Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 5

RiotMeddler·10/5/2018, 4:14:59 PM·1 votes·166,054 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Some things we'll be looking at in 8.21

Not a comprehensive list, but a few champs we already know we'll be looking at in 8.21:

  • Kai'Sa nerf - One direction is giving her clearer weaknesses. Another is making her upgrades a bit harder to unlock, given the original intent wasn't that she'd unlock all 3 this reliably.
  • Tank Pyke nerf - While keeping AD Pyke around its current power level. Potentially involves some degree of kit effect changes (e.g. modifying the HP -> AD effect on his passive plus additional scaling changes?)
  • Corki buff - Didn't make it into 8.20, aiming to have it in 8.21 as a result.

OMW Ping improvements in 8.21

We should also have some improvements to the OMW pings in 8.21. The big change is that the sound of the pings themselves will now communicate a couple of extra pieces of info:

  1. Processing applied to the sound will represent distance between the user of the ping and the pinged location. The further that distance, the more echo there'll be. Basically it's a representation of how long it'll take the pinging player to get there.
  2. The further the ping is from the listening player the quieter the ping will be played. If someone's pinging that they're on the way to your lane, you'll hear a loud ping. If they're pinging they're on their way to the other side of the map, it'll be comparatively quiet.

We'll also be putting a chat notification of the OMW ping being used back in team chat. Looks like that got accidentally broken at some point when this approach was being developed.


Why we don't use adaptive effects in game

Since we added both adaptive damage and adaptive stats to the pre-game with Runes the question's naturally been raised as to why we're not using them in game as well. Things like why not have items just grant Adaptive AP/AD so more champs can use them, or having damage on champ abilities or from items change types to be more optimal all the time. Some thoughts on why we haven't been doing that below.

  • Adaptive Damage

By which we mean damage that can change its type. Easy example being Arcane Comet, which deals magic damage when you're building AP and physical damage when you're building AD. With Runes we were almost always aiming to design effects that could be added on to any damage pattern. Offering the damage type that would make sense with the sort of pen you were likely to build was more appropriate as a result. That also means it's easier to pick defensive options against a specific champion, since their pregame damage contributions will generally be matching their kit damage type.

For in game effects by contrast our concern is that adaptive damage makes it much harder to predict what sort of damage you'll be facing and therefore purchase/play against it. LoL's got a lot of champ abilities and other damage sources already to understand/track, so making it so you also need to assess someone's build all the time to understand whether an ability has flipped damage type is something we generally want to avoid. Possible we might make the occasional exception, especially if it's a strong fit with a champion's theme and really well communicated through art/audio etc, but even then would expect it to be a rare thing if done at all.

  • Adaptive Stats on items etc (or abilities that scale with either stat)

As in stats that just give you whichever you scale best with of AP/AD/whatever. Again with Runes we wanted things to be really open, particularly to avoid having to make additional runes that were basically just duplicates with different scaling. With items by contrast there are quite a lot of cases where limiting the pool of users can be really important, particularly from a game health perspective. Which stats an item offers is a really good way to skew its value towards different users it's intended to serve well (e.g. pushing Zhonya's towards primarily mages and other heavy AP users, or skewing Black Cleaver towards health so we can keep it in a good spot for juggernauts and other tankier fighters). Additionally items changing which stats they offer also contributes to difficulty understanding and reacting to enemy damage output, especially if it flips back and forth during the game. We've been very hesitant about adaptive stats in game as a result, given the degree to which that would privilege offense over defense, unless making defensive stats adaptive as well. There are some cases where it might be a useful tool (e.g. opening up the Spellthief's line to AD users). Possible we do use it a bit in circumstances like that at some point, also might just solve the issue in other ways though (offering other power rather than AD or AP specifically).

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

356 Comments

Harambe10/5/2018, 4:18:45 PM63 votes

STOP IGNORING WUKONG..... FIX HIM... Revert the nerfs, you guys already nerfed Items and Runes he didn't deserve actual ability nerfs he's been unchanged for over 6 seasons now. The Items and Nerfs were the problems you guys did the monkey dirty. FIX WUKONG. GIVE HIM ATTENTION ALREADY STOP IGNORING

Wukong Airlines10/5/2018, 8:01:56 PM16 votes

It's funny Meddler answers all the questions about other champs and proceeds to ignore the fuck outta Wukong.

You're bringing a whole new level of disrespect and bullshit to an entire champ fan-base.

Côco Atrevido10/5/2018, 4:21:16 PM14 votes

Hey Meddler, hope ur doing fine.

Is it possible for the Lissandra new passive show up in the next PBE cycle?

Is the colorful mage getting close or will it be revealed closer to the end of the year? Cheers

Sir Nope10/5/2018, 4:26:32 PM14 votes

You mention clearer weaknesses for Kai'sa. What are Kai'sa's intended weaknesses?

Śhunpo10/5/2018, 5:31:27 PM13 votes

Hmm, I feel like Shaco 's Two-Shiv Poison would be THE perfect candidate for adaptive damage. AP Shaco is pretty much dead primarily due to E continuing to do physical damage even with a large amount of AP, forcing Shaco to pick up Lethality/Armor pen. (?) in order for his E to do any amount of relevant damage.

Thoughts?

BobaFlautist10/5/2018, 4:36:04 PM12 votes

{quoted}

I think I mentioned this in the last one, I don't know whether or not this data exists but it would be super cool to see data on how the win percentage of a given champion correlates with the opposing team's average games played against that champion (E.G. Yi's winrate goes from 70%-30% as the other team's average games played against Yi go from 0-100, whereas for Galio it stays relatively flatter from 57%-43%).

It would really give some context as to whether champions new to the meta or rarely played really are that strong, or if they're getting a statistical advantage by being unfamiliar to their opponents, and would also help me decide whether or not to practice counterplay against a given champ.

Turtle Lord10/5/2018, 4:27:25 PM11 votes

Hi i made a discussion post about an idea and i kinda just want to put it here cause i hope more people would see the suggestion: to be able to use space bar to accept queues (i.e. ranked and drafted pick) I feel like its the same efficient as using a mouse. I don t see why it would be bad. and i had a response to my post and i added this anecdote as a way for it to make sense or relate to people, the person mentioned it would be an unnecessary addition but i said "i dont think its unnecessary at all, i feel like everyone has a moment when they think they can go do something really quick while in queue then try to rush back to their computer and frantically find the cursor and try to accept it, i believe it would be like 3 times less complicated with just smashing the space bar. its a very conscious act so i dont know why you think its unnecessary, but you know if it is please explain lol" so i hope someone sees this and thank you reading!

Kagusutchi10/5/2018, 4:44:36 PM10 votes

Hey Meddler, first of all thanks for sharing your thoughts with us again !

I wanted to talk about a few things :

  1. Kai'sa : First, as far as I am concerned her upgrades aren't really the problem. I think you should give her a real weakness during the laning phase, according to me she doesn't have any real counter to make her struggle to get her first items.

  2. Colorful Mage : Please Meddler, tell us anything about it !

Adalvar10/5/2018, 4:23:52 PM10 votes

Ok, so new question...with the Ezreal rework almost out the door, what are the short term likely candidates to these mini-reworks?

Also will we see Lissandra's passive next PBE cvcle?

warpenguin55510/5/2018, 4:28:58 PM10 votes

What happened to the anti shield item and 5th elemental drake?

MinDanny10/5/2018, 4:32:48 PM8 votes

Personally, I think one of the best Kai-sa nerfs would be to make it so the shield value from the Ult scales on the distance she travels.

I think you should incentive her to dive more than to use the ult as a mini-hop to re-position while getting a large shield out of it.

It feels especially bad when you get on her as anyone, and she gets away from your range** while obtaining a big shield**.

Ninetales10/5/2018, 4:26:54 PM8 votes

Hey Meddler,

As it's been over a month now, any updates on how Riot feels about the Yorick changes?

His winrate is diamond is looking pretty grim compared to what it was and he's still maintaining his low elo dominating status.

Scarthcaroth10/5/2018, 4:52:09 PM7 votes

I feel obliged to chime in on the tank Pyke directions. Generally I am a fan of pushing him towards his intended role as an assassin that can function as a support but I'm going to say, changing the HP->AD scaling is not going to do very much. Tank Pyke builds are quite low on HP based tank items. At most there's going to be the upgraded sightstone and maybe, every now and then, a spiritvisage.

Far more often, however, the effectiveness of tank Pyke is a result of heavy resistance stacking. Aftershock, Frozen Heart, Zeke's... Simply adjusting the conversion ratio will not have much of an effect in that regard.

The Fake Shaco10/5/2018, 4:36:06 PM7 votes

I'll keep it brief this time.

Can I get a comment on if the removal of Shaco boxes immunity to cc being removed was intentional? Or, their AI as well?

Frosted Tips10/5/2018, 5:01:39 PM7 votes

A few questions:

  1. So will the AP fighter items start becoming a higher priority soon or not?
  2. Still no fix to Zyra plants? When will those happen?
  3. Can we get a Diana vs Leona Versus Event?
Salvor Hardın10/5/2018, 4:17:20 PM5 votes

I attach the commentary on Rek Sai from the last post, in case you didn't see it.

[{quoted}](name=Salvor Hardın,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=AENqRo6N,comment-id=00190000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-03T16:49:38.647+0000)

It cost me! But I found it.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/f1s2Kk7r-quick-gameplay-thoughts-september-12

Rek'Sai A while back I mentioned we were looking at Rek'Sai buffs which never ended up happening. Wanted to share a bit of context as to why since I see them getting asked about a fair bit still. At time of mention our assessment was Rek'Sai was underperforming across the board, so we had room to add some straight power to her. Looking into things a bit deeper though we realized she was performing quite well at higher MMR already and that straight buffs would be inappropriate. She does have a fairly steep learning curve, and underperforms at low/average MMR though, so will feel weak to quite a lot of players. Would like to do some work to smooth out her early accessibility a bit as a result, that's a much larger task though than just adding power so it didn't fit within the time we had allocated. Expect we'll come back to her at some point, not sure on when though.

atlıkarınca10/5/2018, 4:22:38 PM5 votes

Hi Meddler. Is the peacock champion Reav3 talking about real? (Ask Riot: 100th edition)

ROX Peanut10/5/2018, 4:52:33 PM5 votes

Any plans for Shyvana? Shes is in a pretty weak spot for quite some time already.

It would be quite nice if her ult would drag enemies the whole distance and not only 100ish range.

Elewd10/5/2018, 6:37:54 PM4 votes

anything on Zyra? as much as i love burstmage zyra i'd love to play zoning/control Zyra again...

i got big sad10/5/2018, 4:43:04 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler, Been a while since I heard you talk about this, but do you have any plans for Zac? He's been in a pretty awful spot balance-wise for a solid 5 patches at least. Our friendly Goo Guy could definitely use a little push to be playable at the very least. Thanks for any response!

Tik11510/6/2018, 11:01:26 PM3 votes

Question in regards to your previous post about nerfing Eve because "She can delete squsihies too easilly without Charm" What is the thought patten for nerfing this meanwhile other Assassins which have those "invise insta-delete" kind of deals don't get touched? (Rengar Khazix Talon ) Some of them (Specifically Rengar) Can pop a squsihy with only a slight indicator similar to her so whats the deal?.

You already front loaded so much into this delayed damage philosophy (Which its pretty clear you've now discarded) so why go back to trying to enforce it on just one champion?

Lets have shrex10/8/2018, 7:30:26 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler are you single ? I'm interested in you and would like to go on a date please

TopperH10/5/2018, 9:41:58 PM2 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champions/

So Kai'sa dropped at barely 50% winrate after the lastest nerf and she is getting nerfed AGAIN.

Meanwhile MF, Draven, Lucian, Twitch, Sivir, Jhin are all at >52% winrate, not to mention the more exotic picks like Heimer, Swain, Yasuo, all outperforming her. And it's Kai'Sa that gets the nerf bat AGAIN.

I just started playing the game again after taking a break because of the atrocious 8.11 patch, and you are making me want to stop playing again.