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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 3

RiotMeddler··1 votes·105,598 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Thoughts on damage part 2

As mentioned in previous posts we've been looking at damage output, including what sources are contributing what amount of damage. Here's where our heads are at:

  • Burst damage is on average too high
  • Damage from champion kits hasn't changed much over time
  • Non kit sources have increased in damage however and more of that damage is being frontloaded (first AA and/or spell, rather than spread out over a champion's longer combat pattern)
  • A meaningful part of that is that damage from pre-game (Runes) has increased meaningfully for many builds
  • Some items have also skewed towards higher burst damage. Stackability's an issue there in some cases
  • We've likely got scaling wrong on some Runes at least, with many values scaling both with level and ratio. That makes output particularly sensitive to snowball, rewarding leads all the more and making it harder to fight from behind.

In terms of what we're planning to do, that's split up into two parts:

  • In the near future we'll be nerfing the worst offenders and tackling things that are easily addressed by balance adjustments (8.16 or 8.17, depending on when the work's ready)
  • For preseason we'll be doing a larger pass on non kit damage, with rune damage a likely core part of that, and looking at defenses, both base stats and those you opt into

Initial changes likely changes for that 8.16 or 8.17 work below, possible a bit more gets added:

  • Nerfs to runes like Electrocute, Scorch and Cheap Shot
  • Nerfing Duskblade's damage proc
  • Making Duskblade and Stormrazor share a unique passive

Scoreboard Ordering Bug

We've got a fix going through final testing at the moment for the bug where your own team's champions won't be correctly sorted on the tab screen. Original hope was to get that into 8.15, it ended up needing a bit more testing time than was available however. Should be in 8.16, apologies for the hassle on that one.

Nexus Blitz Framerate

Thanks for all the Nexus Blitz feedback so far. One of the most common themes we've seen is that some players are having really low frame rates, even though others (sometimes with what you'd expect to be slower computers) aren't having any problems at all. Given this is an non optimized alpha test that's not surprising, it does get in the way of gameplay testing though and of course is really annoying while you're playing. We're looking into it at the moment and it's one of our high priorities for the next round of Nexus Blitz improvements.


Run through of upcoming plans next week

Instead of a regular post mid next week we'll instead run through a summary of the issues we'll be tackling over the next few months. That'll include our current thinking on what we'll be looking to solve in preseason. Thoughts on that much appreciated, in particular given it's early enough we're still able to pivot quite a bit depending on what we learn.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

291 Comments

RiotMeddler21 votes

Couple of additions since time of writing:

  • Some runes nerfs should be on PBE today. Looks more likely those will be in 8.16 than 8.17.
  • Buffs to some tanks should also hit PBE today, with a focus on buffing the defenses on the tanks in question (Sion's HP stacking, Rammus's W, Naut's shield, Leona's W etc).
Metallikaiser2 votes

Hmm, I thought the buff was going to be to Sion's shield. I didn't expect a buff to his passive. This will make my Health Stacking, Titanic Sion even more glorious.

Caenen1 votes
Metallikaiser2 votes

Beautiful, I have yet to reach it, I think the highest I have gotten in a game was 9,400 health. One day.

RNG Unable15 votes

Hi Meddler, I would like to ask if the balancing team have forgotten about the Scaling Mages? Viktor Azir Veigar Ziggs Orianna Ryze Cassiopeia [cass-cry] ? Their process of farming to become the team fight damage dealer is very long, some even requires at least three to four items. There is almost only one defensive item they could get when facing a entire comp of AD assassins, that is item 3157 .

Ahpe4 votes

also please stop molesting nerfing Azir

AirKingNeo11 votes

broken design shouldn't be viable until fixed.

Vayatir18 votes

Why is Orianna in there when she's in 80% of pro games with a 50% winrate in solo queue? She's more than fine rn.

Minishcap110 votes

DoT champions should get an actual keystone since Scorch, Celerity and most likely Aery are all going to be getting nerfed.

Daoist9 votes

Hey Meddler, How do you feel about the current state of “Roaming Champions” in the mid lane? Talon AurelionSol Quinn Kled Do you think their ability to run away from the laning phase and snowball quickly from other lanes is unbalanced?

RiotMeddler13 votes

I think some champs having roaming as a strength is overall really good for the game. It allows different team comps and individual playstyles. Also helps create variety in lanes when some champs roam much better than others (so it's not always shove versus shove, roam versus roam on equal footing etc).

In terms of current power on those champs Quinn and Talon will get toned down a bit with the rune and potentially duskblade nerfs coming which I think's appropriate. Kled and ASol don't feel noticeably problematic to me.

Big Heart5 votes

can u buff zed meddler

RiotMeddler67 votes

We can yeah. I don't think we should though.

Yadid11 votes

Sassy Meddler is best Meddler. 😄

Keevalroy16 votes

{quoted}

We can yeah. I don't think we should though.

Now THERE'S a comment I never thought I'd see from modern Riot.

More of this please going forward.

EdgyLady8 votes

Hey !

Since item 3026 has now item 1031 in its recipe, can item 3102 have item 1057 ? I personnaly think that the recipe of item 3102 is not really adapted... Its a defensive item, but little defense is in its recipe. Maybe change the stats given by it ?

Other think :

What is the plan for defensive (tanks) items ?

Thanks for reading ! (and sorry for mistakes)

RiotMeddler18 votes

Banshee's has a Null Magic Mantle in its recipe to reduce the appeal of rushing a Negatron Cloak in lane. When we've seen heavy early MR investment be appealing it's tended to lead to AP versus AP match ups that get really defensive, with lack of ability to get sufficient advantage against your enemy laner. GA by contrast we're not concerned about being bought early, given how costly giving up other items is for its potential users. That's not to say we'd expect everyone to rush Banshee's of course with that recipe change, a lot will want to go some form of Lost Chapter item regardless. We believe it's enough of an issue we shouldn't change the recipe though.

No immediate plans for defensive items.

Ethical15 votes

Hi Meddler,

Hecarim Hecarim has been at bouncing between a 47-49.5% winrate for over a year now, and could do with a small buff in his current state. But in the recent post about potential rune nerfs (https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/OELP3huv-petition-to-replace-electrocute-with-thunderlords-decree?comment=000c) it looks you will be nerfing two absolutely core runes on him (sudden impact and celerity) as well as his statistically best performing keystone in electrocute.

Is there any chance you will look at giving him a compensatory buff? He hasn't maintained over a 50% winrate in a long time.

Salvor Hardın5 votes

I agree with your comment, and I would like the buff to be directed to the hecarim tank, and not to the hecarim full AD Oneshoot pony.

FlashnFuse5 votes

I'm glad Electrocute is getting nerfed. It's game warping in the worst sense, since it promotes a gameplay pattern where you just have to not interact with your lane opponent at all if you want to win.

Purple Death5 votes

Are you guys okay with AP tryndamere being pick or ban right now in High Elo? Has there been any discussion on how powerful AP Tryndamere is? His E comes to a 2 seconds cooldown when you factor in cdr and 1 crit and lower if you're lucky and has a 100% Ability Power Ratio, a 53% Winrate in games below 25-30 Minutes in Plat + I think he deserves a nerf to his E Ratio I'm fine with the build but I'm not fine on him being an urf champ in a normal game quite honestly.

Daddy Ants5 votes

Can you not go compensating every single Duskblade and Electrocute user on a kit level please?

The goal is to reduce damage, not give back the damage in kits instead.

Assassin's losing a bit of their burst from Duskblade and Electrocute is not bad for the game.

Means Zed has to actually land his stuff to kill someone. Means Talon has to do more than W Q Ignite to kill someone.

Duskblade nerf might even reduce Miss Fortune's oppressiveness slightly.

Also nerf summoner 14 ty.

Syllvanas4 votes

What happened to the plant changes for Zyra a couple of patches ago that were supposed to help her out a bit in midlane?

LORDCRUSHINGT0N4 votes

alot of people have asked this over at Tank changes for 8.16 thread but no answer at all so i will ask again here is shen or galio getting any love or are they tanks that get nothing?

Support Position3 votes

They wont get anything due to pro scene. All this company cares about. Took them this entire year and their finally addressing shit because worlds will be coming soon.

Ahpe3 votes

Hey Meddler what do you think of Akali right now after he release?

https://imgur.com/azPdU9b

You think it's just because her kit is so unique, stats or something else?

Leonerdo7 votes

Not Meddler, but maybe it's what you're looking for: Riot Blaustoise on Twitter

Basically, she's just a hard champion to master, but she's probably not weak in the long-run.

Ahpe1 votes

36.75% winrate tho

[zombie-nunu-tears]

Vayatir22 votes

We are not doing another Aatrox. Let's stop buffing champions instantly after release and see how they end up in a patch or two hmm?

RiotMeddler26 votes

We're expecting her performance to increase dramatically as people get used to her. Might give her a bit of extra MR in the near future, holding off on any other buffs though, try and avoid the overbuff.

ProfDrDeath6 votes

No one said Riot will not learn to be cautious with champions, eh? ^^

Vayatir3 votes

Aatrox sitting at 100% p/b in competitive on the current patch. Do you think it was a mistake to hotfix buff him twice so soon after release? He definitely seems like he'll need more follow-up work to power him down.

RiotMeddler5 votes

Yeah, we certainly overbuffed Aatrox in retrospect. Being much more cautious with Akali to try and avoid that. Expect we'll do some balance work on Aatrox pretty soon (possibly 8.16).

Nefas2 votes

Is there a champion rework or release this year that you’d say hasn’t been strongly overbuffed in short order? Some level of over buff is going to happen, but what releases and follow ups have been considered good internally at Riot? Most have felt like they were way over buffed to me.

Weedlayer3 votes

Pyke?

Vicimus3 votes

Finally some thoughtful directions. Might actually start playing again.

Jiaozy3 votes

Are you ok with Conqueror being this perma-active rune unlike all other runes in the game that have some sort of window to counterplay or trade into?

Wolfinator2 votes

Hey Meddler, was wondering when the next Champion Roadmap would be coming out?

InTheory17 votes

Next week.

RiotMeddler19 votes

{quoted}

Next week.

InTheory10 votes

tl;dr

RiotMeddler20 votes

Soon

Crocodilo Maroto15 votes

{quoted}

Next week.

RiotMeddler18 votes

[{quoted}](name=Crocodilo Maroto,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=yTorNEcE,comment-id=000c000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-03T16:40:46.000+0000)

Next week.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

Every time you nerf a class's rush item it feels like you leave that class without an item to rush properly.

Top lane tanks: item 3068 Enchanters: item 3174 , then item 3107 , then item 3504 Marskmen: item 3072 , then item 3031 , then item 3142 , then item 3031 again

Nerfing Duskblade will, once again, nerf the power of a class's first item spike. What do you expect assassins to build if not Duskblade?

TomiMan74 votes

Duskblade but instead of missing half of your abilities and still killing me you will be actually forced to hit those abilites to kill me. I dont see a problem with that

VeXuM1 votes

Hey meddler, any thoughts on Fizz? Definitely a lot stronger after the buffs. What about Ahri? She seems a little overbearing as well

RiotMeddler10 votes

Fizz we overbuffed and will be nerfing, still talking about whether to potentially hotfix on Monday or do so in 8.16.

No immediate plans for Ahri.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

RiotMeddler4 votes

We'll probably try some further old items out there. Do want to be careful about not introducing things that'll create problems, even in a less competitive mode, and about adding too much complexity though.

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