Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 15

RiotMeddler·11/15/2019, 5:38:19 PM·1 votes·104,605 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Thoughts on Senna so far

Initial thoughts on Senna below. It's still early days so these are more current observations than things we're extremely confident in.

  • Senna's looking a bit stronger than we predicted she'd be in her first few days. She's not sufficiently powerful to currently need balance changes however. She might end up being too strong in a while, depending on how her power grows as people master her kit, we'll wait and see before jumping to any conclusions though. We don't have any changes for her in 9.23, intent is to assess her again once we see where the combination of preseason changes and increasing player experience with her ends up.
  • From what we've seen she's effective as both a support and an ADC as hoped. Early indications are that both Lethality and Enchanter style builds are reasonable choices on support Senna.
  • Two of Senna's intended weaknesses seem to be present as hoped so far. She's vulnerable to getting jumped on and is more vulnerable to skill shots/AoEs while attacking, given how long her attack frame immobilizes her.
  • Senna's clearly too strong on ARAM. We're cutting her soul generation on ARAM back down to the same rates as on other maps as a result in 9.23. It was set higher for launch since other stacking champs have needed accelerated stacking on ARAM to avoid being excessively weak. That doesn't seem necessary in Senna's case now that we see how she actually performs in ARAM.

Kit Updates and the dangers of creating multiple incompatible audiences

A problem we've noticed with champions who've had their playstyles change really substantially is that we end up with multiple potential audiences for those champions whose needs can end up being incompatible. Karma's a particularly good example of that, with significant playerbase segments who want original Karma (1.11 to 3.4), initially reworked Karma (3.5 - 5.9) and current Karma (5.10+). While there's certainly overlap between what those groups want from Karma as a character there are also substantial differences. For cases like this as a result meeting the needs of one group can often come at the cost of excluding others. That's not a unique situation to kits that have been changed a lot, but it is a particularly amplified one. Other clear examples include Graves (bot lane players wanting a more standard ADC experience versus other players after the jungle/short range version) or Le Blanc (original/current kit versus the less bursty more clone focused kit the assassin update tried).

Going forward there are two things in particular we're keeping in mind for the next time we get a situation with incompatible group needs like that. The first is to try and identify cases where we've missed the mark for existing players quickly and then, if feasible/appropriate, adjust things before a significant player group become attached to the new form of the champion. Reverts like with Kog, LB and Rengar are examples of where that overall went well in our eyes since they happened comparatively quickly. The second is to avoid splitting audiences again if at all possible. Trying to serve two distinct audiences is tough already, adding a third direction to the mix makes it much harder again and all but guarantees we’'ll be leaving a lot of players unhappy.

Some significant bugs being worked on

While I don't normally get into individual bugs here I figured these three had a wide enough impact that an update would be appropriate:

  • Camera locking sometimes even though you're playing with unlocked camera

We've got a fix for an issue causing this and will have it in 9.23 next week.

  • Client minimizing sometimes mid game when extra mouse buttons are pressed

We've got a lead on this one but don't have a fix yet.

  • Client Freeze/Crash in loading screen

This one's proven hard to track down a cause on. At time of writing we've just identified a possible cause and are about to start looking into what a fix would look like and what sort of timeframe that would involve.


Upcoming TFT Patches

Overall we feel the new TFT Set is in a pretty good place balance wise. We'll be making moderately sized changes only as a result as we head into the start of the ranked season for TFT next week. We're expecting that some strategies will become clearly strong once ranked turns on and people start playing more optimally. Overall though we're cautiously optimistic based off play so far that Rise of the Elements will be easier to keep a wide range of comps viable in at once than Set 1 was, due both to the pool size changes and the design of its traits.

In patch 9.24 (last major patch of the year) we'll then be introducing a few new units to round out the roster a bit. Expect to see those on PBE next week, with two of those units being from a new class.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

257 Comments

RiotMeddler11/15/2019, 9:19:42 PM18 votes

One update here - I'd forgotten that 9.23 was a three week patch. That means new content will be on PBE the week after next, so around the 25th.

2MuchDog11/15/2019, 7:44:04 PM18 votes

On the topic of divisive reworks, recently Aurelion Sol, who was my and many other people’s favorite champion. But his rework destroyed a lot of what felt unique and interesting about him, being that you aren’t a burst mage you’re a dps zoning machine. Positioning around the constant stars was such an enjoyable experience, going through teamfights in his cosmic dance of kiting and positioning. Now he feels more binary, less interesting, and much more frustrating to play. Many of us old Aurelion Sol mains feel alienated now, that there is no champion that brings the same experience. I’ve tried and tried to enjoy it, but the reworked version of Aurelion Sol feels so wrong, it’s depressing to play something that’s pretending to be the champion you love but is just too different. What would it take for a revert of this champion to even be considered?

IxtaliKing11/15/2019, 6:00:12 PM14 votes

Hey Meddler, in regards to Karma: what's stopping her from seeing changes similar to LB, Kog and Rengar? When NC was announced to be working on Karma, that was what was expected to happen - which made the end result confusing and disappointing for much of the community.

Her 3.5 - 5.9 and 5.10+ versions are similar enough not to cause much disruption, and undoing certain changes from the 5.10 version could solve some of her current game health issues.

Warden Karma11/15/2019, 6:25:19 PM10 votes

Hey Meddler,

Since you have mentioned Karma and pointed out her splitted playerbases, I am curious how you want to handle her? You said she is in need for work quite some time ago (and many Karma players agree to that); also all tries to unify her playerbases/ update her gameplay failed so far from Riots side, even when done by someone who really cared about Karma.

Its no secret that she was released in a hurry and she feels unfinished, lacking thematics, visuals and a coherent kit (Twin Dragons?). Since 5.1. she apparently has also become more and more of a problem game health wise.

Could it be that Karma is in need of a much bigger update than previously thought?

Valor Bot11/15/2019, 6:11:46 PM9 votes

Do you think Quinn falls under the 'incompatible audiences' issue? Many players seem to want the melee assassin playstyle back as Valor, but there are also those who picked her up after the rework and thus prefer the current map mobility-focused ult.

Personally, I wonder if there's a way to satisfy both parties, maybe by combining the two ults for example--though I'm not sure how sustainable that'd be balance-wise.

Excruciate11/15/2019, 5:44:31 PM8 votes

We've got a fix for an issue causing this and will have it in 9.23 next week.

Client minimizing sometimes mid game when extra mouse buttons are pressed.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Neamean11/15/2019, 5:48:19 PM8 votes

Kit Updates and the dangers of creating multiple incompatible audiences

Would Shyvana be under this. With her current ap playstyle vs her bruiser play style.

RB7311/15/2019, 7:22:13 PM8 votes

Hey Meddler.

In regards to the split audiences, how to you feel the Aurelion Sol changes have landed? It seems like his playrate has remained relatively unaffected despite the changes being very devisive among mains. People seems to either love or hate it.

CyberBalt11/15/2019, 10:09:52 PM7 votes

Regarding your point about kit updates: please pull back some, if not all, of the Aurelion Sol rework. Whatever it takes to make stars a toggle again, at the least.

ProfDrDeath11/15/2019, 6:11:18 PM7 votes

Regarding Split Audiences:

Quinn - Any chance we might see some elements of her old Tag Team ult back? To quote an old idea of mine:

  • Ult changes to Valor, 125 range, instead of just taxibird
  • Quinn and Valor share cooldowns
  • Valor Q is PbAoE
  • Valor E dashes him in AA range of target
  • Harrier (passive) remain active as Valor
Spideraxe11/15/2019, 5:42:39 PM7 votes

Hey Meddler can I ask if you guys are still working on the Yuumi changes and what did you think of worlds

happy even after11/15/2019, 6:41:27 PM5 votes

Hi Meddler! I know that you're not in the skins team, but recently you said Zilean skin is delayed, is it delayed until next year?

Also, do you have some kind of a list for champions that are considered for smaller gameplay updates, like Azir or Xin Zhao had? If you could share it, it would be great :)

Velasan11/15/2019, 7:50:17 PM5 votes

Splitting audiences has been something most of the reworks have done. Interesting to see a focus on it now so many seasons later since there have been a number of reworks already. Some cases of splitting audiences:

  1. Old Viktor was a sieging mage with a silence who focused on long range laser snipes and staying away from the enemy. New Viktor (comparatively, at this point he was reworked a long time ago) is more about lining up Q hits and kiting around medium ranges.
  2. Old Skarner used to be a bruiser focused on repeatable crowd control, the new one (with spires) seems to be very focused on being an engage tank who exists for R.
  3. Old Aatrox was an on hit champion with his revive, and the new one is an ability based champion who layers crowd control in team fights similar to Riven.
  4. Old Sejauni had less crowd control, but a stronger R, and now is focused around stacking her E.

There are more, and I was glad to see the Zac revert as the old reworked ultimate of grabbing enemies was never going to be balanced for the long term. More recently the Swain rework was a large departure from his original play style (DoT oriented lane bully to mid game catcher). Although have to appreciate that KingCobra put in a lot of time talking with Swain players a few patches ago when they added the HP stacking from souls.

Is this a concern for the upcoming Volibear and Fiddlesticks reworks?

Gradeient11/15/2019, 6:59:56 PM4 votes

Hello Meddler,

There´s been other bug and it´s aparently happening in-game: Huge FPS drops are happening for some players on different devices and I would like to know if you´re aware of it. Thanks for the attention, wish you a good day.

Saelon11/16/2019, 1:24:48 AM4 votes

Please god do something with Karma, you guys missed the mark so hard on her since her rework. Changed from something that has a unique identity to the most jack of all trades basic of champions. She's able to fill so many roles because of how badly designed she is.

Took her fans, her unique passive, her unique tether, and then after all of that you guys said bye bye to shield bomb, the last thing unique about her in any way. Her ult isn't unique, her abilities aren't unique. She's literally just a boring kit but thanks to the Karma I used to play I am still in love with her. Please fix the mistake you guys made years ago.

ModThe Djinn11/15/2019, 6:17:55 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler!

Quick question about Omnistone. An initial look at it (and some PBE experimenting) makes this rune appear largely mediocre, as you have to constantly pay attention to which rune you're given (sometimes in tense situations), and you can't be sure you'll actually get runes that meaningfully benefit you -- and, perhaps more importantly, you're trading a known quantity you can plan your laning phase around for one that's in the hands of psuedo-RNG. In short, it feels like a rune that requires a lot of attention and may only be viable if it's fairly heavily overtuned in terms of overall keystone usage.

In your testing, have you found situations where this rune is the optimal one? If so, on what characters? If not, are you content with this being more of a "fun RNG" rune?

Nascy11/16/2019, 4:31:14 PM3 votes

Adding to the Taliyah talk earlier , it seems very likely Taliyah jg will be fairly strong with the jungle changes while her counters are being nerfed. May want to look into that. 4 camps into scuttle is possible while being healthy and for better players going 5 is likely. 9.24 tali revert?

As for tali pre and post 8.11, i dropped her completely after 8/11 as she stopped being fun. Last champ i wanted to call myself a main of ever since trying her without dropping them despite no changes. ARAM main since. ppJedi

Sexy Jack Rabbit11/15/2019, 5:45:07 PM3 votes

Hey meddler! It's nice to see you posting again! Just a few questions!

How long will the winter break be this year and when abouts do you think it'll start?

Do you think Taliyahs rework was a case of dividing her player base like others? I find the removal of her AOE Q really stunted her playrate.

Curious about your thoughts so far about including TFT in your gameplay thoughts, what's the reaction been so far?

Have a nice night!

i4got2pull0ut11/16/2019, 8:02:53 AM3 votes

Why does Riot seem to hate Aurelion Sol...

Sanctuar11/16/2019, 2:40:05 PM3 votes

The only thing i miss about old Karma is the ability to use your W on allied champions.

Could imagine some Knight's Vow effect when linked. Combining this with the actual Knight's Vow might be too overpowered though...but since she can't heal allied champions with any of her abilities it might make sense to focus on damage redirection (since damage reduction has also been introduced on Leona's W). Considering Knight's Vow's effect is reduced for ranged champions (6% for both dmg redirection and healing), it wouldn't be too op imo.

This change could also mean Karma players would have to decide whether to use W on allied champions to redirect damage from them or use it to root an enemy (or if low hp, using the empowered effect to heal themselves as well).

Just throwing this idea out there.

DCYOUNG88811/15/2019, 5:58:31 PM2 votes

Is it me or have most of the SR champion changes been moved to the second week instead of the first week?

Xyphosteams11/15/2019, 5:49:39 PM1 votes

How do u think that zoe is ? Good, bad spot ?

Daddy Ants11/15/2019, 6:33:40 PM1 votes

Biggest concern I have with Senna is her W.

Why does it need to be an AOE Root?