Boards›Dev Corner

Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 6

RiotMeddler·6/6/2018, 3:55:55 PM·1 votes·52,578 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Post-Midseason stability

Now that all the midseason changes, bar the couple of new fighter items, are out, we're going to focusing mainly on polish and stability until preseason. We've made quite a lot of changes recently and want to pair that with a period of low systemic change. That will mean patches being more just balance adjustments, and less major overhauls of anything. That's something we aim for each year after midseason, as we hit the second half of the ranked season and the run up to Worlds. Looking at the amount of change we've made this year though, and the style in which it's come out, it feels extra important to do.

In particular, spreading midseason changes out over a few patches was more disruptive than we'd anticipated. We were hoping to minimize the shake up of any individual patch and keep things steadier since we'd have time to react to each set of changes separately. In retrospect though the outcome was more a period of constant readjustment than greater stability. We'll be aiming to cluster changes back in a single patch more in the future as a result.

Systemic change we will still be looking at

We will still be doing some work to pull back early snowball, as mentioned last week. Even though we're looking for a period of stability we think that's important enough that it needs to be done regardless. The systemic changes already in 8.12 (2 new fighter items plus nerfs to Heal/Shield items and some gifted shield durations) are still planned as well. Beyond that things should be fairly light until November. It's also likely preseason's more focused this year on improving various existing parts of the game than adding new elements, though we've yet to plan preseason out in full detail.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

259 Comments

Vanjie6/6/2018, 4:51:11 PM14 votes

What is going on with Karma, Meddler? DId you forget about her? You promised us work on her last year and it is 5 years and 6 months now with no work on her. The nerfs to her shields are warranted and so are the shield nerfs to enchanters. Unfortunately I just love how you are not giving any of their kits compensation or actually working on them if you know the only thing holding them together was their shields.

What are you doing about Karma's:

Identity crisis.
Incomplete animations and art assets?
All over the place kit that confuses players as to who and what Karma really is.
Bland and boring kit that has elements from mechanics and abilities already in the game.
The Karma mains who have been complaining for more than 3 years now for you to work on her.

Maybe if you guys stopped changing the game so much and prioritizing work on champions like Ahri and Lux every year, you can get to champions like Lissandra, Fizz, Morde, Skarner, Malz and Karma. Stop with the favoritism Meddler. It is getting old.

Godmaker6/6/2018, 6:13:22 PM11 votes

So is the bringing mages into bot lane thing canned? or is that coming in preseason. You talked alot about it then spent so much time fixing ADC I haven't heard anything else about it, and it was something I was excited about.

Daddy Ants6/6/2018, 6:27:28 PM9 votes

Hi Meddler.

What's the team's thoughts on how Marksmen who build crit are performing in 8.11?

Specifically Vayne Tristana Caitlyn Jinx Twitch Xayah

These champions seem to be really low on stat websites.

Riot wanted to slow down Crit ADC power spikes? Ok you achieved that.

At the same time you guys seem adamant on speeding up games which leaves half of the ADC roster feeling redundant as they never get to scale and be able to be useful to their team.

Pichula6/6/2018, 4:22:32 PM8 votes

Im really worried about Lulu - Karma solo lane cappabilities with that shield duration change, ¿will it be compensated somewhere else in his stats-kits?

Nausicäa 6/6/2018, 8:30:41 PM7 votes

When the fuck are you gonna get a clue and reduce damage? Maybe the game wouldnt snowball as much when all it takes is a single item for many champions to 100-0 you instantly.

nTzT6/6/2018, 6:45:11 PM5 votes

How about a nice new DOT keystone to replace Deathfire Touch?

SulphoR6/6/2018, 6:20:36 PM4 votes

@Meddler

Can you please look into Garen prior to shipping 8.12? HIs current main build that most high elo mains agree on right now is triforce and steraks with Q max as it allows him to do solid trades with other people mid game after laning has ended. This is the first time in years that he has felt close to viable and not like a troll pick. If the changes go through as they are now he will be significantly weaker. Please look into him before you ship the steraks change.

Monstrous Yi6/6/2018, 4:13:27 PM4 votes

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ChargeItDownMid6/6/2018, 4:37:21 PM4 votes

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Shadow Hazard6/6/2018, 4:43:09 PM4 votes

There have been more than one call out to the point that bloodrazor is in a very poor state as an item. The jungle champs that would build it that are successful are seeing that success with the other jungle item options.

On a similar note farming jungle champs haven't gotten any proper attention for years now, in fact riot has been making changes that make things worse for these types of jungle champs.

Similar to the yi+taric cheese what are the thoughts of the recently popular 5 man zzrot+ banner cheese ?

mabarry36/6/2018, 6:12:20 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler, I have a few questions on your opinion of Nidalee and where she may be going in the (near) future with the talk of "lane nidalee potentially coming back". I own the Nidalee Mains discord and subreddit and it's probably the most consistently talked about thing on the sub and a frequent conversation topic on the discord too. I was just wondering a couple things:

-- Is there any sort of timeline for when we might expect to see discussion/PBE stuff working towards a world where lane and jungle nidalee exist at the same time? Or just soonTM?

-- The last time Nidalee was changed in an effort to make both lane and jungle work in tandem (5.2), she was pick/ban and got 2 straight years of nerfs as a result; how hard do you think it would be to create a lane-viable nidalee without having a jungle-busted nidalee?

-- What are the primary things that would need to be addressed to bring lane nid back? Mana cost/sustain while in lane (as jungle has runic, talisman, blue, etc), hunted/unhunted damage to champions, etc?

I would love to hear any update about my favorite champ to at least have an idea about the goals Riot has going forward with Nidalee changes.

pepetecabalga6/6/2018, 4:02:53 PM3 votes

What do you think about the current state of the tank junglers? Passive junglers are getting pretty weak with all the changes.

Vekkna6/6/2018, 5:16:22 PM3 votes

Zyra

There isn't any question that the meta has shifted in her favor as support. How do you approach a situation like this where there is a clear structural problem with a champ, but a meta shift eats up your entire margin for adding power?

(Suggestion: Big early nerf to passive cooldown, increased CDR per level. Net nerf early, gets back to par faster on solo exp.)

Hópe6/6/2018, 4:27:46 PM3 votes

Whats happening with Zyras plants. Just recently I landed a 5 man ult put two Ws down and didnt even notice my plants were never there..

Basically im saying they died so fast it was as if I didnt even put them down.

Strong Tomato6/6/2018, 6:42:06 PM3 votes

Are there any plans to make Nidalee a laner again? If not maybe a rework? Her gameplay is in a really bad spot.

MakeItEasy4Lolis6/6/2018, 4:01:40 PM3 votes

Hi Meddler I want to know your thoughts about Udyr. Actually he is sitting as the oneof the best jungler in the patch. The main reason is because of Steraks and his sinergy with Trinity. Even though we know that with the removal of this effect in the next patch maybe his WR will go down a bit, but with the new items i thing that he wont go down really too much.

What do you think about him? Im pretty sure you will be looking for some nerfs to him in the near future, but i wanted to point out something. Just nerf Tiger. At the moment, that is the only way he is viable. What i want to point out is that, it would be good to buff the Phoenix Stance. He is really underperforming. Like, he cant be played. I know that you increased his ratios, but Phoenix is not meant to build AP, as e is a bruiser.

I wanted to make sure that you know it before nerfing him too much. It would be good if you nerf tiger as it is the one that is doing pretty well, while you buff phoenix(maybe some base damage increase at all ranks). Maybe some QoL changes would be very good seriously, like that bug that happens when you are about to AA someone and changing the Stance will reset the AutoAttack, it would be good if it works like Aatrox W. Also, Nimbus cloack, the new rune, doesnt work with phoenix, is it intended. It is a 60 secs CD, meaning that Udyr cant abuse it.

News about when will ge get a VGU? He is the only champ (after Ryze Visual and Gameplay Update) that still has squared feet.

T1GK6/7/2018, 3:43:18 AM2 votes

IMO ADC has always mostly been about the carry part. And removing the old IE hurt a lot of ADC's potentials to carry, turning them from glass canons to glass stones. If fallen behind adcs feel worse than ever. As and ADC main I live for the all or nothing supersnowball games, but when an entire position can't even do any damage to the enemy morgana because you're so behind, theres an issue.

Spideraxe6/6/2018, 3:58:40 PM2 votes

Hey Meddler can I ask if you guys will be evaluating the big patch small patch approach since this season so far has been much more disruptive then past ones and people are exactly big fans of constant changes

pepetecabalga6/6/2018, 4:06:49 PM2 votes

Would you give compensation buffs to the sterak users that aren't that strong right now and are very reliant on it?

FlufyBunnyRengar6/6/2018, 4:13:18 PM2 votes

Do you think that the shield buffs is what Rumble really needs?

Lument6/6/2018, 7:54:59 PM2 votes

Hi Meddler,

Any further buffs for Kassadin? The shield buff helped him just barely and has been receiving indirect nerfs. (Minion Change, resolve nerf and ultimate hat swapped to nimbus).

Archlord Aatrox6/6/2018, 3:58:31 PM2 votes

Any news on splash art updates? Any champions in particular have high priority at the moment?

Recons6/6/2018, 9:39:15 PM2 votes

Good afternoon Meddler, I hope this day finds you well.

I realize that you guys have been moving to quicker more interactive games, cutting the game time averages by a significant amount, adding snowball mechanics to make it harder to come back from a game, and increasing mana, and cooldown reduction accessibility.

However lately, it seems like you guys have been moving back to a slower gameplay and removing snowball mechanics, I was wondering if you could expand on the current vision of the game?

What are you guys trying to achieve on the big scope of things?

Additionally, with the incremental buffs to duelists, divers, and assassins (The upcoming Sterak's Gage, granting bonus AD buffs all AD assassins and divers unless they bought Trinity Force, Spear of Shojin, and Atma's Reckoning), I am afraid this will increase the amount of games that are dictated by a "raid-boss" type player dominating the entire map. And with the current state of critical damage (not chance, but the amount of damage Marksmen deal) Marksmen will not have enough damage to kill a duelist before getting dove and killed themselves.

So by making games shorter, and delaying Crit based power spikes, Marksmen will not be able to complete their core items, fulfill their power fantasy, and perform their intended role of dealing the most damage per second. This leads me to the following question, what is the current role of crit-based marksmen? How do they fit into a team composition? And how will they be able to complete their items before the game ends at 22 mins.

To wrap it up, I suspect these might be all interconnected, is your vision of the game a more "fighter style" game? Since crit marksmen don't have any flashy abilities or amazing outplay potential besides kiting and right clicking, you are nerfing them to make space for more interactive marksmen, like Lucian. While at the same time nerfing tanks with huge amounts of true damage, since tanks don't have flashy kits either, and buffing duelists to encourage fights in the top lane.

I really appreciate you taking your time to write this! And good luck on the rift.

La Bello6/6/2018, 9:10:00 PM1 votes

"we need to worry about balance until preseason"

what? lol it shouldnt take like 9 different patches to get balance sorted.

how about sending some more champ reworks our way? Champions like DrMundo Singed Shyvana Yasuo Malzahar have DESIGN problems not NUMBER problems. Tweaking an ability by 5 damage here or cooldown by 2 seconds there wont fix shit. You guys NEED to nut up and start fixing these champions that have been in your game for over 8~9 years now.

Supports dont need across the board shield duration nerfs. They need a rework to shields period. Mundo/Singed shouldn't be buffed to the point of viability as when they are strong they arent fun to play AGAINST.

There is no way you can actually achieve true balance until you decide to start reworking the other 1/3rd of your roster. Winrates are not FUNRATEs. even if Teemo has a 50% perfect winrate that doesnt make him any less frustrating to play vs.

like how can you possibly "balance" Kindred with small scale changes? or MasterYi ?

getting every champ to 50% winrate is easy but it should not be what you are aiming for. You should be aiming to actually go in and get the deep rooted problems.

Forinstance

You introduced AP itemization problems but still nothing for AP bruisers. Everyone who wants to go nashors is still arguably better off just getting Lich Bane! Not to mention AP itemization is still balanced around this horrid double pen due to their being few options or ways around getting Void + Sorcs everygame. Also I still dont agree with Rabbadons design as a whole and I feel like the game would be better off without it and easier to balance (imagine if you will a game where you dont have to worry about random spikes of 300 extra AP or more mulplicatively scaling up certain kits).
Support items and support champions are all arguably overtuned. To get people interested in the role you powercreeped the items and champions hella hard come preseason. finding a better solution to support should take a good chunk of your time both items and champions can feel really overbearing with only a fraction of the farm other lanes need to be effective.
Last but not least what about runes reforged. tons of runes in reforged are simply not working out or are skewing champion balance. at least half of the runes in reforged need to be removed or reworked imo just from sheer poor design (Aery,Grasp,scorch,electro). THAT should be taking a good chunk of your time.