Meddler Q&A

RiotMeddler·Jul 14, 2014·89 votes·298,885 views

Hey all,

Lead champion designer Andrei van Roon here. I've meddled in the origins of more than a half-dozen champs, having designed as well as , , and . All the while I've also contributed to a number of other designs including most of our recent champions. Whether you’re looking for a few more answers to your moustachiest questions, or wondering how got his death ray, or just curious about new champion ideation, concepting and execution, ask away below!

-Meddler

Edit: Thanks for the discussion folks, I've got to get back to work though at this point. Will drop back and answer a few more questions later on though.

1,221 Comments

Lgc MonkeyJul 14, 2014121 votes

Hey Meddler, what are the chances of us seeing another yordle being created?

MephJul 14, 201464 votes

Is it true that champion designers at Riot are prohibited from viewing the player creations forum?

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201438 votes

Not to the best of my knowledge, I'm not aware of anyone on the champion design team that frequents them though. Good starting ideas aren't usually the issue we run into, it's how you refine, implement, iterate, balance etc that's the bigger challenge.

Professor MapleJul 14, 201427 votes

So I love hearing about champion mechanics that were scrapped from kits. What was your favorite mechanical idea that was removed from an existing champion? The ones I know of are

Zed makes it become dusk, lengthening the shadows of enemy champions. Zed then teleports to an enemy champions shadow. This one just sounds super cool.
Vi could had three different ultimates depending on what button she hit during her dash. I believe this was cut cause the window was pretty small for not a lot of gameplay.
Elise could toggle to leave a trail of web particles behind her (like singed poison) Then she could solidify it into a solid wall on second cast. This is one of those that sounds cooler than it probably actually played out.

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201454 votes

Xypherous played around with a champion that could attach themselves to an ally, soaking damage for them and casting spells as the ally moved around. Would love to try that again sometime on a tank or support.

AntiSkillshotJul 14, 201415 votes

Xypherous played around with a champion that could attach themselves to an ally, soaking damage for them and casting spells as the ally moved around. Would love to try that again sometime on a tank or support.

That sounds pretty interesting. I don't think the champion would look humanoid, though. Maybe an insectoid?

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201425 votes

Yeah, creature or shapeshifter seems likely. I believe (before my time at Riot) the original concept was for a swarm of insects for example. It's an idea we've tested a couple of times since but haven't found the right fit for.

YukalunaJul 14, 201419 votes

http://www.moba-champion.com/news/310 you mean someone like mina from dawngate?

yeetblaster420Jul 14, 201428 votes

Hey Meddler, just wanted to see what your thoughts are on which lane needs a new champ to balance the meta in any way. Basically, what lane is riot looking to design the next champ?

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 2014143 votes

Next champ's a top laner. Balancing a lane or the meta's not something we try to do with a single release though, the roster's too big and the game too complex for that to be a viable approach.

jg is slaveryJul 14, 20148 votes

Is it a top laner that is solely a top laner such as Irelia and Renekton, or is it a top laner that is also a viable jungler, such as Zac, Aatrox, and Jarvan IV?

MolpaJul 14, 201447 votes

I belive Zac was designed to be a jungler at first, not a top laner. I must say that Zac is a jungler who is also viable as a top laner. I think my comment will be downvoted to hell.

TricksresJul 14, 201421 votes

Is Jinx 's sister i just have too know

MoobeatJul 14, 201418 votes

Any updates on your earlier comments regarding updates Lissandra's passive?

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201417 votes

Still planning to test out a defensive effect after CCing enemies, probably with a greater effect against ranged attacks than melee, given Lissandra struggles in some ranged match ups . Hoping to put some time into that after getting some Urgot tweaks out.

Patrick MahomesJul 14, 20148 votes

Urgot tweaks? Do you mind explaining more about what exactly you are tweaking with him?

Like, what needs to be changed do you think?

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201410 votes

Bunch of discussion in this thread:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=42998910

The tweaks I mention are described in a couple of my most recent posts, short version is making bigger changes is going to require art support for a proper rework, so we're looking to give him some help (quality of life changes, smallish buffs) in the meantime).

Patrick MahomesJul 14, 201415 votes

Moobeat, the sleepless.

ValliksJul 14, 201418 votes

I have heard that there a 12 new champs being worked on at a time is this correct?

RiotTamfailJul 14, 201416 votes

I'm very curious about how designers manage their time. How do you avoid spending unnecessary amounts of time on a seemingly great idea (aside from executing on it and understanding that it doesn't work)?

Have you noticed any patterns in workflow around failed ideas vs. more successful ideas?

swifty10Jul 14, 201415 votes

Is it true that u got the ide of Braum from alex armsrong from fullmetal alchemist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BdQunJnrEw i se atleast 2 abilety in this video that is used in him

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201422 votes

Armstrong's a good example of the archetype we wanted to tap into with Braum, and was one of around half a dozen reference points we had for the sort of character we wanted to make. He wasn't the initial inspiration though.

FIówJul 14, 201415 votes

Just wondering but when are we going to see Ao Shin , the Storm Dragon?

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201433 votes

Not for a long time. We do still plan to make Ao Shin, but we ran into a number of issues with how we were approaching him. As a result we basically took his concept back to the really early stages - would rather go for slow, but good, than quick but disappointing.

Patrick MahomesJul 14, 201410 votes

On a real note though, what makes a champion? Kit or Lore?

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201428 votes

Gameplay, lore and art are the pillars of how we approach making a champion. The initial idea can be any of the above - someone's got an image they'd like to draw, a story they'd like to tell or an ability they'd like to play with. Working from that starting point we then explore what the rest of the champion might look like and what opportunities there are to offer something new. Braum for example started off as a female Piltover engineer, with a giant mechanical shield. We tested a kit for that initial idea in game and hit on some abilities we really liked (similar to Braum's current passive and E), the art and personality weren't coming together however. We consequently took another look at who such a kit could fit on and, after a fair bit of exploration of different possible personalities and origin factions hit on Braum.

Patrick MahomesJul 14, 201428 votes

Woah... Braum was a girl at one point? Anymore more stories like this?

Don't tell me that Jinx was supposed to be a big burly man with a giant machine gun... Hehehe. "I am heavy weapons guy."

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201420 votes

We did have another concept that was competing for the same space as Jinx at one point, a heavy hextech chaingunner. There were some cool bits and pieces to the idea, it never really got off the ground though and if we were to revisit it we'd want to do something pretty different - Jinx does the chaingun space well.

Patrick MahomesJul 14, 20149 votes

Is there ever a time where you run into a problem when you have a really cool design, but a previous champion already fits that space? Like lets say you guys come up with a cool sword and shield champion, but you already have a champion such as Leona, a sword and bulwark like champ?

Evelyn EndwiseJul 14, 20148 votes

[deleted]

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201413 votes

It's a possibility, though we'd want to do something other than a shield now of course. No firm plans, but it's a concept we have talked about occasionally since.

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201410 votes

Thanks for the discussion folks, I've got to get back to work though at this point. Will drop back and answer a few more questions later on though.

Edit: For anyone that's not aware of it there's also a new feature on the boards here that's worth a look. If you scroll down and click on the 'Rioter Rundown' button you can get a quick summary of the is Q&A.

12talesJul 14, 20148 votes

About how many champion concepts are tossed around, relative to the number that actually make it into the game?

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201427 votes

Most suggested champions never get made. A lot of ideas stop in their early stages when they're no more than a sketch or some discussion about abilities that might be interesting. Some do end up getting put aside later in the process though, either because the character's not working out or because we've got something we feel's better. A number of those ideas do later get revisited and often work out the second or third time though (Lucian and Vi are good examples of that). Finally champions do occasionally get cancelled late in the process, that's pretty rare though.

Mildred LJul 14, 20147 votes

I am mostly interested in Syndra's kit. What were other ideas you guys thought of while working with her concept?

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201411 votes

Tried a lot of different versions of sphere manipulation, some of which consumed the spheres on use. Also tried some other stuff that didn't work out at all, like a giant nova effect, slow moving extremely powerful skillshot (think a line of Veigar meteors) and an ultimate that let you throw enemy champions (suspect we'll go back to a variant on that for someone someday, Syndra wasn't the right fit for it though).

AntiSkillshotJul 14, 20146 votes

So you helped design Varus, eh? I like you, now... On a side note. How do you like these new forums?

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201414 votes

Thanks, glad you like him :).

Liking the flexibility of these RE 'pick your own layout'. Bit dark for me though, going to pass on some thoughts to the folks working on them, find out if color scheme modification's something on their mind.

Raz al GhulJul 14, 20146 votes

With each new champion it seems like the engineers create some sort of new tech. Are there any plans to ever revamp the pet system and come out with a more true pet champion (like a more permanent Tibbers that has more in depth controls and doesn't just walk around and melee)?

I'm just curious, as I recall forum chatter a couple years back indicating that it's not really feasible because of the way your champion is always actively selected for commands by default, and that sweeping changes to the game system would need to be undertaken for a pet champ that played to the standard level you guys would demand. Anyway, any thoughts on if that's still too big of an obstacle or if there are potential workarounds. It'd be cool to have a new subtype of champions that control more active pets rather than the bulk of our current "pet" champions that are more of short-term area controllers.

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 20149 votes

Yeah, we'd like to explore a champion with a more permanent and significant pet at some point. Would definitely want engineering support to do that properly, the current system works well enough for straightforward pets like Tibbers but wouldn't support a pet that was around constantly, with a bigger skillset, well. Can't make any promises on timeframe though, besides not for a while at the very least.

JabalorJul 14, 20145 votes

What was the approach to make velkoz first skin of the battlecast series? why not for example deep sea or jurassic like the other void ones?

As for Braum, why a mountain goat shield?

Patrick MahomesJul 14, 201420 votes

It's a door. Read the lore!

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201422 votes

We did look at Deep Sea and Jurassic as options, the visual mockup for the Battlecast skin however was a clear winner for the team though, in terms of personality fit and visual opportunities.

We went for a ram with Braum since it was a great fit with the sort of character we wanted to convey - tough, at home on a mountain, headstrong, forceful but kinda fluffy etc.

JackYAquaJul 14, 20144 votes

I know you've (Rioters) said abilities like Braum's Shield and Yasuo's Windwall will stay 'unique' and not recur in the near future.
But does that mean they will never show up again?
And if they could; could you make a projectile that blocks other projectiles? Like Yasuo throws his wall instead of placing it, or Ezreal's could throw a small, thin energy wall with his W that can block one or two projectiles (on a high CD).
^^

Edit : Oh, and hi and thanks for making a Q&A.

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 20148 votes

Spells that interact with other missiles in flight is something we'll likely visit again at some point, certainly. No plans to do so in the near to moderate future at least though, that's gameplay space we've tapped into enough for now. Would definitely see a variant on that sort of spell someday though that's all about a single, brief cast, rather than an extended effect in the world, would have noticeably different use cases.

NullDragonJul 14, 20144 votes

Were any other shapes or blast patterns tried for Vel'koz's Q? (also am curious as to how the death ray came about on vel'koz)

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 201413 votes

Subninja, who did the gameplay design on Vel'koz, did try out a 45 degree split instead of a 90 degree one. Was generally both less useful and harder to land, so didn't show much promise.

The ult was driven by a desire to make a real disintegration ray, something that gave the player the feeling of melting a target under a blowtorch if they could keep the flame on it.

Zana LyranderJul 14, 20143 votes

Glad to have a chance to ask questions!

First question (if you don't mind me jumping right into things): I'm curious, when making a new champ, do you have a role in mind ahead of time, or do you just start with an idea and decide on a role as the creative process continues? For example, do you set out intending to make, say, a new support? Or does a champ you are working on just end up being a support?

RiotMeddlerJul 14, 20148 votes

We do have a rough layout of what roles we want to release over the course of the year. As a result if we're trying to come up with an idea for a particular release slot then yes, we do tend to target a particular role. Having said that if, during the exploration of a champion, we find out that a different role's a better fit for the character we're creating we'll embrace that new role and then usually change which slot we're planning to release said champion in.

The other thing though is that not all champion ideas are targeted at a particular release slot. Some are instead explorations of what might be cool, with no fixed timeframe in mind. Those by contrast are pretty open, with the goals (gameplay, art and story) eventually deciding what role's a good fit.