How Bad, Exactly, is NA

IncrediPhiLL·Jun 3, 2017·3 votes·483 views

TSM continues to buy all the good players and uses them to dominate the NALCS. That's fine. But they are unable to have any success internationally. C9 performed the best last year at Worlds after losing to TSM, but didn't do great, and TSM was frankly an embarrassment to the nation at MSI. A team like CLG who is so/so in the region had a good run at MSI last year, but dropped the ball at worlds. What does that say about the NA region as a whole that 1 team continually dominates NA split after split (thanks for the excitement RIOT. You really know how to give us the element of ZERO surprise), but that same team continually get destroyed during international play. Is NALCS the worst region? I know it's definitely bottom 3, but man... we bad. I'd be all for the TSM dominance if they could win a game in international play, but it's kind of a letdown knowing that the winner of the NALCS year after year does absolutely nothing at worlds year after year.

11 Comments

III BAKURYU III Jun 3, 20172 votes

Yeah, I'm getting tired of the same stuff, now if you excuse me I'm going to go watch some NFL where the Patriots/Whatever team Peyton is on and watch them dominate, NBA where it's literally the same guy in like 7-8 Finals in a row/Warriors who's looking to win 5-6 Championships within 8 years and NHL where it's the Penguins winning everything. The same thing happening year in and year out is pretty much an American tradition

Seen a video where China and EU have such a large scale of players that finding good players within such a massive pool helps with both. Korea has like 0 ping, and has been in the E-Sport scene with other games to help their practice, methods over the years.

But yeah NA sucking isn't something new as it's going on 7-8 years and it's most likely not going to change. C9 yeah, they've made it to QT Finals GJ! Started each Worlds in either QT Finals to begin with or starts off 2-0/4-3 2014, 3-0/3-4 2015, 2-1/3-3 in 2015 and can't seem to beat TSM in 3 years overall the last 5 meetings and with fans saying " OH C9 could have done better at MSI etc etc" How about C9 actually win NA first.

SpârkyJun 3, 20171 votes

You turned this into a tsm fanboy paragraph... Yes i am a c9 fan. Do I think they are better than TSM? No. Do I think they are way better internationally? Yes. they also have the track record to prove it. I think c9 is better internationally just because they have Impact and people forget about Reapered he has international experience as well. This is not a hate on TSM they are still better than c9 but to be frank. TSM sucks internationally.

IncrediPhiLLJun 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=PG Sparky,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=46d7yRoB,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-06-03T23:09:03.607+0000)

You turned this into a tsm fanboy paragraph... Yes i am a c9 fan. Do I think they are better than TSM? No. Do I think they are way better internationally? Yes. they also have the track record to prove it. I think c9 is better internationally just because they have Impact and people forget about Reapered he has international experience as well. This is not a hate on TSM they are still better than c9 but to be frank. TSM sucks internationally.

I agree with this. C9 is much, much better internationally than TSM. Curious how they continue to lose to TSM in the LCS but always outplay them internationally... I'll keep that to myself.

III BAKURYU III Jun 3, 20172 votes

Not a "Tsm fanboy" and I don't care if you are a C9 fan or not, C9 were better than TSM on the International stage once.
Impact - C9 seems to sub him out constantly, subbed him out of 1-2 games during the Finals for Ray, and are now 0-2 because of it.
Reapeared - C9's best player when Impact isn't there Jensen has quoted on multiple interviews that " Repeared doesn't know more League than I do/pick ban" he said that in a Thorin video. A player that can't come up in the clutch, has had rage problems in the past in which was banned for 1-2 years, caused multiple players to leave the Org and doesn't respect his coach, if that's not NA quality talent IDK what is. TSM does suc but C9 are right there behind them.

IncrediPhiLLJun 3, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=III BAKURYU III ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=46d7yRoB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-03T22:36:25.617+0000)

Yeah, I'm getting tired of the same stuff, now if you excuse me I'm going to go watch some NFL where the Patriots/Whatever team Peyton is on and watch them dominate, NBA where it's literally the same guy in like 7-8 Finals in a row/Warriors who's looking to win 5-6 Championships within 8 years and NHL where it's the Penguins winning everything. The same thing happening year in and year out is pretty much an American tradition

Seen a video where China and EU have such a large scale of players that finding good players within such a massive pool helps with both. Korea has like 0 ping, and has been in the E-Sport scene with other games to help their practice, methods over the years.

But yeah NA sucking isn't something new as it's going on 7-8 years and it's most likely not going to change. C9 yeah, they've made it to QT Finals GJ! Started each Worlds in either QT Finals to begin with or starts off 2-0/4-3 2014, 3-0/3-4 2015, 2-1/3-3 in 2015 and can't seem to beat TSM in 3 years overall the last 5 meetings and with fans saying " OH C9 could have done better at MSI etc etc" How about C9 actually win NA first.

Not sure what sports you are watching, but NFL hasn't had a consecutive winner for 10 years. Warriors didn't even win the championship last year and Penguins hardly ever win the ship in hockey... like wtf are you talking about? NALCS is an absolute disaster and snoozefest. Terribly calculated and predictable on an undprescedented scale. It's not even just the NALCS. Every single region has had the same consecutive winner and every worlds even has had the same consecutive winner for nearly 3 years.

This is why RIOT is trying to make so many changes to benefit the teams being able to get on an average playing level. Look at their most recent "3 Area focus" video. Not gonna work if you ask me. Look at Rift Rivals. Exciting, but won't fix all it needs to. They know viewership has declined and they know the "long term lastability" of the LCS is impossible with the state of the game as it is right now. It's not fans just being mad because their team lost. It's an actual problem RIOT is trying to fix and they are unable to do so. Hate to say it, but no one likes to see their team lose over and over again and the LCS is too small to have loyal fans remain loyal to teams that cannot win. Unless you are a TSM fan, chances are you care very little about the NALCS. The more TSM, G2, and SKT win, the more the league will falter. Until the leagues can have some variation with their results, viewership will continue to fall. When a different team wins the regional tournaments and ultimately the international tournaments, only then can any shred of excitement return to professional League of Legends.

III BAKURYU III Jun 3, 20171 votes

" NFL where the Patriots/Whatever team Peyton is on and watch them dominate" Dominate doesn't mean Championships, NE has had like 14 straight years of 12-4/winnning records. And does have #1 among AFC Teams with Conference appearances, Superbowl Appearances and Superbowl Championships/Appearances.

" Warriors who's looking to win 5-6 Championships within 8 years" Won 2015, almost won 2016 and looks to win in 2017, I also said " who's looking to win 5-6 championships within 8 years" I didn't say they won multiple already.

" Penguins hardly ever " They won multiple Championships 4 and has been a dynasty for the past decade and is looking to repeat as Champions, something that has been done since 97-98.

That's what I was talking about?

Riot can change the game all they want, tweak, rework etc etc but it comes down to Skill, work ethic and respecting the ones involved in the ORG(Jensen) and NA just can't seem to do 2 of the 3 to begin with.

GeminiRuneJun 3, 20172 votes

How bad is NA because TSM keeps winning? Okay...how bad is Korea because SKT keeps winning in the end? How about the LMS with FW? Europe with G2? LAN with Lyon? LAS with a practical 2 way dance? Brazil with the same? Japan with a top heavy competition? Everywhere else has some kind of odd flavor of differences to them.

I don't understand why there always needs to be this judgment for domestic play based off of international results. In a 13 region system you call NA bottom 3. On what terms? Is it because they field TSM and they don't live up to anything? If that's the case then there have been worse examples: primarily Lyon Gaming, whose won more domestic titles and never gets anywhere with it; they got close once.

Pippen The ShortJun 4, 20172 votes

Salty C9 fan post.

The NA LCS scene has been getting better every year. This split may prove to be one of most competitive yet.

anankeJun 3, 20171 votes

we're bad and they need to do something about it. Obviously, they're doing the same thing year after year and it obviously isn't working so they need to change something up.

ProtestantCaesarJun 3, 20171 votes

"Bottom 3"? Out of the top 5 regions or out of all 13 regions? Well, international formats are changing. It's no longer the big 5 regions (NALCS, EULCS, LCK, LMS, and LPL) and the wild cards. Now the former wild card regions have the chance to show that they're better than NA, if they really are.

And at least at MSI this year, TSM finished ahead of the former wild card regions. The NALCS is probably the 5th best region out of the 13.

BigBellBruteJun 4, 20171 votes

Other than Korea, nobody else is appreciably better.
Let me put it to you this way. If anything happens at worlds other than the following I will be surprised.

Four teams will be lucky and not get a Korean team in their group. Two teams will get lucky and face each other in the Quarters and one of them will make the semis where they will be dumpstered by the Korean team they face. The finals will be Korea vs Korea.

Europe seems to have a better top 4 on average than we do at the moment but beyond that, they are total garbage. And we'll see who is hot and who is not at worlds. Roccat couldn't even beat G2 with the latter having three players subbed in.