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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 23

RiotMeddler·3/23/2017, 5:12:23 PM·1 votes·70,344 views

Morning all,

Few thoughts below, quieter week at present as we're still pretty mid-season focused.

Stuff in mid-season

Speaking of which I wanted to run through a few of the things we've already talked about as being in mid-season since I've been seeing some confusion as to why some things aren't being changed right now. In mid-season we'll very likely have some changes to AD itemization, the crit path in particular, along with some defensive item tweaks. Also think it's more likely than not, though not guaranteed yet, that we'll have at least a couple of support item adjustments too. Those will be alongside the Vanguard updates as previously mentioned and some other smaller stuff.

Some context on balance changes on PBE

Jinx - we're exploring the concept of spell that can crit, but telegraphs that behavior heavily, with Jinx's W. Concept shows some promise, current numbers are certainly wrong though. Unlikely we'll ship any form of that change in 7.7, though it'll probably remain for a bit longer at least to get further testing.
Lux - Lux still does pretty well in low Elo's, we see her struggle a fair bit in higher divisions however. We're looking to add a bit of power that's mastery based as a result, provide more power when used well, less that's pubstompy. Not sure yet if the ult partial refund on kill's the way we'll do that yet, though excitement from players using it has been high relative to the amount of power it actually offers.
Graves - We're considering two different approaches for Graves. The first, which from memory is still on PBE, is removing the MR from True Grit, making him more vulnerable to some team comps (those with an enemy jungler with significant magic damage especially). The second is a reduction to Q damage early game (less base, more ratio mainly) looking at making his early game dueling in general weaker.

Galio

Has just had his update go out. Super early days, so far we're seeing him perform better top and mid than jungle or support. In terms of balance it's too soon to judge much, looks like at minimum he's not weak however. Whether that means he's around balanced or on the strong side we should start to get a clearer picture on soon.

264 Comments

Elementalist Lux3/23/2017, 7:09:08 PM51 votes

Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux

Consider letting Lux cast her W while moving.

If you cast Prismatic Barrier while trying to get away from a melee champion that's attacking you, it will often times just let him get an extra auto off. Which puts you in a dissatisfying position - Do you keep running hoping that he doesn't kill you before you get to safety or do you try to use your defensive skill hoping that he doesn't get in the auto which might negate your W and do more damage than if you kept running...

It's a major quality of life improvement.

Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux Lux

Notice me senpai.. It's been a dream of mine since weeks after Lux release..

Snoozzy3/23/2017, 6:16:40 PM25 votes

I must ask if the one punch Udyr bug was generated because you tried to change something about Udyr. I know you said that you guys tried stuff with him for a while (the level 20) and said that you are looking to give him something in 7.7. He struggles a lot in the early phases he needs either a buff there or a more rewarding mid game, or trying out a Syndra passive. Quick number changes might keep him in line for a while, he is too weak right now. (particulary Phoenix). Longterm for a rework or small rework you should keep some components I find core about Udyr: flexibility/versatility (role/builds/damage type etc), high uptime and maybe evolving thematic (as Udyr learns to control his rage, better came with the SGU rank 5s evolutions). I am a Master Tier Player with about 4000 games on Udyr and I really don't like how lackluster he is in season 7. I still think that the best option short term is to give him an interesting passive like Syndra's so he can feel a lot better about ranking spells and his mid to late game transition.

Siachi3/23/2017, 5:15:29 PM10 votes

Since we're on topic of some PBE buffs, any context for the other changes to champions like Bard, Kassadin, and Katarina?

If nothing else for Bard, I like that he gets his damage boost scaling more consistently, instead of bigger powerspikes every X chimes.

LastLightOfDay3/23/2017, 10:22:23 PM8 votes

{quoted}

Morning all,

Few thoughts below, quieter week at present as we're still pretty mid-season focused.

Some context on balance changes on PBE

Lux - Lux still does pretty well in low Elo's, we see her struggle a fair bit in higher divisions however. We're looking to add a bit of power that's mastery based as a result, provide more power when used well, less that's pubstompy. Not sure yet if the ult partial refund on kill's the way we'll do that yet, though excitement from players using it has been high relative to the amount of power it actually offers.

As a Lux main (also love the new lore, and fwiw I had this name beforehand), I have some input here. This at first seemed like areally awesome and broken buff. Late gaem, 15 second ultimate, literally every other rotation, On the condition you kill someone with the ult. Thing is, if you kill someone with your ult, you likely one-shot them, and the teamfight is already won. In nearly every case where this ultimate CD reduction proves helpful, you've already won. I don't see how this is "less pubstompy" if anythign it enchances her snowball ability and makes her teamfight more feast/famine(not that she really has a famine).

My friend and I (He's been diamond Lux since season 3) have been discussing various ideas. The most common sentiment among Lux mains tends to be shield buffs. In lane, I 90% of the time skill E-Q-E for trades, as it's just not mana efficient to spend 60 mana for the shield that you get half benefit on. It's fine against DoT's/ignite and feels pretty solid, but in every other instance it means I took a poor trade. I understand the previous nerfs were to the shield due to being extremely consistent as a laner, but that was a while ago in a different meta.

Here's how I see Lux. To carry, you almost always have to one-shot, and she frankly has the tools now, which is great. Locket doesn't grant MR anymore, and there are counterplay options in the form of the active shield, and edge of night as well. What Lux's weakness, and why she will rarely perform well in higher elo is priority. When someone roams she has minimal priority, many laners push harder than her, and are not 100% skillshot reliant and not so squishy as to get 100-0'd easily. But that's her balance point, in exchange for being able to sit at the back of teamfights and contribute she doesn't get priority. The problem comes when she can't do her job. Okay I 100-20'd the adc, now what? The adc heals up and it feels pretty bad :/ Her kit also allows for her to kite the frontline pretty well. Kind of. I don't see her kit needing more damage, so another place to give her power is her kiting power (but wait, bind is already 2 seconds and E had slow increased!) I know. So let's talk about her passive. Passive requires her to be within 550 range there's definite risk there, so let's place the utility reward. We could go for CD reduction, like 1(scaling maybe?) second on proc on enemy champions ( not opinions that'd be absurd), as then that increases her up time, for utility. Or give her movespeed, allowing her to independently kite champions like Shyvana better. However that seems rather oppressive in lane, especially with the E+auto+E combo already often allowing you to steal a free TLD trade with them having issues responding. So attach the movespeed gain to ultimate level. "When proc'ing passive against enemy champions, Lux gains 20% movespeed for 1.5 seconds" which then increases at level 11 and 16 (mid and late game). This way it's not oppressive in lane and gives her options later on. Alternatively have the movespeed scale with AP so that's not noticeable early game and then beceomes useful for positioning later.

Other suggestions I've seen are W shield slightly lower, but for every ally champion hit, the shield increases in size for the return path. I don't like suggestions to shield in general as it's highly variable and inconsistent.

One I think would be interesting is causing her passive to reset her auto attack, like Sona powerchord. When combo'ing it can sometimes be awkward, if I E(1)-q-r-auto, then sometimes they will dash out of the E before I pop it because I have to wait for the auto attack. Other combo is E-E-auto-Q-r-auto, but E-Q-auto-E-R-auto is usually smoothest, but causing passive to reset her auto would make it much smoother, imo.

Anyways TL;DR: this change seems to mostly be a snowball mechanic, relying on Lux's ability to oneshot, which generally means she's won anyways. This is a win-more buff, which isn't necessary in the higher elo demographic you want to help out. Most Lux mains want a shield nerf revert, which ought to be considered, since the meta has changed since that was nerfed originally. Other place to look at is her passive to give her utility, as she frankly doesn't need more damage. Passive interaction inherently is risk reward at 550 range, especially as the game continues. CD refunds based on the passive, or movespeed can reward Lux players for proper positioning.

Sorry for rambling a bit, didn't expect Lux changes to actually hit the PBE.

InTheory3/23/2017, 5:37:37 PM7 votes

[deleted]

WrongNeeko3/23/2017, 7:37:30 PM6 votes

become Nunu a Rework this year?

Soníc3/23/2017, 5:24:00 PM5 votes

While doing a pass of certain junglers, any consideration for Sejuani? Seems a tad on the weak side in general, impact in a game highly revolving around Ult with a kit which is basically a weaker version of Gragas's.

Siachi3/23/2017, 5:20:28 PM5 votes

After the Warden/Tank update, it's Divers next for class updates, right? Do you think this would be a good spot to look at Lee Sin's kit, or do you think he'd need more attention than that.

NaiveChocobo3/23/2017, 6:53:42 PM5 votes

Hey Meddler, Nami briefly appeared on surrender at 20's PBE notes, but with no info. Was this a typo on their end or are there plans for her? Thanks.

Krys Star3/23/2017, 6:07:39 PM4 votes

Meddler, will there ever be a chance that Talisman of Ascension builds out of Nomad's Medallion + Forbidden Idol again over Nomad's Medallion + Raptor's Cloak? Maybe I'm in the minority, or perhaps even the only person, but I used to love grabbing Talisman of Ascension as soon as I possibly could, even on champions it was less than favorable on (Sona, Nami, Lulu, etc). As soon as built out of Raptor's Cloak, however, I've neglected the item altogether.

Maybe I'm wasting my time, but I'd love nothing more than for the item to build out of Forbidden Idol again. I appreciate the bonus to healing/shielding so much, and I feel Talisman of Ascension is the support's gold income designed for the specific champions that actually shield and heal frequently to begin with. Raptor's Cloak just feels so out of place on Talisman of Ascension, whereas the bonus healing/shielding would be appreciated so, so much as well as the utility attached to it.

fartyolo693/23/2017, 7:13:27 PM4 votes

Will the auto attack reset bug be addressed as a hotfix, or will we have to wait until the next patch? Thanks

patmax173/23/2017, 10:57:38 PM4 votes

Why do I see this thread in chronological view? O__ò I want rioter rundown back! T_T

MagnumDongChapon3/23/2017, 5:40:11 PM4 votes

What's about Aatrox ?? still need help right now ?

LexZan3/23/2017, 7:51:32 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler, can you tell me if you still going to but those doran's shield changes which where long ago? Just want to know.

DCYOUNG8883/23/2017, 5:27:42 PM4 votes

Last week you said you're testing mr/level on champions that currently have no mr growth. Will you be giving Kassadin and Yasuo mr/level that other melee champions have since they are the only melee champions that lack this growth?

iGoogledYourMOM3/23/2017, 7:50:40 PM3 votes

@Meddler Could you please Add the Feature "Champion Highlight on Camera Center" to the "Camera Toggle Lock" as well? When HOLDING Spacebar "Champion Highlight on Camera Center" a Bright Icon appears on the Champion, that is If you enable it.

Currently this Highlight feature on works on Center Camera on Champion(HOLDING) & The Highlight Icon doesn't Appear for those using Camera Toggle Lock (Toggle the Camera Lock w/ a single Key).

Would really appreciated if you could add the Highlight to Camera Toggle Lock.

How is doing? Do you feel he needs further Buffs?
WHEN is the Nerf coming? He is oppressive to all MOST Melee Top Laner.

P3PI3/23/2017, 7:05:44 PM3 votes

What about the TP improvements on PBE? Didn't say anything in patch notes

Spideraxe3/23/2017, 5:22:32 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler do you know you guys are gonna release the list for small reworks since there are less this time around

Sir Nope3/24/2017, 1:31:24 AM3 votes

Where do you sit on Leona right now? I've been noticing that other champions are doing Leona's job better than Leona does Leona's job, but that might just beme.

Sire Hippington3/25/2017, 1:39:50 AM2 votes

Lux still does pretty well in low Elo's, we see her struggle a fair bit in higher

If you want to buff her in high elo without to much impac on low elo, then the soft reset on the ult is the exact wrong way to go about it. In Low Elo, squishys get cought alot more often in her burst combo and die to it. In higher Elos, the ult more often also is used to get opponents low so they won't contest an objective, ot for raw aoe in a teamfight rather than just a killing snipe. If you want to give lux more skill-expression, her E would be the first place to look at. Currently, there is very little use iin it's slow-zone mechanic, as instantly popping it is the right call ~90% of the time. Putting a bit more power in the zoneing potential of her E rather than just the poke/burst woud be a great way of increasing her skill-expression, as you finally would have to decide when to pop it rather than instantly explodeing it every damn single time. Or put some more power into her passive, like adding a few sec vision on the target when it gets popped, vision would be very fitting for a light mage and usually is more valuable in higher elos than in low elo.

WrongNeeko3/23/2017, 7:33:38 PM2 votes

Urgot Rework Patch 7.11 or 7.12?

MaIign3/23/2017, 8:20:58 PM2 votes

Are you still looking into Leblanc as people in competitive have already maxed W first on 7.5 & regardless we still have to Lvl up that ability second.

The champion doesn't function with a extremely high cdr w. Are you all going to look at her kit again since the rework?

Wofye3/23/2017, 10:07:05 PM2 votes

Are there any thoughts on what you said about making supports power scaling less dependent on gold income.

Example like Bard and his chimes.

Rengar Top Lane3/23/2017, 10:12:32 PM2 votes

Nothing about Rengar...? I mean former main and all, but you guys honestly pushed so many of us Rengar mains away because we did not want to play a bruiser nor a highly abusive champion. Our enjoyment was taken away and replaced with something designers thought was cool. Plus replacing his bonetooth necklace with ad steriods was just a slap in the face.

You know we dislike the new Q because it's aoe and doesn't give the stabby knife cat vibe anymore. We dislike the absurb amount of healing he does with new W, and we can tolerate the fact we are visible in ultimate now. Ferocity decay hasn't even done anything spectacular either, so I have no clue why it was added besides preventing bolas from ultimate. WHICH could have been fixed by making the bola duration shorter the closer you are to target.

Speak to us Meddler. Been in the dark too long. /r/rengarmains

SaltNPetty3/23/2017, 10:13:42 PM2 votes

Could we get follow up on the Lissandra changes?

Huudi3/23/2017, 10:43:52 PM2 votes

Graves is my highest mastery champion and I believe the latter approach is better. Graves was intended to be a marksman who can handle people who dive in his face. That is almost as likely to be a magic damage threat like Zac or Naut or Fizz as it could be Camille Sion Hecarim. It also conceptually weirds me out and seems forced.

Nergali3/24/2017, 6:21:24 AM2 votes

i dont get it why wasting time on lux which is really playable while there is dead champs like udyr!!!

Lord Desert3/24/2017, 9:21:55 AM2 votes

May I ask why the magicshield color was changed for colorblind mode? Im not colorblind by anymeans, but I find it easier to spot/keep track of myself in messy teamfights with colorblind turned on. This new light purple/pinkish color is very hard to see for me compared to the old purple. Why was it changed?