Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 6

RiotMeddler·12/6/2017, 4:54:00 PM·1 votes·57,154 views

Hi all,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped.

If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Zoe

Zoe's been fairly strong, hence the nerfs that just went out in 7.24. Our prediction is that those should be sizeable enough she won't need much immediate followup on power grounds, with changes like 20s duration on minion dropped W spells and a smaller radius on the E trap being particularly meaningful. We'll see where she lands though, with further power changes in 7.24b or 8.1 if needed. One thing we're considering doing regardless of power is potentially shifting some of her damage from base to ratios, with the argument being that she may be doing too much damage mid game even when she doesn't have much in the way of items.

In terms of RNG on Zoe's part, more thoughts on that, and RNG in general, in an upcoming post (probably the one at the end of this week, possibly early next week).

New Ability Icons

We've finally got some updated ability icons for Mundo, Renekton, Nunu and Amumu in patch 7.24. Took a lot longer than originally expected when I first mentioned them, since the artist who was working on them got suddenly pulled onto something else. Glad to have them done though and, while I wouldn't want to make any promises beyond 'sometime next year', we'll also do some further champs who've got old icons that look poor at some point.


Looking at fighter performance in 7.24b

As previously mentioned we'll be doing a mini patch in mid December called 7.24b that will have a bunch of balance changes in it (no other stuff though). One of our targets there will be helping out a number of fighters. Our plan at present is to use a combination of buffs to some fighters (Aatrox, Fiora, Kled, Olaf, Renekton), nerfs to some overperformers who surpress fighters (Teemo, Jayce) and item changes (Tiamat, Ravenous Hydra, BC, LDR). Most, or all of that, should be on PBE already. It will likely get iterated on during the patch cycle of course. Worth calling out the LDR change in particular, which is that the Giant Slayer passive now requires the target have 2000 more health than the user to get the maximum damage increase. We're looking to test that based off the observation that tanks in particular are generally 2000+ health up on LDR users. Fighters by contrast will often by around 1000 damage up, but aren't as often cracking 2000. Should mean lower damage output against fighters and other champs who build some health while maintaining anti tank damage as a result.

We'll also be looking at how the Bramble Vest nerf/Sunfire Cape buff in 7.24 went. A key goal there was to reduce differences in how well tanks and fighters performed in lane based off whether or not a lot of auto attacking was going on or not (how good Bramble Vest is). That meant shifting power from Bramble Vest to Sunfire Cape, which has a less variable output. It's possible that we may have also moved power up for tanks generally with that change though. That wasn't our goal, so we'll want to keep an eye on that as something to follow up on in 7.24b as well.


Game Pacing

We've also been looking at game pacing in general a fair bit recently, looking at things like how long games last, when towers go down, which lane tower first blood occurs in etc. Seeing a lot of discussion about those sorts of issues from you folks too. We've got a longer blog post on that coming sometime this month (exact date to be determined). A few observations that leap out for me though below in the meantime as well:

  • The changes in 7.23 (more tower health, more minion damage to towers, minions faster after 20 minutes) had almost no effect on average game length or on time of first tower fall (now about 6s later than 7.22). Our primary goal with those changes was to support split pushing a bit more, especially for champs with lower personal damage to towers, without making towers fall faster overall. We're not seeing towers go down faster post 7.23 which is good, we're also not seeing much affect on split pushers so far however, suggesting we've potentially been too subtle in our approach with that set of changes.
  • Average damage dealt is up somewhat, relative to before pre-season. Our initial assumption was that that would be coming from the Runes system, looking into it further it looks like one of the biggest contributors is the shift of a lot of supports to the Frost Queen's line from more defensive items, with associated shift in support champs picked to those who deal more damage anyway (and therefore like the FQ line being strong). That combination means both more damage dealers on a team and less champs peel/preventing damage, particularly during laning phase in bot lane, but also to some degree in later team fights.
  • Bot lane's also seeing more tower first bloods than previous (really low MMR take rate 44%-47%, mid MMR 47%-51%, really high MMR 55%-58%). We've generally felt around 50% of tower first bloods in bot is appropriate, given half the laning champs in the game are in that lane in the average game. That high MMR value is a point of some concern as a result, and suggests bot lane influence might be too high at least in that context. Need to see whether the fighter changes mentioned shift some of that back to top lane or not. If not might look at changes for 7.24b or 8.1, though that's not the only factor in considering tower and other game pacing changes.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

329 Comments

Akumu12/6/2017, 9:52:58 PM16 votes

Are you serious? You're blaming the damage creep on supports? Damage is straight up higher, burst is higher, never in LoL have i experienced literally instantly dying to various champions like this.

The 3 item Jarvan that did 1900 damage to me in 1 seconds is cause of supports too right? Makes sense.

Zagula Biggs12/6/2017, 6:22:00 PM14 votes

Hi Meddler,

Any changes coming to assassins hurt by the assassin rework like Fizz, Rengar, and Shaco? Also, any reason you continuously ignore any related questions unless it has to do with Leblanc?

Knightmare12/6/2017, 5:05:11 PM6 votes

Hiya, point of the celerity nerfs? Know some champ builds were exploiting it too much but not most that had it as their runes, why nerf across the board?

Shadow Hazard12/6/2017, 6:31:19 PM6 votes
  1. It seems that the sona changes have been felt to be quite heavy handed, especially after her first pre-season balance change put her in line, and now we have to also consider that aery got nerfed as well as klepto being nerfed, all leading to sona's effectiveness being quite heavily lowered. Of course people are worried of the history of champs having direct nerfs ->external factor being nerfed->doubling down an extra time for one more nerf to leave them in a piss state.

  2. A point in response to the thought that bot may have too much influence. Has riot considered a point that has been brought up multiple times recently is that the gold cost for the major items of ADC's vs fighters are quite significantly cheaper even though ADC's have the generally higher average gold income. Has there been any discussion about adjusting the prices of ADC items up and fighter items down to offer more equality in the comparative gold sink?

  3. Glad the recognition that the bramble+sunfire changes could end as a net increase for tanks power.

Axerito12/6/2017, 9:43:54 PM5 votes

What about Soraka? Will you give her compensation buffs when nerfing Forbidden Idol items? I know that these nerfs are made to keep Janna and lulu in check but Soraka and Sona will be left in the dumpster if these changes come live.

Megazoz12/6/2017, 5:45:40 PM5 votes

Hey Meddler ! What are your thoughts on Yasuo's state right now? , the removal of fervor of battle and attack speed runes really affected him [sg-soraka]

Erdamon12/6/2017, 4:58:33 PM5 votes

Any thoughts on how Rumble is doing and if he's going to recieve changes any time soon?

Krabby12/6/2017, 5:12:55 PM4 votes

with the new healthbar changes the color red which is used in the teamscore (and probably other places too) got changed and it made it really unclear, for me at least. and as far as I know I am not even colorblind. So this could be even worse for colorblind people.

What is the reason this color got changed if i may ask (not sure if I am asking at the right person, but might aswel try)

ImaginesTigers12/6/2017, 5:14:11 PM4 votes

A quick question: what happened to Xin's new splash art?

Sovereign Charm12/6/2017, 8:52:50 PM4 votes

A Rioter mentioned attack speed changes some time ago to make it easier to work with, regarding bases and percentages; any update on that?

Spideraxe12/6/2017, 4:56:58 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler I wanted to take this QGT to ask you about what happened to some potential balance changes that you'd previously mentioned like what happened to the Zac, Tristana and Twitch changes

Veraska12/6/2017, 5:45:58 PM3 votes

Howdy meddler how's ur week treating you? Also any personal opinions or feelings on assassin's in Midlane, from a competitive standpoint they're pretty absent (we got like 1 or 2 fizz games at worlds) what would it take for squishy melee champions to be viable competitively again?

Omituinen12/7/2017, 4:25:34 AM3 votes

Hi Meddler,

Hoping I'm not too late for a response, but as a support main, preseason feels really bad for me because it feels like damage has gone up by a lot, so my job of protecting/enabling my carries seems near-impossible when I'm playing from behind. As a result I'm concerned to see blanket nerfs to a big chunk of support items in the upcoming patch, because playing support feels really bad for me at the moment even though I've been maining it for several seasons now - even when it was regarded as a weak role.

Given that people aren't even really complaining about enchanters or supports in general that much at the moment, is the nerf to support itemisation a definite thing, or something you're just testing? And if it is a definite, could I get some context as to why, on behalf of all the other people who are still willingly playing support?

AirKingNeo12/6/2017, 11:40:36 PM3 votes

Anything on melee bonuses for Precision keystones?

Anything on buffing Aatrox by giving him a tank killing mechanic and making it so people can't completely walk out of his passive's Hellbent (like increasing Hellbent's duration and increasing his slow duration)? Similarly, anything on making BoRK a good item for bruisers?

Anything on the changes to Kayn (Rhasst)? He's suffering from an AD loss from not having Fervor of Battle which he used to boost his damage with his substantial AD ratios.

Jar Jar binks l12/6/2017, 4:59:29 PM3 votes

Volibear is a fighter, why he isnt getting any Buffs. Look at his winrates, he is RIP on op.gg.

Time4212/6/2017, 5:00:23 PM3 votes

What about those FPS issues? We really not going to be able to play 'till Jan/Feb?

Radiant Seraph12/6/2017, 5:13:26 PM3 votes

Anything to say about the AP pass?

AnataBakka12/6/2017, 6:33:30 PM3 votes

What do you think about Tham Phase Rush top lane/or any other lane (might even work as a jungler)? Is that 100% slow resist, which works on self slows, intended?

Also, when you said you had changes in mind for toplane i was hoping i would get a change on Illaoi :( A buff to Fiora, Renekton and Kled and Illaoi's bugfixes will be worth nothing.

Yowan12/6/2017, 5:01:34 PM3 votes

Hello Meddler ! Do you have any information on the Ryze issue you mentioned something like 2 months ago ? Is the blue dude still in your scope? 8.1 material ? I understand that balancing induced by runes has a much higher priority but just wondering if something is still planned for him ! Thanks

Linna Excel12/7/2017, 8:28:17 PM2 votes

Meddler did you guys nerf sona because you want enchanters to be out of the meta by season's start? Her win rate just dropped from 52% to 47% and a lot of her players are thinking she was overnerfed.

Looking at her stats, it seems like Kleptomancy was broken (also on EZ) not her.

Wobly12/6/2017, 6:25:35 PM2 votes

Are the Grasp changes on PBE something that would ship in 7.24b or 8.1?

Redesignated12/6/2017, 11:03:59 PM2 votes

Context on the nerfs to Forbidden Idol and its upgrades? Enchanters as a whole are unerperforming right now in the face of tank supports, why are their roster-targeted items having their primary focus weakened? Is there any attention being paid to the fact that nerfs to Heal/Shield Power also directly reduces Redemption's active's effectiveness, with Redemption itself having already lost a lot of value due to the removal of Windspeaker's Blessing in Runes Reforged (and Revitalize being a terrible replacement for most enchanters)?

Sexy Jack Rabbit12/6/2017, 11:11:27 PM2 votes

Be careful you don't overbuff like you did with Lethality. Camille just got buffed, and so did Riven, both heavy users of Tiamat and at times Colussus.

Be careful you don't just make Fighters and Bruisers OP AF again.

Penns12/6/2017, 6:11:53 PM1 votes

Idk but its probably not a good idea to buff "Fighters", nerf their counters, and buff their items all in the same patch lul

Golden Demon4412/6/2017, 5:00:31 PM1 votes

What about some jhin buffs he is very weak atm