Boards›Dev Corner

Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 12

RiotMeddler·1/12/2018, 3:48:53 PM·1 votes·42,920 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Sightstone Changes

As we mentioned earlier in the week we've got changes coming where the support items will give the Sightstone active as a reward. Goal there's to open up support item choice and flexibility, versus the current degree to which that's locked behind an early sightstone purchase. We've seen a number of concerns expressed about that approach, and while we've talked about that in some threads already visibility's been low and/or our plans have got a bit more concrete since. Some related points below as a result:

  • Overall power level of supports after this change isn't intended to change. If this ends up being a noticeable buff or nerf to the position as a whole we'll adjust things.

  • Goal is that Sightstones should still become available around the same time in lane. Amount of gold needed to complete the quest has been reduced as a result to keep that timing.

  • We'll be moving the Frost Queen's and Talisman actives onto new items, with a goal of finding costs and build paths so that they're accessible to both supports and non supports.

  • We'll be considering something like Face of the Mountain's active for a new item, though aren't as certain about that one. Certainly possible there's a need for a single target (ish) protective item like that that Knight's Vow, Mikael's, Locket don't meet. Purchase rate of FotM has also historically been quite low (versus Eye of Targon), and use of the active lower again. We're less sure that it makes sense to port the active over just like Frost Queen's/Talisman as a result.

  • Active item CDR on an item might come back at some point. It's a decent concept for an item certainly, in terms of what sort of play it enables and the item choices it creates. Would almost certainly need to be paired with a cap on active item CDR though. The lack of an active item CDR cap's an oversight, given until 7.22 there weren't any other sources, and it's leading to issues balancing items.

  • The support items won't give the Sightstone active on Twisted Treeline. For now at least they'll continue to have their old rewards on TT instead.

Vision Score on the Scoreboard

On a somewhat related topic we're planning to add vision score to the tab screen as a field that's shown all the time, not just something visible on trinket mouseover. Goal there is to better reflect how important vision is, and how much individual players are contributing to their team via vision/vision removal. Should be in 8.2 or 8.3. That will be much more awareness of vision score than there's been in the past, so possible this also reveals oddities in how it's calculated (e.g. is it overvaluing deep wards versus their actual contribution, or undervaluing killing wards with red trinkets?). Feedback on that sort of stuff much appreciated, whether off vision score as it is on live or after it goes out on the scoreboard as well.

Adaptive Damage Defaults

We'll be taking a look at each champion in terms of whether they get AP or AD by default from adaptive runes if they don't have any of either stat yet. For most champs that's not a problem, because their starting item either lets them define what they're after or there's one stat that's consistently better for them that they're getting already. For some champs though, particularly tankier ones who may never build any AP or AD, or junglers who'd really like a particular stat for their early clears, the current defaults may be problematic.

Our plan is to look at the list of defaults and, if there are any that aren't the appropriate choice at present, change them. We haven't made a list of champs to be changed yet though and I figured this was a really good question to open up widely. If anyone's got thoughts on champs with the wrong adaptive default would love to hear them in the comments here.

https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

300 Comments

HP Crookshanks1/12/2018, 3:55:17 PM13 votes

No thoughts about Ahri's W? It feels really weak and so does Ahri. item 3070 Ahri item 3070

Kankberry1/12/2018, 7:08:07 PM8 votes

Teemo defaults to AD and I think most Teemo mains would agree he should default to AP.

zippyHD1/12/2018, 3:50:37 PM7 votes

Hello Meddler

Any news about Ryze? Are you guys still planning to rework the ult? or maybe revert the ult and tweaks things around?

And is there any information if this is coming out before or after mid-season?

Much appreciated if you could answer.

Thams Me Abrin1/12/2018, 3:52:19 PM7 votes

So we'll see Twin Shadows and Shurelya's Reverie make a return? Or are you planning on making totally different items with those actives?

ßiggie Cheese1/12/2018, 5:17:58 PM7 votes

Hello Meddler,

Any chance any of the Support items could make a return from BMB? Globe of Trust seems like a suitable replacement for item 3401.

Ars Arcánum1/12/2018, 6:38:49 PM6 votes

Quinn needs early attack speed as the Domination tree doesn't grant any, as an Assassin- marksman. Maybe shave off some attack speed from her W (from 80 - 60% max rank) for a 10% increase to her base attack speed?

When I play her with Electrocute I feel like I have to start a dagger with how taxing it is.

Cool Guy Obito1/12/2018, 4:43:57 PM5 votes

Any progress towards Rengar Q yet? Really looking forward to it!

AnonKiwi1/12/2018, 6:58:42 PM5 votes

Hello Meddler,

I am so thankful that we live in a time where riot is so transparent on their patching process, but I think there is a major complaint you haven't addressed.

How will supports who prioritize roaming be effected by this change? I love the freedom that the support role has. I can focus on lane control, invade the enemy jungle, or just let my adc passively farm. It feels bad if the support items are now " here are these 3 ways to play bot lane, you can poke, collect mini game tokens, or melee hit minions", if you don't do that you don't get wards. The quest was cool and fun since it was more like a "bonus" that you got for completing it, but now you HAVE to complete the quest asap just to get your vision up.

I think most of peoples criticisms would be sated if you promised that even supports who roamed would get their sight stone around the same time as it currently is.

Possible solutions would be gold from killing wards counts towards the quest, or maybe assists/kills can count towards the quest.

Thank you for your time.

Quackas1/12/2018, 5:22:12 PM4 votes

Hey Meddlypoo

What's your thoughts on Tahm Kench overriding his self slow with Phase Rush to essentially eat and run turning his opponents into fast food for towers?

TK seems to be over-performing this pre-season, is he on the nerf radar or can I keep abusing him into the foreseeable future?

Support Position1/13/2018, 2:04:31 PM4 votes

As a support main. I hate these changes and you're only making me not want to play support even more.

I'm one of the FEW of my kind that que's support as a MAIN and only role they play. Seems you further love making ADC the only role people want to play or can do anything in the game.

Stop breaking things that are fine to begin with. And nerf what isn't.

item 3302 A problem with Adcs? Melee only. ALL done.

item 2049 item 2045 making problems? -400 gold on both items. Remove ruby crystal on sightstone. KEEP THE SAME STATS.

ALLLLL done.

item 2045 Item CDR is becoming a problem? Cap it at 40% like regular CDR.

Stop pissing off players. And make a BETTER work around and compromise.

Like holy you learned NOTHING of Season 7. "We'll listen to our players"

Bull fucking shit.

M1A3 Abrams1/13/2018, 12:35:25 AM4 votes

Late to the party here but whatev

Picking and choosing what adaptive stats champs will gain by default isn't a wise move because there's never going to be an objectively optimal choice. Players are always going to run niche playstlyes and builds, and forcing adaptive defaults just serves to reinforce the meta.

My suggestion; when a rune path that would give an AD/AP bonus is picked, give players an option to select their preferred choice of AD or AP. If you think this is a good idea, while you're at it you should consider doing the same for the other stats (HP and AS) so all players can benefit from their preferred stat, rather than a 50/50 split of them.

Thanks for listening.

Mishli1/13/2018, 8:06:50 AM4 votes

As it currently stands, I don't feel like the 'vision score' stat should be on the scoreboard. Besides just pointing out who doesn't Ward enough, which isn't hard to see. I feel like, currently, the number is quite arbitrary and doesn't mean enough right now. When someone sees kda, they know exactly what that means, "vision score" is a really vague term that doesn't really mean anything specific

Sidestep1/12/2018, 5:11:25 PM3 votes

Any thoughts on Caitlyn? She seems rather weak, given the lane shes suppose to counter aren't still in in her favor?

riste1/12/2018, 4:03:24 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler, I'd like to ask about Minion Dematerializer.

I use it actually midlane on Garen in Diamond, using a charge on the first cannon minion wave available that way I can reach level 3 before my lane opponent and go for a roam while they still have to deal with a cannon minion.

I really believe that the core strength of minion dematerializers are using four of them as opportunities for a roam (since it takes significant time early game to get rid of a cannon minion). This is a useful concept that I think a lot of players haven't quite picked up on yet.

I hope whatever changes the team at Riot ultimately decides on will still allow a way for us to skew minion waves early because I think the rune choice benefits roamers so heavily. I really enjoy the dematerializers in their current iteration and would love a similiar variant that isn't gated by a cooldown like magical footwear (10 minutes).

Thanks for reading!

waiting for WoW1/12/2018, 3:56:30 PM3 votes

If Manaflow Band is essentially being turned back into Meditation, is there any reason why it's going to be noticeably weaker than meditation was as flat missing mana/5 seconds?

Other Cunning masteries like Merciless and Intelligence returned in far more powerful and accessible versions of their former selves.

The Yetii Rider1/12/2018, 6:46:00 PM3 votes

The changes to Nunu at the moment seem to suggest that you are taking Nunu in a fighter/juggernaut direction instead of a tank direction. If that is indeed the direction you seek to head in, I think you should probably reduce the slow on Absolute Zero back to its original 50% for the entire duration to avoid giving Nunu too much CC as a fighter.

If you see Nunu as more of a tank than a fighter, these changes make no sense to be honest. I personally have always thought of Nunu as a tank, but I guess I am in the minority here.

DoWG Preotesei1/12/2018, 10:52:30 PM3 votes

The relic shield nerf to ranged seems like a nerf to Thresh Ad carries will stop taking relic from the moment the shield reward will get removed since that was the only reason they would take it (the heal relic gave for overheal barely felt compared to a constant 255-340 shield that regenerates)

rhintheminstrel1/12/2018, 4:22:36 PM3 votes

Hi meddler!

Would immobile short ranged champions like Annie get compensation buffs if the targeted spells minion aggro will push through? She already gets bullied in lane and if it pushes through, she might have a harder time.

Enragedmonkey81/12/2018, 4:34:56 PM3 votes

Afternoon meddler,

Can I get a update as to how hiemer balance is looking so far this patch? I know I've felt the hit turret diving or being ganked especially and wanted to know if the team was felt any follow up was going to be needed and what it might look like ?

Jar Jar binks l1/12/2018, 4:36:59 PM3 votes

Any update on Volibear or still testing

Yordle Xayah1/12/2018, 4:13:00 PM3 votes

We'll be moving the Frost Queen's and Talisman actives onto new items}

Shurelya's and Twin Shadows comeback! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

hullunmylly1/13/2018, 1:15:40 AM3 votes

I think a vision score is a bad idea. Rather than encouraging good vision it will just make people place wards mindlessly just so they don't get flamed for low vision score. Similar to how end-of-game grading works out, the grade or in this case numbers will never be accurate enough to give a good representation. Also it will result in more clutter which is bad especially for new players.

Solari Fortune1/12/2018, 4:17:32 PM2 votes

What are your thoughts on Leona nowadays? Think you got her into a more decent spot or still got your eye on her?

Kyunsei1/12/2018, 4:38:26 PM2 votes

Any nerf to zombie ward planned ?

Garrotte1/12/2018, 3:51:51 PM2 votes

Will vision score be pingable?