Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 13

RiotMeddler·Mar 13, 2019·1 votes·150,971 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Kayle and Morgana

Some thoughts on what we're planning for Kayle and Morg now they've been out for a bit.

Kayle:

Is looking on the strong side. Not all Kayle's are doing well, but we're seeing a lot of power come as players get through the learning curve. We considered a hotfix nerf late last week but decided to hold off since her performance was very variable. What we're currently planning instead are some nerfs and some feel improvements in 9.6 as below. Overall expectation is that her power will be brought down, she'll be a bit more item reliant than she was previously and her W/E should feel a bit better to use as well.

Stats

AD/lvl: 3 >>> 2.5
AS/lvl: 2 >>> 1.5
Default for Adaptive Force now AD instead of AP
Recommended items updated to reflect power of Guinsoo's and BotRK.

MS %: 26 - 50 (+.1 AP) >>> 26 - 50 (+.08 AP)
Haste at end of 0.25s cast >>> Haste at start of 0.25s cast
No longer has ~1s cancel-able winddown after cast (could be canceled by spamming RMB on your target)

Fixed 0.25 second cast time >>> Cast time now scales with AS (like a normal AA reset)

Morgana

We're looking at Morg nerfs, with a focus on bringing her mid lane performance in particular down, since she's most out of line there. Aiming for a fairly light nerf right now.

Stats

HP5 5.5 >>> 4.5, given she's getting more healing via Tormented Soil

Total Min AP Ratio :: .8 >>> .7 (.08 per half second >>> .07 per half second
Total Max AP Ratio :: 2.16 >>> 1.89

Bounties

We've been doing some further work on bounties for 9.6 and will have post detailing those out later these week, most likely tomorrow. Key things we've been focused on include having CS bounties diminish if enemies catch up on your CS lead, a somewhat slower rate of CS bounty building and support item gold contributing to CS bounties for the owner since those items are CS replacements.

Clash tests follow up

As mentioned last week we had some Clash tests over the weekend in BR, LAS and LAN. BRs went fairly smoothly, LAS ran into some issues on day 1 which also appeared to a lesser degree in LAN on day 2. We're digging into those with the intention of addressing whatever the cause is before the next round of testing. EU's tests which were scheduled for this weekend are postponed while we get those fixes in place. More details to follow once we've got them.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

309 Comments

YL 666Mar 13, 201921 votes

Hey Meddler,are you guys still doing works on Wukong? Which change you made were promising and which not? Can you share them?

RiotMeddlerMar 13, 201962 votes

Work is underway yes. We've got some changes that have shown some promise in internal testing. Next step is to run some sessions with randomly selected Wukong players visiting our office to get feedback from them, see what their take is.

In terms of direction, best summed up as more bruiser, more trickster, less burst. Hope is that that delivers on what a lot of Wukong players are looking for and leads to a healthier for the game Wukong. Do expect some current Wukong players to be unhappy with loss of burst though and one of the things that testing's going to be focused on is what the ratio of satisfied to unsatisfied players looks like.

PronobissMar 13, 201928 votes

Please dont mess this up, Make wukong great again MonkeyKing

DoozkuMar 13, 20195 votes

I'm concerned about the trickster direction considering the last couple of attempts to create trickster champs have ended in total failure.

KÍNGKØNGMar 13, 201966 votes

Great News!!!!!! I play Wukong since Season 2 and got over 2 million Mastery Points on him on different Accounts. Highest Rank that i got with Wukong was D2! Also my whole Youtube is based on Wukong https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGNoCeS0J6B0FdXjBCNNO9A

It would be an honor to me, to be one of the testers!

Déjà WuMar 13, 201921 votes

Glad to hear that. While I enjoy burst assassin wukong I miss the days off bruiser wukong. Glad to see that is the direction you are going with him. Of you are looking for people to test it out. I would love the chance but feel KingKongLoL YT would be a better choice. He is a very skilled wukong player with tonnes of experience :)

JukKongMar 13, 20196 votes

We need more cc and sustain in him and a good usefull passive without completely changing his kit i mean add things and take some dmg i dont mind

Sharpest glassesMar 13, 20195 votes

> In terms of direction, best summed up as more bruiser, more trickster, less burst. Hope is that that delivers on what a lot of Wukong players are looking for and leads to a healthier for the game Wukong. Do expect some current Wukong players to be unhappy with loss of burst though and one of the things that testing's going to be focused on is what the ratio of satisfied to unsatisfied players looks like.

im fine with him being played bruiser but... trickster feel more like assassin. Hope he'll be healthier than Leblanc or Shaco reworks.

MankeyMadnessMar 13, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Work is underway yes. We've got some changes that have shown some promise in internal testing. Next step is to run some sessions with randomly selected Wukong players visiting our office to get feedback from them, see what their take is.

In terms of direction, best summed up as more bruiser, more trickster, less burst. Hope is that that delivers on what a lot of Wukong players are looking for and leads to a healthier for the game Wukong. Do expect some current Wukong players to be unhappy with loss of burst though and one of the things that testing's going to be focused on is what the ratio of satisfied to unsatisfied players looks like.

This is perfect, I couldn't ask for more. Im like Brendan Urie, got high high hopes. [slayer-jinx-catface]

All I wanted from WK was extending auto range, tankiness and reduced burst so I can buy item 3078 item 3053 item 3022

Lord RaphelMar 13, 201919 votes

**We want 550 of range on Morgana! **

Orianna has 525
Anivia has 600
Neeko 550
Ahri 550
Xerath 525
Lux 550
Aurelion Sol 550
Ziggs 550
Velkoz 525
Karma 525
Soraka 550
Lulu 550
Sona 550 Why Morgana has 450 Riot???????

RiotMeddlerMar 13, 201916 votes

She's got 450 because of her other tools which give her a lot of safety especially during the laning phase. Given she's a champ who's had insufficiently interactive early games historically at times would be hesitant to give her additional safety via longer attack range.

EyesOfTheFoxMar 13, 20196 votes

A stun, an aoe, and a shield. Several of the other midlane champs also have this. So this insight seems a bit lacking. Lux doesn't even have to be on the same screen to one shot you.

ShadowParkerMar 13, 201912 votes

It’s more so her waveclear lol.

She just drops w and farms almost the whole wave.

Hence she’s super safe compared to the other mages listed. Plus her spell shield is far stronger than all the other shields.

CosnirakMar 13, 20195 votes

She's slow, short ranged, and has 0 mobility. Her E makes her safe vs specific matchups (often vs specific jungler's ganks, not so much direct mid matchups). Her W makes her safe vs people who have no idea how to play against her mid and nothing else. That's not remotely safe enough to deserve 450 range. Her very high mana costs and base ability cooldowns already limit her ability to just press W and wave clear even against people who don't pull the minions out of her W.

RiotMeddlerMar 13, 201913 votes

I've got to post this and then head off to something very shortly. Will come back and get more responses to comments sometime later today.

Poolparty SauronMar 13, 201913 votes

What about Aatrox?

meteorbreakerMar 13, 201913 votes

Hello Meddler!

Is there any thread will be future plans for Coop vs All? Bug fixes and gameplay edits bots? Updating bots? adding new bots? Adding more sophisticated bots?

Lord RaphelMar 13, 20195 votes

This, please! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

RiotMeddlerMar 13, 20196 votes

It's possible some day, it's not something we're currently working on though. That's not due to a lack of desire to make Coop versus AI better, or lack of agreement there are a lot of ways to do so, but a trade off of where we have people work. Getting better bots requires a lot of engineering work in particular and engineers tend to be one of the most frequent bottlenecks on other projects too.

SpideraxeMar 13, 201910 votes

Hey Meddler, can I ask for the team's thinking on Manamune, since Scruffy was asking last night about wanting to make it more broad and Repertoir said you guys were looking into making it unqiue with Archangel's in 9.6

RiotMeddlerMar 13, 201912 votes

We don't have a firm direction yet, hence the ongoing discussion. Very likely it'll become a unique choice with Archangel's/Seraph's though as a starting point (you can only ever have one of the two Tear lines in your inventory and we therefore won't balance around the possibility of you having both).

HyxaruMar 13, 20194 votes

As a compensation, could you look into making Muramana more or less exactly like Seraphs? By exchanging the Shock passive for the Mana shield active and potentially upping the amount of AD it grants by default or mana conversion grants?

If not, could you perhaps consider making Manamune stack in an identical way as Archangel's Staff? That being, +8 mana instead of +5 mana, and not granting +5 mana for free on-hit? One of the critical issues with the item is that it stacks too slow for modern game pacing. Typically the free mana charge is not something needed. And, in my opinion, champions should pay a mana price in order to stack it.

Though admittedly, preferably I would not have Manamune and Archangel's Staff lock the other option out. I like getting both on Kog'Maw because of his hybrid scaling, but more importantly because he can actually use the massive mana pool with his high mana costs. And it isn't even strong on him, purely because the trade of early power for later power is too steep for Kog'Maw to not get abused by his opponents. Ezreal I guess sort of avoides this due to his inherint safety.

DJBlackVoiceMar 13, 201910 votes

Yo mr Med, can you say something about Shaco Shen Skarner Singed TahmKench Azir ? I feel like these champs are totaly ignored since 2 seasons. Also Aatrox got reworked and then nerfed into oblivion, with the effect of destroy everyone who loved him.

RenaiCirculationMar 13, 20199 votes

Is it planned to keep supporting Morgana mid balance-wise? I've been playing it for quite a long time and am nervous that her increase in play after the buffs will lead to consecutive nerfs to force her out of the role. The currently planned nerfs seem harmless enough but given Riot's past history with mage/supports I could easily see more on the way. I honestly thought she was fine pre 9.5 and the buffs weren't needed in the first place then (that said, the R buff does feel really good) so I'd be pretty bummed if she ends up getting whacked because of them. Prior to them, the only bans or complaints I saw were from Thresh mains. :P

RiotMeddlerMar 13, 20195 votes

We'd like to keep Morgana effective as both a mid and support pick. That's been the case for her historically for a long time, can't see any need or likelihood we change it.

BobaFlautistMar 13, 20197 votes

I think the reason Morg Mid Mains are concerned is that many of us recognize that a significant part of what makes Morg Morg and of what makes her successful mid relies on strengths Riot has tried to avoid and prune within the game.

Morg mid feels pretty damn reliant on flexibility, safety, and consistency, more specifically she will often play to reject or stalemate a lane matchup rather than actively trying to trade poke or pursue kills, and Riot has felt pretty aggressive when it comes to eliminating picks that can consistently stalemate a lane.

Ars ArcánumMar 13, 20199 votes

Why hasn't Quinn received any form of compensation for the nerfs from the item 3095 changes and the all inclusive bot lane meta of Season 8? She's terribly out scaled before she can even spike and has the highest death rate in the game.

Sona PingMar 13, 20198 votes

Morgana... with a focus on bringing her mid lane performance in particular down, since she's most out of line there. Aiming for a fairly light nerf right now.

Why look at Morgana mid with her couple percent above 50 winrate and her couple percent pickrate? If a couple of percent earns you nerfs, why her over the ones being picked in the double digits like Rek'sai, Vayne, Riven, etc.? Just because they're sisters doesn't mean they have to do everything together.

ApocalypsicMar 13, 20192 votes

As someone who’s been playing Morg, who also plays Riven and is getting into Kayle. Morg is the most inherently unhealthy of the three (not including runes or items.)

Hitting Q, W on someone and literally nothing else for a near one shot combo from afar is pretty heavy, especially for a champ with no real weakness in lane.

Not saying Riven, items, or conqueror still don’t need to take a hit though, simply that Morg doesn’t leave any room for counterplay once the binding lands.

Sona PingMar 13, 20197 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi im a Cat,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=xe4HBZAv,comment-id=00180000,timestamp=2019-03-13T15:56:36.633+0000)

As someone who’s been playing Morg, who also plays Riven and is getting into Kayle. Morg is the most inherently unhealthy of the three (not including runes or items.)

Hitting Q, W on someone and literally nothing else for a near one shot combo from afar is pretty heavy, especially for a champ with no real weakness in lane.

Not saying Riven, items, or conqueror still don’t need to take a hit though, simply that Morg doesn’t leave any room for counterplay once the binding lands.

The kayle bit was not serious, a joke you know.

"simply that Morg doesn’t leave any room for counterplay once the binding lands."

And Vayne doesn’t leave any room for counterplay once you've been Condemned into the wall so you cannot use your character. Udyr doesn’t leave any room for counterplay once he's already successfully closed the distance and has stunned you.

As we all see, that is a terrible argument; you can't talk about a lack of counterplay by moving considerations to only after the other player has failed.

What game state is it that these supposed QW one shots are actually occurring? And what would that look like on someone else. If Morgana is doing that and that if it was true that the champion has "no real weakness in lane" then certainly there wouldn't be literally over a hundred picks of champion and lane more desirable than Morgana Mid right now.

Two Right Wings Mar 13, 20198 votes

Please just leave Kayle alone and stop knee jerking. She's been forced out of every role but top, matches up horribly to every meta champ, and is a late game champion in an early game meta. Leave her alone and she will fall off the face of the game again so Kayle mains can get back to playing her.

As a 9 year Kayle main who's whole reason for installing the game was liking her character design in the promo matierial, this rework has been... rough. Every time you guys have ever mentioned her name it's been to gut her.

NeblinioMar 13, 20198 votes

Any news regarding support items? It's been a while since the "band aid fix", and I think it's time for a better long term solution. If my ADC dies or is forced to back, I shouldn't be penalized for the short time I'll stay solo in lane protecting the tower and poking the opponents.

ErenexMar 13, 20197 votes

Hello Meddler,

Anything u wanna say About Azir after his AS Buff and Zoe s current Situation? Also some love for Taliyah mid? Azir Zoe Taliyah

Very Cash MoneyMar 13, 20197 votes

Hi Meddler! Do you guys have any plans when it come to tank junglers? Primarily to seperate them and their strengths a bit. It feels like if tanks are strong it is mainly because of cinderhulk or some other item being very good on them. When that is the case usually sejuani and zac are the only dudes that really get picked because of their strong engage where the rest just kinda rot up. Very rarely does someone say "Man this game we need a Malphite/Nunu/Rammus/Zac/Amumu/Seju Because that champ excells at this!" Usually it is simply "which of these 7 champions have the best clear and engage? Seju? Well we go with her". There kinda lacks an identity for tank junglers that separate them.

I know you have tried a bit, giving Mundo the "Anti mage" look, making Amumu amp AP damage, but in the end it really doesn't feel like it has made any difference at all.

So yeah just wondered what your take on this was.

Marco1391Mar 13, 20197 votes

Hey Meddler!

Can you spare a word or two about Fiora? She has 46% winrate(op gg)/47% winrate(u..gg) and she's pretty awful overall after conq rework

UlkususMar 13, 20196 votes

Is rageblade a balanced item?

It feels like both a first rush and a endgame multiplier item for onhit, which imo doesn't seem healthy considering whenever I see e.g. vayne building it, their damage immediately spikes through the roof and they end up with about 33% true damage dealt even against a team without tanks.

For me, it would make more sense if you needed to complete e.g. two items to get to that passive, maybe like warmogs depends on a health threshold. Or, since I also find rageblade to be very hard to balance, maybe make it only work for item onhit effects.

Sir MarillionMar 13, 20196 votes

I'd love to see more VU! Zilean really needs one...

ChubblesMar 13, 20195 votes

Meddler I really liked the post by Jatt and Repertoir on the new balancing philosophy going forward. Thanks for all the communication you guys do!

RiotMeddlerMar 13, 20199 votes

Ah, cool! Good to hear, expecting we'll see more of that sort of communication from both of them :)

Mysticman89Mar 13, 20195 votes

Is there still work being done on a longer term solution to support items? Its pretty feels bad to miss out on frostfang poke gold if the adc isn't around (e.g. dead), or similarly when out on a solo warding mission and bumping into the enemy jg.

Fízz v2Mar 13, 20194 votes

Do you think Lich Bane is strong enough? I rarely see it built and champs that build it arent really meta except Sylas maybe. I think it would be nice to make it 20% CDR, like item 3071 item 3285 item 3025 etc. for other classes (if you treat Lich Bane as an assassin item)

BigsnaxMar 13, 20193 votes

i think what gates a lot of champs from buying it is how expensive it is. you buy it for the sheen effect that scales with AP, but have to wait so long for that effect.

DorkunedAurasMar 13, 20194 votes

Are you scared of overnerfing Rek'Sai, since her main source of OPness came from the new Conqueror, which has since been nerfed heavily. I'm just scared of my main being Sejuani'd and put in the gutter... again.

RiotMeddlerMar 13, 20195 votes

Yeah, we're being careful with Rek'Sai, given a meaningful amount of the added strength she gained was Conqueror. Looking at small hits to ult CD and ult AD ratio as a result only (100-80 instead of 100-60, 1.75 instead of 2.0 respectively).

PopCorn Chick3nMar 13, 20194 votes

Can Syndra W1 range increased so that she can pick up W easier after using the QE combo? Keep W2 range the same when she throw it. Thank you for reading.

Almost CreativeMar 13, 20193 votes

Any update about the new enchanter support? Like a reveal date.

KazekibaMar 13, 20198 votes

[{quoted}](name=London Bridge,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=xe4HBZAv,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2019-03-13T15:41:26.083+0000)

Any update about the new enchanter support? Like a reveal date.

As always, the reveal date is left to the discretion of the teams working on that specific champion. You'll know more when a teaser comes out, or any future Roadmaps. Riot does not divulge that type of information publicly, in order to maintain an element of surprise for the reveal trailer.

RiotMeddlerMar 13, 20197 votes

{quoted}

As always, the reveal date is left to the discretion of the teams working on that specific champion. You'll know more when a teaser comes out, or any future Roadmaps. Riot does not divulge that type of information publicly, in order to maintain an element of surprise for the reveal trailer.

ZaneShadowMar 13, 20192 votes

I saw a twitter post about a potential new Zephyr item. How has that reviewed among players and/or internally?

RiotMeddlerMar 13, 20197 votes

Hasn't tested particularly well. Was popular but pretty degenerate, given it let a strong lane counter become an all purpose late game item without sufficient trade offs. Trying a different direction for Wit's End as a result.