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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 18

RiotMeddler·10/18/2019, 4:43:46 PM·1 votes·103,746 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

League 10 year anniversary

We hope you folks all really enjoyed the 10 year anniversary stream earlier in the week. From our perspective it's been great to finally be able to share a lot of the things many different parts of the company have been working on for a while. The plan going forwards is that the teams working on each new game will be the ones handling ongoing communication about those games, particularly when it comes to revealing new details. Those of us on LoL won't be able to share news on those games with you all as a result.

PBE update next week

Next Tuesday should be an enormous PBE update as both the preseason changes and TFT Set2 go out. The plan is that TFT set 2 will then go live in 9.22 while preseason will soak for another patch to get more testing and go live in 9.23. We'll have some posts going up once everything hits PBE with a lot more details about what's in those patches, a few details below in advance as well though that, looking at current conversation, seem like they'd be helpful in understanding the direction we're going:

  • Elemental drake spawn With the new changes the first three drakes that spawn will always be unique. E.g. Ocean->Infernal->Mountain is possible but Ocean->Ocean->Infernal is not.

  • Minion XP changes As discussed we're taking some XP out of duo lanes and the jungle, then adding a bit to solo lanes. We're not going for a huge swing there though. Solo lanes are up 2%, duo lanes are down 2.4% and jungle is down up to 4% (less if you're getting catch up XP, so hard to quantify as exactly). We've kept level 2 breakpoints the same for both solo and duo lanes, so no one will need to relearn those. Jungle pathing should also be a bit more flexible, with XP removed from Krugs and added to Gromp to open up pathing more.

Vilemaw post Twisted Treeline Removal

We don't have any concrete plans yet but I do want to share that we're discussing possible ways to use Vilemaw in other game modes. Not sure yet about where that might be, could be things like an alternative to Baron on SR in some circumstances, a late game boss in TFT, a boss for an event game mode etc. Assuming we do find a good fit could also be quite a while before we had the right time to add Vilemaw to one or more of those modes. It's the sort of change we'd want to introduce in a preseason, a new TFT set, or an event mode that had a strongly matching theme, so the right opportunity might not come along for a while. . All very speculative basically, but wanted to mention we agree with the feedback that there's a lot of potential from using Vilemaw somewhere else so are looking into it.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

240 Comments

Rain Blue Flames10/18/2019, 5:02:31 PM46 votes

#FREE WUKONG MonkeyKing #SAVE WUKONG MonkeyKing

Rilea10/18/2019, 4:50:26 PM23 votes

Will the dragon spawn order be displayed in champ select? It's been discussed before, but with such dynamic changes to dragon, I think it's more essential than ever

Pokemichael10/18/2019, 5:40:31 PM17 votes

What ever happened to the MonkeyKing changes that were on PBE a couple months back? Were they scrapped? Similarly, what happened to the changes to item 3010 and item 3136 that were discussed a couple months ago?

Deathfall10/18/2019, 5:50:19 PM15 votes

Meddler, you made a comment about Karma on the OCE boards. You said you were going to bring up the topic about how certain champions are hard to work on because of multiple iterations of them. There is nothing about this. I tagged you on Twitter, multiple people have asked for some sort of subject in regards to Karma's current state, and the Karma community has a whole have been waiting for 6 years for Riot Game Developers to do meaningful work on Karma. The GU that was cancelled earlier this year, solved a few of her problems and part of those changes are not even being considered.

Karma's Problems

  • no streamlined gameplay identity and in some weird way she has 3 different gameplay identities.
  • she doesn't excel at what she is doing and where she is being played, compared to the other champions who do what she does better.
  • this champion is not fun or exciting when other champions have better mechanics and new ways to use their shield. her Mantra E is literally on two item actives. your fixation on the current Mantra E is holding Karma back from other concepts she could be doing with it. get rid of it.
  • she is a balance mess. you've buffed and nerfed her immediately way too many times to count. a champion that can do everything but not really be good at anything really isn't healthy for the game or the champion. she is horrible to play against when she is overpowered and she is not fun to play as when she is under-powered.

Karma now sits at a 45-47% winrate, which is the same exact spot she was in before you went on another journey of buffing the slow on her Q and matching the duration of the speed boost on E to the shield duration. You nerfed her further and wasn't even upfront with the fact that you nerfed the Mantra Q damage alongside the Q damage. You accomplished virtually nothing on this champion in the past year and you also cancelled a GU on her. Nothing has been done and nothing has been talked about. If you are too afraid to accomplish your goals and actually work on her, then you need to stop making excuse for the past 6 years. Just admit it already and say you're too afraid to work on this champion because you waited 6 years to even think about her problems and contemplate working on her.

You are going to have to double down on who and what Karma is in this game. This constant state of her being either in limbo to being extremely overpowered and horrible to play against, is not working out. You have no problem giving a direction to champions like Taliyah JG, Graves JG, Quinn Top, Lux Support, and much more, but the one champion that actually needs that work is ignored year after year.

What are you doing with Karma and how are you going to address her problems?

Jenivie10/18/2019, 6:55:08 PM13 votes

Any thoughts for Karma and how she's doing lately? Also, do you feel the changes to Conqueror and removal and Spear will help boost Irelia into a better spot next season? Hope you can answer back :)

Spideraxe10/18/2019, 4:46:53 PM12 votes

Hey meddler could you comment on Senna PBE timing and ship date, since it was mentioned she goes to PBE on the 29th so when would she ship since it seems unlikely she'd go out with 9.22

IxtaliKing10/18/2019, 5:51:16 PM10 votes

Hey Meddler, are there any plans for Karma during or after preseason?

Dreamhare10/18/2019, 7:15:23 PM9 votes

Hello, Meddler. What are your thoughts on Karma's state? This year has been a pretty busy one for her, with two Skins being released, her being featured in this World's song video and lots of confusing balancing tweaks. Isn't her way past messy kit worth being considered for a solid rework now? Your community loves Karma and it would be sooo rewarding to finally see some problems solving action towards her kit.

Autoestima baja10/18/2019, 4:47:57 PM9 votes

You can use Vilemaw for a Halloween event for example

Khaz Jin10/18/2019, 8:04:50 PM8 votes

Ctrl+F Wukong = Nothing thx u see you next time

Minishcap110/18/2019, 4:50:00 PM8 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/lY1Nkh9J-quick-gameplay-thoughts-october-3

Meddler, you stated 2 years ago during Runes Reforged launch that if champs who used DFT did not have something similar that was viable in Runes Reforged that it would be looked at. Singed was THE primary DFT user and he doesn't have any keystones for the last two years.

Is it possible to look into a Dot keystone for Singed? He has no real options that feel good to use.

Aery falls off very hard after early game and is tuned for supports.

Comet has anti-synergy with him because singed starts fights with Fling and he actually tosses enemy Champs out of comet.

Conqueror is only playable VS melees and requires ignite and proto belt (two big cooldowns) to be added into his rotation to proc it quickly

Aftershock is unreliable and he often just dies to CC and burst either before procing it or even during the buff. Also the resolve minor runes are just really bad for him outside of the tenacity rune and even that one is really weak. He doesn't get any damage or movement speed from that page which makes it extremely underwhelming.

Unsealed Spellbook became a lot less optimal after the nerf in season 8 and the inspiration tree overall has also been nerfed quite heavily.

Predator is a really unreliable cheese rune.

Dark Harvest requires too much AP to be used effectively and renders him way too squishy.

Glacial cannot be used because GLP doesn't give any hp and it's also redundant with RG because the AOE slow that glacial gives is actually weaker than the RG slow, so it doesn't even apply.

I feel like there's a space for other Champs to use a Dot keystone as well. Mordekaiser, Cassio, Malzahar, brand, teemo, Rumble, Darius could all use it as well, do it's not like a keystone would be made just specifically for singed. However, out of all of those Champs listed, he is the only one who suffers from lack of keystone.

VeXuM10/18/2019, 4:58:14 PM6 votes

Hey Meddler, what is warranting the nerf to bot lane xp? Is their leveling really an issue? I feel like in most games, bot lane is usually 1-2 levels behind solo lanes on average

Monkeytender10/18/2019, 4:51:51 PM5 votes

I know this is a reach as far as info you have access to/can share, but I’m just curious about that Zilean skin that was mentioned back in... April? Whenever that skin video that was made that talked about Shaco, Nunu, Ivern, and Zilean skins. The other three have long since come out but I’m curious if something happened with the Zilster. Not asking for a release date or what it is or anything like that, just wanted to know if something came up that threw a wrench in that original video’s plan or if that originally planned skin is still happening and was just always planned to be a later thing.

Smeagiul10/18/2019, 5:34:38 PM5 votes

Hi, Meddler,

What are your exact goals with the support changes ?

Queš10/18/2019, 5:11:01 PM5 votes

Will Jax or Renekton be compensated after Shojin removal/Conqueror changes?

For example Jax right now with all taht at around 50% wr

NovaPetals10/19/2019, 6:28:30 PM4 votes

Hi Meddler!

Will there ever be a time to update old spotlight videos to help new players?

Mikkeru II10/18/2019, 4:53:47 PM4 votes

Any discussions about decreasing the respawn timers for the jungle camps to create more diversity in the jungle? [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Peglaa10/18/2019, 5:12:21 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler, just a quick question. I read that you wanted to make the Rift Herald spawn twice per game now, why not make it one Rift Herald and then Vilemaw before Baron, if you are already looking to use it. I think one Rift Herald is perfectly fine and Vilemaw could be really interesting on the SR. Cheers!

EDIT: or it could be the other way around, make Vilemaw spawn first, then the void comes and chases him away and takes over the pit(Herald then Baron).

HayabusaTaichou10/19/2019, 5:49:09 PM4 votes

What’s the thought process on buffing solo lanes that when they are already the strongest roles at all stages of the game while also nerfing not and jungle which feel frustratingly low in agency?

Quinterro10/18/2019, 5:42:57 PM3 votes

  1. Are there any pre-season changes that wasn't in the blog? (yes or no question of course)

  2. Unless you give us information in champ select which drake will be the 3rd to spawn, Elemental Rift change is really bad because of rng. It'll be hard for pros (and overall players) to make a certain teamcomp because then it can be countered by changes to the map provided by the 3rd drake and other teamcomps can become stronger then they were expected. Showing in champ select which drakes will spawn can give so much spice to the champ selects at pro scene (and not that much to casual play, but it would have impact undoubtedly).

  3. Will item shop cleanup have effect on item icons? Most of them look old and awful. I know that changing them would confuse most of playerbase, but just making them look better would help (e.g. IE icon change form last season). Could you ask someone form art team (idk how they are actually called) about that?

  4. Are there any changes to Raptor camp in the preseason? I believe it should be easier to do because more xp is going to be on gromp. And how do you want to make gromp more valuable? Something like Krugs (Matryoshka style with bigger and lesser toads)? It should take longer to do Gromp prior to this camp having more xp inside.

SirGank10/18/2019, 5:09:07 PM3 votes

Hi meddler!

This may be a bit of a preemptive discussion, but are you concerned that level disparity between solo and duo lanes may be too great with this change? 2% sounds like a small number but small numbers can have big changes. What of supports in this circumstance, as they are always much lower?

Also the 10th annie stream was great. I did not sleep that night due to all the excitement and anxiety.

Happy 10th!

Lkr10/18/2019, 4:50:43 PM3 votes

Meddler,

please release victorious skin, we are waiting since 1 year... :D

Justazriven10/19/2019, 3:03:19 AM3 votes

Thoughts on Riven's Current State?

TheEndlessRiver10/18/2019, 4:47:07 PM3 votes

Are you worried that changing duo lane experience will result in bot lanes being too far behind compared to roaming midlaners? I know the changes are supposed to be good for top, but it seems like Mid will get much more powerful because of an even bigger discrepancy.

Jerarudo10/18/2019, 8:52:07 PM3 votes

A good use for Vilemaw could be to have him spawn after Herald and give an inferior buff compared to Baron and have Baron spawn after Vilemaw has been taken down in a similar way to Elder Dragon, or have Vilemaw spawn after Baron has been taken down as a way to give the team that has no baron a chance to comeback. Using him just for halloween in place of Baron sounds good too.

Guts Man10/18/2019, 10:02:54 PM3 votes

Can the Wukong rework be posted back on the PBE? That way we could at least figure out optimal builds before preseason...

Also, any chance in changing the reworked Wukong's Q to physical damage? That way, he could be still be played mid Lethality (while having his damage moved to the back end due to the Crushing Blows passive, so his burst won't be too high) and take advantage of the new Lethality items and changes.

SS5DEJAN10/19/2019, 1:49:44 AM3 votes

Don't ignore us Meddler give us monkeys MonkeyKing some bananas.

lol you wild wyd10/18/2019, 4:49:17 PM2 votes

Are you guys still planning to not change the game come mid-season?

I was expecting more systematic changes to items, runes (reduce damage and CDR), new runes/keystones. The rune system could use another re work, it needs more depth.

Also why are you guys adding jungle timers for normal camps? Why dumb down the role more?

meteorbreaker10/18/2019, 5:11:42 PM2 votes

Hello Meddler!

Maybe launch the last time Hexakill in TT? TT will be removed from game, can at least say goodbye to him? in this way)