your best player if they aren't performing up to expectations. These guys are pretty young, and sometimes its not a matter of "your replacement is better" its more "your performance has gone downhill, earn you place back on the team." We knew C9 wouldn't permanently bench someone like Jensen, he's one of the best players in NA.

Even SKT has benched Faker, not because he was doing poorly, but because the rest of the team was relying too much on his carrying skills to win, and weren't performing well enough.

Like it or not, Reapered is one of the best coaches in NA. One of C9's strengths is their excellent pick/ban phase, and its likely Reapered that is a large part of this. Jack...I never really liked Jack much, but he's a businessman, team owners are going to make strange decisions based on money and performance. I don't agree with letting Jensen go either; if I owned C9, I would have done everything I could to keep a player as talented and experienced as Jensen, and that's on Jack to see that.

IncrediPhiLLMay 17, 20191 votes

Nah. I don't buy that. The only evidence that we have is Jack and Reapered saying, "They weren't taking the game seriously." There was no poor play the split before. C9 did really well the split before.

I imagine conditions in the house were that Sneaky and Jensen were streaming a lot and trolling around and Reapered didn't like it because... you know... take it seriously. If a coach makes a decision that tanks an entire team, that just simply is not a good decision. If the coach reverts the decision, that isn't a good decision either, because it proves that you have no clue what you are doing or what you are talking about.

The only course of action that would have been acceptable is if Reapered would have come clean about his mistake and publicly apologized to the team and the fan base for his poor coaching. Jack needed to do the same and probably should have resigned. After all, he did film it and humiliate both players in the C9 video log... which was horrifying to watch.

I think Jensen stays with C9 and doesn't pursue other offers if Jack resigns and Reapered apologizes, but no. They have too much pride in their own actions. They see themselves as owners and leaders of kids rather than owners and leaders of a team and clearly took advantage of them in this situation. I called it right after it happened that Jensen was going to leave after the split. I wasn't so sure about Sneaky because he has been loyal to C9 for years... but yeah. Those 2 entitled and rich buffoons destroyed C9 and any expectation they could have in the foreseeable future.

dakm102May 17, 20194 votes

Damn dude. I remember when you were a C9 superfan. The change honestly worked out for both teams in my mind. I think that it is completely fair to say that it was a matter of pride from Jensen as well. Discounting the fact that their performance DID improve after this move and that they went on to have their most successful worlds performance after this move by Reapered is not fair to the coaching staff and just looks at it from a completely objective view with the lens of "C9 just benched their top players. wtf?" One thing to note here is how it was because of this that C9 was able to have Zeyzal step up and turn into a real team leader AND top level support AND someone not taking up an import slot that allowed them to pick up Nisqy: a young player who can be developed well by staff which was shown in this split with C9 placing in 2nd comfortably. Sacrificing legacy players for the sake of developing young talent is NOT a cut and dry stupid decision. I can understand Jensen wanting to leave. But painting it as a ridiculous decision when in reality it creates a world where C9 could have their own high level EU mid laner WITHOUT the issue of someone feeling disrespected for being told that they need to take a backseat for a little bit is just not thinking clearly.

IncrediPhiLLMay 17, 20191 votes

There is NO evidence that the move worked. If C9 was playing poorly, and they benched the 2 of them, and then brought them back and they were better, then sure. But this move happened before the split even began after C9 had a successful Spring Split. It's not fair to say that the team was better "after the move." They put their best players in for the first time all season, of course they were better "after the move." In my experience, when you replace bad players with good players, the team always gets better. Simple as that. If Reapered never benched them to begin with, then C9 would have won damn near every game.

MakJuiceMay 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Nah. I don't buy that. The only evidence that we have is Jack and Reapered saying, "They weren't taking the game seriously." There was no poor play the split before. C9 did really well the split before.

I imagine conditions in the house were that Sneaky and Jensen were streaming a lot and trolling around and Reapered didn't like it because... you know... take it seriously. If a coach makes a decision that tanks an entire team, that just simply is not a good decision. If the coach reverts the decision, that isn't a good decision either, because it proves that you have no clue what you are doing or what you are talking about.

The only course of action that would have been acceptable is if Reapered would have come clean about his mistake and publicly apologized to the team and the fan base for his poor coaching. Jack needed to do the same and probably should have resigned. After all, he did film it and humiliate both players in the C9 video log... which was horrifying to watch.

I think Jensen stays with C9 and doesn't pursue other offers if Jack resigns and Reapered apologizes, but no. They have too much pride in their own actions. They see themselves as owners and leaders of kids rather than owners and leaders of a team and clearly took advantage of them in this situation. I called it right after it happened that Jensen was going to leave after the split. I wasn't so sure about Sneaky because he has been loyal to C9 for years... but yeah. Those 2 entitled and rich buffoons destroyed C9 and any expectation they could have in the foreseeable future.

Owners of their companies do not resign in a case like this. Its like you are saying any owner of any franchise, team etc should always resign when a coach benches a star player. You have coaches who make their decisions, and you as an owner decide if you bring that coach back, based off your other sources who are evaluating said coach throughout the season.

Also just as a fan looking in, put the puzzle pieces together and you can see C9 as a whole seems to not take the game as seriously as they should. Sneaky and his support last season at worlds for instance were making small remarks about how winning was stopping them from playing fort-nite. Like really? Imagine a NFL player getting through the wild-card and making jokes about not being able to play other games now. Its a joke, but if your true passion is winning at all costs, you don't contiously make jokes... Sven even said how the environment of Cloud nine was so much more relaxed and a lot less pressure. Put these pieces together and it makes for a bad environment to win. I am not saying they do not try to win, or practice etc. but as a coach or someone closer to the organization itself, you can see when people are not giving it their all. Needless to say, some of these guys can and are super immature, even being 20+ years old. Some of them are fresh out of highschool. It shouldn't surprise you they are immature unless you are still in highschool yourself or fresh out of it.

nuclearwarpotatoMay 17, 20193 votes

I mean when jensen straightened up after being benched they put him back in. Jack and Reapered never "pushed jensen out". After the transfer to TL all parties openly said that Jack was very helpful in assisting jensens move and it was Jensen's decision that he wanted to change teams. Saying otherwise just shows ignorance to the situation.

IncrediPhiLLMay 17, 20191 votes

Of course it was Jensen's decision to leave... duh. Why would he stay after being wrongfully treated? I'm saying the poor ownership and coaching decisions made him want to leave, thus pushing him out. Of course Jack and Reapered didn't want him to go. He saved their seasons. But you can't keep a player after benching him and humiliating him when he wasn't "jiving" to your every wants and needs. I imagine Jensen told Jack to let him go or he was gonna go public with Jack's terrible work conditions and mistreatment of his players. Dude is a joke and so is any coach who will stand beside him.

nuclearwarpotatoMay 17, 20193 votes

I mean you should really go watch the interviews on Travis Gafford's youtube channel with Steve Jensen and Jack regarding the transfer and the benching. Its really interesting seeing how different their perspectives on the situation are to what you are trying to make it out to be.

BigBellBruteMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I mean when jensen straightened up after being benched they put him back in. Jack and Reapered never "pushed jensen out". After the transfer to TL all parties openly said that Jack was very helpful in assisting jensens move and it was Jensen's decision that he wanted to change teams. Saying otherwise just shows ignorance to the situation.

Ok that begs two questions. Why did Jensen want to switch teams? And why was Jack so helpful in his switch rather than desperately trying to get him to stay?

nuclearwarpotatoMay 17, 20191 votes

He didn't desperately try to get him to stay because Jensen made it clear he did not want to be part of the team because he didn't like that C9 was willing to bench players that were not performing. There of are some great interviews on Travis Gafford's youtube channel about the changes. He has an interview's/ call ins with Jensen Steve and Jack all giving their perspectives if you want to get the real story. Jack obviously isn't going to be desperate to keep a player that does not want to be on the team even if they're a great player. TL was just a very ludicrous choice for both jensen and jack because of the ability to buyout on TL's end and the prospect of joining a very good team for jensen.

IncrediPhiLLMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

He didn't desperately try to get him to stay because Jensen made it clear he did not want to be part of the team because he didn't like that C9 was willing to bench players that were not performing.

That's the entire argument. If Jack treated Jensen with respect, then he never would have left. Plain and simple. Bad ownership and coaching. Period.

nuclearwarpotatoMay 17, 20192 votes

Jack still treated him with respect. There has never been an instance where they said that was not the case check the interviews lol. Just because he didn't like how the team was run doesn't mean he was treated poorly. Even so it is not disrespectful to sub out a player who is not performing, thats just how competition works in all of esports and traditional sports. If anything the fact that when Jensen did come back and start performing well that they ended up keeping him as the starter shows that they were treating him respectfully. Don't try to add a toxic narrative to a story that the parties involved in have been very open about.

IncrediPhiLLMay 17, 20192 votes

Are you being serious? Go watch the video in which Jack and Reapered FILMED THE BENCHING OF SNEAKY AND JENSEN AND POSTED IT ONLINE. Tell me if that was respectful when Jensen said "Hey. Hey Jack. Can we talk about this?" and Jack just continued on flapping his gums as if Jensen wasn't saying anything. Then Jensen and Sneaky's reactions after the fact... "We're not aloud to talk about it."

I don't know if you tuned in months later, but no. That was an incredibly out of line and toxic thing to do. The way they handled it was even worse. It was so toxic, Jensen left.

nuclearwarpotatoMay 18, 20191 votes

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, go watch all the interviews on the subject they do an amazing job of telling the entire story that you seem to be missing. You will come from such a better position of authority if you do your research.

IncrediPhiLLMay 18, 20192 votes

I don't understand. You admit that Jensen claims in these said interviews that he didn't like the way the situation was handled and the way the team was run. He didn't like being benched, but then claim that Jensen never felt like he was being treated disrespectfully.

I think you're being a little naive. I don't care how many interviews they did in the public eye for the C9 organization to save face. Executing interviews to gain positive publicity is a common practice in the entertainment industry after being subject to bad publicity. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a trading condition in Jensen's contract to Liquid that stated Jensen had to appear in interviews and claim he was treated well by the organization so Jack didn't look like a complete tool more than he already did.

Again, when time has passed and a large amount of money is involved and swapping hands, a player will say anything to move along and find the next pot of gold. This isn't anything new. What matters are the facts.

Fact 1: Jack and Reapered benched their two star players without any kind of explanation or example of poor play outside of saying, "We think this is what is best for the team" and "We need our players to be more serious."

Fact 2: Jensen and Sneaky (very) briefly tweeted and stated on stream their raw feelings... which weren't good and that they "weren't allowed to talk about it." (Which is still a POS move by the organization. Basically "We're gonna bench you guys without an explanation and under the contract we have, you're not allowed to talk about it and share your feelings."

Fact 3: Jack and Reapered went on to post a video of their brave decision... in which they bench their 2 star players... as the two of them are clearly blind sided and in disbelief about the entire situation. The video receives major dislikes on youtube, as well enrages the fan base for its insensitivity and proof of mistreatment.

Fact 4: Jensen and Sneaky went on to dominate in the Challenger scene... further creating a rift between the organization and fans... as their play was superb compared to the play of their subs... which further proves that the decision in question was simply dumb.

Fact 5: Jensen and Sneaky weeks after the split has started are STILL "Not allowed to talk about it."

Fact 6: Reapered reverts his decision to bench them after massive failure in the LCS and the team immediately begins winning... in which Reapered takes full credit for his shady decision.

Fact 7: After the success of the split and worlds, no one talks about the situation at all, outside of stating the fact that C9 started the split losing almost every game in the first half of the season, and then winning almost every game in the second half... never mentioning the benching of 2 star players of no explainable reason. Repered gets all the credit for "Turning it all around."

Fact 8: Once the season is over, Jensen almost immediately leaves the organization.

Fact 9: Suddenly, Jensen (not Sneaky still... he still is part of the organization) is allowed to talk about it... and he has no hard feelings all of the sudden. He just wants to leave the organization that he has spent years being a part of... but no hard feelings... no disrespect. It's all good Travis. They were good to me. I would have told everyone it was all good back when it first happened... but i didn't... because they wanted me to keep my mouth shut about it... even though I only had good things to say about the treatment. That video that was posted in which I was clearly surprised, upset, blindsided, and humiliated... yeah that was all good. That was definitely okay, Travis. I hope all of the fans out there know that. I was treated A+ top notch. I'm not being condescending at all. Nope.

nuclearwarpotatoMay 18, 20192 votes

You seem to be failing to get this simple concept. Just because Jensen disagreed with the team does NOT mean he was treated poorly or disrespected. It IS intact possible, as hard as it may be for you to believe, that a simple disagreement does not make someone your enemy. Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe what jensen steve and jack are saying might be true? Or are you too focused on your own narrative that you are blinding yourself to what those that actually went through the situation are saying happened.

IncrediPhiLLMay 18, 20191 votes

You seem to be failing to understand that peachy interviews months after the fact is not a reliable source as to what actually happened. ESPECIALLY when there is a trade of goods. If we are to believe these peachy interviews, then there would have been no reason for Jensen and Sneaky to be forced into silence when it first happened... because they would have nothing bad to say.

I'm not saying they beat them with baseball bats and marched them naked through Kings Landing, I'm just saying that there was an abuse of power and public humiliation of kids that should have never happened and I would leave that organization too if it happened to me.

nuclearwarpotatoMay 18, 20191 votes

Maybe its just me who likes to form my opinions AFTER I have seen all the facts. Maybe I'm just not as much of a conspiracy theorist as some people here just hoping more than anything to find someone to hate.

IncrediPhiLLMay 18, 20191 votes

Maybe you’re right, but I still stand by the fact that publicly humiliating kids for the sake of public humiliation will always be wrong. If I posted a video of me whooping my kid and sending him to bed with no dinner, I hope you know that would be wrong... no matter what peachy interview was spoonfed to the public later.

BigBellBruteMay 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Maybe its just me who likes to form my opinions AFTER I have seen all the facts. Maybe I'm just not as much of a conspiracy theorist as some people here just hoping more than anything to find someone to hate.

No. You're simply disregarding the facts you don't like because they trash your argument.

BigBellBruteMay 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You seem to be failing to understand that peachy interviews months after the fact is not a reliable source as to what actually happened. ESPECIALLY when there is a trade of goods. If we are to believe these peachy interviews, then there would have been no reason for Jensen and Sneaky to be forced into silence when it first happened... because they would have nothing bad to say.

I'm not saying they beat them with baseball bats and marched them naked through Kings Landing, I'm just saying that there was an abuse of power and public humiliation of kids that should have never happened and I would leave that organization too if it happened to me.

Just wanted to add that if those interviews are to be believed and everything was totally peachy keen, why did Jensen leave in the first place?

BigBellBruteMay 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You seem to be failing to get this simple concept. Just because Jensen disagreed with the team does NOT mean he was treated poorly or disrespected. It IS intact possible, as hard as it may be for you to believe, that a simple disagreement does not make someone your enemy. Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe what jensen steve and jack are saying might be true? Or are you too focused on your own narrative that you are blinding yourself to what those that actually went through the situation are saying happened.

We're not saying he was treated disrespectfully merely because he disagreed with the team. We're saying the release of that video we talked about above was itself disrespectful.

MakJuiceMay 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

We're not saying he was treated disrespectfully because he disagreed with the team. We're saying the release of that video we talked about above was itself disrespectful.

Wasn't the release of the video part of their "season of Cloud 9" sort've like TSM legends? If that's the case, I am sure they signed contracts to air all of this type of content wether it would be good or bad, and drama like this adds ratings. Its a business at the end of the day.....

BigBellBruteMay 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Jack still treated him with respect. There has never been an instance where they said that was not the case check the interviews lol. Just because he didn't like how the team was run doesn't mean he was treated poorly. Even so it is not disrespectful to sub out a player who is not performing, thats just how competition works in all of esports and traditional sports. If anything the fact that when Jensen did come back and start performing well that they ended up keeping him as the starter shows that they were treating him respectfully. Don't try to add a toxic narrative to a story that the parties involved in have been very open about.

That video about the benching posted was very disrespectful IMO Further, Jensen was benched before the split started. So he wasn't benched for performance. Thus, contrary to your assertion, we are not showing ignorance of the situation. We do seem to have a difference of opinion over what is or isn't disrespectful, however. And that's ok. You're quite welcome to a difference of opinion on what constitutes a lack of respect and state so. Nobody will ever truly know exactly why Jensen left and why Jack let him. But let us not pretend everything was peachy keen eh?

nuclearwarpotatoMay 18, 20191 votes

I think that you are forgetting about scrims. Teams start scrims before the split lol. His performance/cooperation in scrims is just as important as on stage for the team. You are correct that we will have differing opinions on this which is fine but please do your research and check the involved party's opinions before coming up with one.

BigBellBruteMay 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I think that you are forgetting about scrims. Teams start scrims before the split lol. His performance/cooperation in scrims is just as important as on stage for the team. You are correct that we will have differing opinions on this which is fine but please do your research and check the involved party's opinions before coming up with one.

Yeah sure. If Scrims meant squat, liquid would have lost in the semis and Gilius would be the best player in the world. But keep thinking everyone else is ignorant or needs to do research. Thanks for the laugh. They weren't benched for performance. They were benched for not kissing foot in practice.

By the way, Jensen is one series away from an MSI title. Where is Jack?

nuclearwarpotatoMay 18, 20191 votes

Ahh yes the classic ignore your opponents argument and try to change the subject when you have no counter. Works every time (for the opponent that is)

BigBellBruteMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

He didn't desperately try to get him to stay because Jensen made it clear he did not want to be part of the team because he didn't like that C9 was willing to bench players that were not performing. There of are some great interviews on Travis Gafford's youtube channel about the changes. He has an interview's/ call ins with Jensen Steve and Jack all giving their perspectives if you want to get the real story. Jack obviously isn't going to be desperate to keep a player that does not want to be on the team even if they're a great player. TL was just a very ludicrous choice for both jensen and jack because of the ability to buyout on TL's end and the prospect of joining a very good team for jensen.

So in other words, there was indeed some animosity there contrary to your earlier assertions. And Jack airing that dirty laundry in public was in fact disrespectful. Further, he didn't get benched for performance. He got benched before the season even started.

AbiwonKenabiMay 17, 20192 votes

Yeah, I don't get why this guy is so hostile towards C9 staff. Benching players isn't an inherently bad decision, and I think these players (Jensen in particular) are mature enough to see it as a motivator to improve rather than see as "being pushed around". There was no hostility in the decision. Same with Jensen deciding to leave C9, he just wanted to leave, he probably felt he had a better chance at an international title with TL. So far, he wouldn't be wrong.

nuclearwarpotatoMay 18, 20191 votes

I think that people take only the first look at what happens in the sports scene and fail to actually check in on the event. This seems a lot like they made up their mind as a reaction to the result as opposed to forming an opinion based off of research and accounts of what happened. They are trying so hard to make Jack out to be a villain when nobody in the scene ever talks bad about him at all. You don't win an award for how well you have run your esports organization by being some shady Machiavellian owner that treats everyone terribly.

RaiyzaMay 17, 20192 votes

Lol, Jensen has been getting hard carried. Impact, Doublelift, and Xmithie have been performing better this entire season.

I do agree, Repeared is a terrible coach.

IncrediPhiLLMay 17, 20191 votes

Go back and look at the kills and the engages those games. Especially G2. Jensen is the captain now.

RaiyzaMay 17, 20194 votes

Notice how I said "this entire season." I'm not talking just MSI. I'm glad TL is doing well, but Jensen is not the reason.

Clexmix DeuxMay 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Notice how I said "this entire season." I'm not talking just MSI. I'm glad TL is doing well, but Jensen is not the reason.

Sir SaltarinMay 17, 20191 votes

LET'S FUCKING GO TL

ChompyWulfMay 17, 20191 votes

I can't help but laugh hysterically as people champion Jensen and defend him as some terribly wronged player....

The dude was banned and shouldn't even have been allowed back into pro LoL. He not only would feed, afk, and be toxic to other players, he hacked. He would DDOS and drop hack games. He would backtrace people's IP addresses through the client, including Riot employees who were handling his TOS violations. He would threaten them with this information.

And people here crying about how he was benched for being a tool? As has been repeatedly stated, it straightened him and Sneaky out, and it was when a bunch of other carries were struggling with the meta and other distractions, stars getting benched in EU and Korea too. To badmouth two guys who have led one of the most successful LoL organizations over benching one guy and not fighting to keep him? GTFO and get some real world experience.

This guy is lucky Riot ever let him back to begin with.