Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 28

RiotMeddler·11/28/2018, 4:37:26 PM·1 votes·162,811 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Preseason follow up: Part 1

Going to be mainly talking this week about how preseason's gone so far and what our thoughts on follow up are. Today's going to cover a bit about our approach, plus context on how why we're targeting various specific changes in 8.24. Friday's post will then focus on larger issues rather than specific champ/rune balance. Quick timeline:

  • Last Week - Preseason gets released in 8.23.
  • This week - We've now had time to get a solid initial picture of where preseason's landed so we're working on getting some balance changes into 8.24. Patch has to be locked down today, so the focus is on hitting a range of quicker to fix issues like individual champion balance that don't require longer development and testing. Those changes will go out next week in 8.24
  • Later this week and next week - We'll be working on a patch 8.24b which will get released sometime mid December. It's a 'b' patch because it won't contain new content like skins or game features, instead being a purely balance focused patch. Changes will generally be adjustments to numbers, rather than new or heavily modified functionality on abilities, items, towers etc. Expectation is we'll probably work on addressing some larger issues in this patch, though some things could instead be in a patch early next year if they need more than a couple of weeks of development.
  • Early next year - Goal is to get larger changes into the first couple of changes, then once Ranked season starts, have a more stable period.

Balance Changes in 8.24

Runes

  • Dark Harvest Nerf - Dark Harvest's still looking too universally effective and on too many champs too powerful. We'll be cutting its base damage (20-60 instead of 40-80) and making it so it can't trigger off proc damage to make it less in-discriminant. Hitting base in particular to reduce its lane bullying potential, would like picking a scaling rune like this to come with more early game trade off. Once those changes have hit we'll then see if we should also be considering changes post 8.24 to the reset (should it be longer, or potentially removed?) and health threshold for the trigger (would 40% instead of 50% be more appropriate?). Don't want to hit too much at once though and overcorrect, hence a couple of changes next week with further follow up if needed.

  • Raptors - Pushing back the Raptor camp spawn time slightly (1:30 instead of 1:27) so that a few champs (Karthus and Aatrox especially) can't clear it then still get all of the first minion wave as easily.

Champions:

  • Viktor Nerf - Looking to bring down top lane Viktor in particular, hopefully hitting it meaningfully without pushing him out of top completely. Likely involves hitting Q base and/or CD, then buffing Q and/or E ratios.
  • Irelia Nerf - Taking some power out through simple numbers changes right now, then likely following up with some larger work in a later patch. Probably removing power from her W primarily.
  • Aatrox Nerf - Removing Q's bonus damage to monsters to chip mid Aatrox with Smite down a bit (also cleans up an unnecessary mechanic on the Q as a bonus).
  • Akali Nerf - Taking some general power out now, then looking at larger mechanics changes later. Not sure on direction of either at time of writing.
  • Jax Nerf - Looking too strong, especially in the jungle. Just taking a bit of power out somewhere.
  • Camille Nerf - Looking to trim her jungle power in particular, laning to a lesser degree. Might involve lower base AS since that disproportionately affects jungling.
  • LeBlanc Nerf - Cutting some power. Direction to be determined still, probably something pretty straightforward.
  • Illaoi Buff - Potentially giving her lower CDs on an ability to two. Confident we should be buffing her a bit, still discussing exactly how though.

Stuff discussed that's not in 8.24

Champs

  • Pyke Nerf - We think Pyke's too strong when he gets a gold/XP lead going. Going to be looking at his scaling and/or rank ups as a result. Play rate's currently fairly low, but solo lane Pyke's looking real strong, so likely that's a large part of the focus of this work. Likely changes in 8.24b.
  • Karthus - Has benefited a lot from easier access to Presence of Mind and Last Stand (no forced attack speed), both of which are much more effective on him than on most champions. Still assessing him, including bot lane play, where's he's also looking strong, but still a pretty rare pick.
  • Taliyah - Starting to see her performance jungle recover after the changes. Continuing to watch for now.

Runes and Items

  • Guinsoo's - No changes currently planned. Changes don't seem to have impacted its users much so far, with the exception of Kai'Sa who seems somewhat less bound to it. More a sidegrade for the others however. Nothing looking out of line, not a clear success at least initially either though.
  • Celerity - Is a strong choice on a limited number of champs, much weaker choice on many. Not sure yet if it's now too niche, versus its previous too broad status. Possible it's a bit weak/narrow over all, want to take a bit longer to see how it goes though, especially since we're still seeing a lot of players haven't adjusted their rune pages to add or remove it where appropriate yet.
  • Presence of Mind and Absolute Focus - Are both looking pretty strong, but sufficiently we think they need to be acted on at present though.

Likely topics for Friday's post

Going to focusing Friday on systemic topics we'll be looking into after the 8.24 work above. Likely includes some updated thoughts on ongoing assessment of tower stats/rewards, potential resurgence of gold/xp funneling and/or laneswaps, recent player discussion about power and feel of marksmen.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

483 Comments

YL 66611/28/2018, 4:57:29 PM25 votes

Will we see some Wukong's passive change? Or any Wukong change in general by the end of 2019(so till next year) at least?

Eleshakai11/28/2018, 4:39:40 PM24 votes

Hey Meddler, high level question here: What do you guys feel an enchanter SHOULD be in League?

Right now, it really feels like enchanters are just nerfed into irrelevance, and if any ever get even remotely useful they need to be nerfed again(see Nami).

It's sad, because I love enchanters... but in the current gamestate, they just feel so hard to actually DO anything with(aside from Nami, again)

TCrookz11/28/2018, 4:46:49 PM21 votes

Still not looking at adc or adc itemisation changes?

SnugglePuggle9411/28/2018, 5:21:18 PM18 votes

#RevertRunesReforged!

We never asked for runes to be changed. Or our masteries taken away. We asked for runes to be FREE.

This system needs to GO.

Akali is SO HOT11/28/2018, 5:03:30 PM18 votes

I was wondering if your team had considered removing Akali's stealth from towers so that she would be able to get compensation buffs somewhere instead of constantly being nerfed.

A lot of Akali players seem to at least be interested in discussing something like that. Would be cool if you guys had any thoughts on her shroud.

Edit: She would still retain her obscurity from champions while under turret, but turrets would be able to target and damage her while obscured for example.

Egg McMuffin11/28/2018, 4:52:35 PM14 votes

Any changes to crit items in season 9?

Queš11/28/2018, 5:27:53 PM12 votes

What about nerfing Jax s base AD to something like 65 from 70,but increasing AD per level(so it evens out at lvl 18,sinсe he is so reliant on triforce),this way he will be much more reasonable early game and during first clears in jungle for late game scaling carry.

Or maybe nerf his base E damage since he relies on it too much in lane and jungle both,something like 50 base dmg lvl 1 -> 20 base dmg level 1 (20-140 from 50-150)

K0ly011/29/2018, 8:20:33 AM10 votes

I think Garen should get a buff or at least nerf darius because his passive damage is too much. Buff Garen's ult.

Daddy Ants11/29/2018, 3:10:25 PM9 votes

Revert Crit (Mainly IE and Essence Reaver. I miss playing Xayah and Ashe with ER)

Remove Stormrazor, the item is toxic as fuck.

ModKnightsKemplar11/28/2018, 4:45:57 PM9 votes

Awesome update, thanks! Very glad to hear Dark Harvest is getting immediate attention. As a player, I would feel much better if the hp threshold for the proc was lower.

Question about something that you left out; I'm wondering where the team landed with Spear of Shojin? Last I heard, you were going to try to get it in with preseason, but looks like you weren't happy with the iterations that you had. Can you expound on that a bit? What was the problem with the concept and do you think it will make a comeback at a later date?

DCYOUNG88811/28/2018, 4:52:00 PM9 votes

Are the Sejuani, Ornn, and Galio changes going to return for testing on the pbe (with a different set of changes hopefully for Sej and Galio) and if so will they be released on patch 8.24b or later?

Wolfearent11/28/2018, 4:42:05 PM8 votes

Do you have any plans to help out Xayah ? She has been in a rough spot since mid season and it just hurts to watch her win rate get lower and lower. :((

rapid 11111/28/2018, 8:57:16 PM8 votes

Are you guys not going to comment on the state of botlane AT ALL? Do you think it's healthy for only Lucian & Draven to be viable as ADCs bot?

C9 Negev11/28/2018, 7:41:01 PM7 votes

Could we go more in depth on the Jax nerf?

Seraphim11711/28/2018, 8:54:32 PM7 votes

Gangplank buffs? No? Alright.... cries even tho he doesn’t really need that bad and I’m just greedy and insulted by klepto change

VeXuM11/28/2018, 4:57:40 PM7 votes

Any thoughts on essence reaver? Would be nice to have a crit version again

SilverMaster11/28/2018, 7:32:16 PM7 votes

What about the fighter items? Like Spear of Shojin or Atmas. Will they ever hit the rift?

SlashStriker11/28/2018, 7:34:12 PM6 votes

Meddler, You guys said you are trying to make a comeback to the losing team yet the new turret plating system snowballs the winning team even harder. It just doesn't seem right that you are already quite behind and you get further behind by not being able to destroy a single turret plate while enemies get massive gold advantage by doing so

To make comebacks more achievable for the losing team I would like to suggest when destroying a turret plate it grands:

  • 50 gold if you are on the winning team
  • 150 if you are on the losing team
  • turret plates should stay until destroyed
DCYOUNG88811/28/2018, 4:52:43 PM6 votes

Thoughts on Shyvana Shyvana with the current jungle?

supercoolisaac11/28/2018, 4:59:39 PM5 votes

Hey Meddler, wondering if we can get the teams/your thoughts on Hail Of Blades? I can't think of a single champ that performs the best with it as their keystone, even the fringe cases seem kind of troll. Wondering if there's some data that says otherwise maybe. Feels like ever since its release it's been super lackluster. Anything in the works to fix it or maybe replace it with a different keystone?

Buff Riven Plz11/28/2018, 4:42:07 PM5 votes

Hey is here any chance we could get the Cleaver build path changed back toitem 3133 and item 3044 thoughts on this?

lol you wild wyd11/28/2018, 4:50:41 PM3 votes

Hey :D

Are we going to actively see an effort to reduce the rate of change relative to the normal rate that we've seen throughout the span of League? I understand the possible caution after the change in patch cadence that was applied in mid-season but going back to the older iteration of patches will solve that problem right?