Skip to content

Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 22

RiotMeddler··1 votes·147,477 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Ongoing Nexus Blitz Development

As some of you will have seen we've made some changes to Nexus Blitz after its initial launch via a couple of micro patches. Full details can be found here:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/A6uAU8Yl-nexus-blitz-week-1-feedback-and-patch-notes

TLDR is:

  • A new event called Scuttle racing (you race Scuttles)
  • A new event reward (brief stealth after walking through a brush)
  • A range of balance changes, bringing mages down especially

Normally with micro patches we only make smaller changes, rather than adding new things to the game. In this case we're able to do so for a couple of reasons. The first is that both the new event and new reward were nearly finished when we shipped the 8.16 patch, though with some issues to iron out (bugs and balance, rather than art changes that would require a new download). The second is that, given Nexus Blitz is an alpha test, we feel it's appropriate to accept a somewhat higher risk of bugs in order to keep prototyping and testing quickly. Our goal's still to figure out within four weeks whether Nexus Blitz should at some point return as a permanent mode. We want to make the most of the available time as a result, rather than waiting for the next regular patch like we normally would. Likely we'll have some meaningful changes in a micro patch a bit after 8.17 goes out too, take full advantage of that patch cycle as well.


Goals for patches 8.17, 8.18 and 8.19

8.17 - A regular patch, focused on smaller scope champion balance. Should be a decent number of changes in it, many of which will have hit the PBE yesterday or today. Right now balance changes will tend to show up later in a patch cycle since the earlier half's being spent on preseason work.

8.18 - While it's not the Worlds patch (that's 8.19) it is the one where we'll do most of the remaining World's focused work. Not expecting any major changes, do want to leave ourselves one followup patch though just in case anything hits much harder than expected or a problem needs further work. Will also have some non pro focused work too of course.

8.19 - The patch Worlds will be played on. This one's likely to be fairly small, with just followup on 8.18 plus changes for regular play that aren't a pro risk. LIkely some changes get worked on for regular play that end up getting shifted to 8.20 instead.

Some 8.17 Context

One thing we're looking at with a lot of our 8.17 changes is adding power to champs who already have decent damage but are still under performing. We've looking instead to add power in other ways, with possibilities being things like sustained damage (Attack Speed on Wukong), defense (Meditate CD and DR on Yi) or extended mobility (longer durations on Kayn E, shorter CD on Rengar R). That will potentially be paired with adjustments aimed at shifting some power on Stormrazor and Duskblade to slightly less bursty patterns (less AD and more AS on SR, less proc damage and more AD on DB).

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

357 Comments

RNG Unable14 votes

Hey Meddler, any comment on the RyzeRyze nerf that hit the PBE yesterday? while Ryze remains a popular pick on the LCS, his Win Rate in the normal gameplay has been around 42%, and players rarely pick him because he is already "underpower" like Azir andKalista .

RiotMeddler11 votes

We've sunk enormous amounts of time into Ryze, Azir and Kalista over the years because of how much better they perform in pro than regular play. In order to put that time into other champs and projects that need work too we decided this year that for a while we'd just balance those champs so they weren't pick/ban, too close to it, or on a path to it, in pro. Our suspicion is that, in his current state, Ryze will be too dominant at Worlds so he's on our radar for possible nerfs. We'll probably hold off on those until 8.18 or 8.19 and then do them then, assuming they still look needed, given 8.19 is the World's patch.

Metałlica27 votes

I am sorry but at this point we are just meant to suffer because of pro play? Pro play benefit from ult and mostly from ult balance team has nerfed everything but the ult which has done nothing to stop ryze from being picked? How about a big hit to ryze ult? I mean the champion is barely playable with a 45% win rate and his being nerfed even further because the typical excuse of pro play.

I am happy league has grown enough to have pro play but at this point I wish pro play would just die off so we have actual patches revolving around actual balance changes and not the fact that riot doesn't like seeing ryze being picked therefore nerfing while releasing a fancy cinematic.

Sir Rouge14 votes

About the Rengar (R) longer duration (12/16/20 seconds to 12/20/28 seconds on PBE):

Any reason why you're going against your own philosophy (from patch 7.3)?

''Thrill of the Hunt’s duration is long enough that instead of needing to predict a fight (or commit to starting one at all), Rengar can just chill in the shadows, scaring the enemy team into inaction for long stretches until one of them wanders an inch too far. We’re tightening the leash on Knifecat’s ability to dine-and-dash large groups while keeping his efficacy at solo missions largely intact.'' Patch notes 7.3, when nerfing it from 14/22/30 to 12/16/20

You're just going to be putting back an old problem.

RiotMeddler6 votes

We had some people arguing that change might have been incorrect in retrospect and that it was worth testing a longer duration again. As per the main post above what we'll be going with instead is the CD buff to Rengar R. I do think it's important though that we sometimes reassess past decisions to beat up whether they were correct in the first place, rather than feeling locked in to whatever was previously done. Looking at duration again here, even though we won't ship a change to it at this time, feels like the smart thing to do, not a case of going against our own values.

Stylish Monkey8 votes

Hey meddler,

Any thoughts about my girl Diana? She has been in a pretty rough spot for a while and with the nerfs to electrocute, she will be hurting even more. Even just taking a look at fixing the bugs that currently plague her would be a great start! (her q hitbox is inconsistent and her e sometimes pushes people away instead of towards you).

Thank you!

Flutterrs7 votes

Hi Meddler! Hope you've had a good morning so far.

A lot of changes have been teased for Zoe for 8.17 - are all of those intended to make it to Live? Not complaining, just checking because the list is somewhat extensive and opinions in the Zoe mains community seems to be mixed on whether they're all going through or not.

For my part, I'm fairly happy with the changes, but then again I play Zoe primarily as a support so I may not be the best indicator, haha. The increased E damage/ratio will make maxing it a legitimate strategy, allowing me to set up cool picks for my laners through walls when roaming. I'm definitely looking forward to that, and I obviously don't mind the reduced damage on W (or the removal of per-level scaling on Q). Losing the vision on the ult is a little unfortunate, as it was a cool mechanic, but with my Sightstone I'll basically have the same effect anyways.

Oh, and the trap removal is fine by me, though I wish we had a bit more time with the cool VFX of the Pool Party trap - those seagulls were a really nice touch by the skins team.

Cheers!

RiotMeddler7 votes

Good morning!

Quoting from another post I just answered:

"Zoe - that is an experimental list that's been tested, it's not complete nor something we're planning to ship as is though. Shouldn't have been posted this early, needed more validation and then iteration. Changes won't be part of 8.17."

Flutterrs3 votes

Thanks! Appreciate the response :)

Pokemonred2007 votes

Is there any chance we'll get more items on Summoner's Rift that build out of item 1057? The once great magic resistance item has lost a lot of use now that it no longer builds into item 3102 or item 3026, and the four items it currently builds into are generally niche purchases after the last set of changes to item 3001.

Patrixion1646 votes

Hi Meddler! in which patch can be released a mini rework of Karma? Sorry for my english :c

RiotMeddler6 votes

Not sure sorry. We're still experimenting with different directions. After that there'll likely be some work on some of her spell effects and audio needed to reflect those gameplay changes too. Will be a while as a result.

WiccanBKaplan6 votes

Will we possibly see Lissandra passive at least on PBE before or during worlds?

atlıkarınca3 votes

At least answer that. Please! @Meddler

Kadexe6 votes

If you're investigating ways to buff Master Yi without touching his damage, here are some ideas:

  • Increase his attack range to 150 or 175. This is more of a modernization to match the length of his sword, but practically speaking, it does very little but help him kite monster camps and sometimes get 1 more basic attack on a target he's chasing. It would also make his laning better, not that it matters.

  • Increase the damage reduction of Meditate during the first 0.25 seconds of channeling it. Or give it something like tenacity.

  • Pause Highlander during stasis effects like Stopwatch and Guardian Angel. It sucks to have your GA popped and loose almost your entire ult.

  • Lower Alpha Strike's cooldown by 1 second for each second Meditate is channeled. Alpha Strike's cooldown is reduced by basic attacks, and that is a strong incentive against using Meditate.

  • Increase his damage to minions so that he can push lanes faster, now that funneling strats are dead.

  • After the change you made to Meditate that made the spell pause Highlander while channeling, I don't think Highlander needs to be reverted all the way to 10 seconds. I would be happy to see it changed to 8 seconds with 6 seconds added per kill/assist. Getting 7 more seconds on Highlander with every kill is excessive.

That said, I think these Meditate buffs you're testing are good changes.

Tantarboy5 votes

Seeing that you mentioned Dark Souls in the previous post, i wanted to ask you. Which game of the series was your favourite and who is your favourite boss? (And which is your favourite ost from them if you have one)

RiotMeddler10 votes

Definitely Dark Souls 1 for me. It was the first in the Souls/Bloodborne series I played and from what I've seen a lot of people tend to have the best experience with the first one they encounter. Still haven't played Bloodborne properly though, need to get to that at some point.

In terms of boss fights a few stick with me. Sif for the lore/backstory, Gaping Dragon visually even if the fight was a bit of a let down, and the Gargoyles as the first real fight that stumped me for a bit but felt really satisfying once beaten.

WintersWard4 votes

Thoughts on Locket atm?

RiotMeddler5 votes

Seems reasonable right now? It's a decent and pretty common pick on tank supports, but not to the extent that they're crowding everything else out entirely or that it's 100% mandatory on them.

Was there something more specific about it you were wondering?

Sharpest glasses3 votes

Thoughts on item 3814 ?

Im a Rengar Talon mains, and i feel like they're almost never a reason to build it.

Hightham4 votes

Hello Meddler.

You spoke about Garen and Yorick nerfs happening soon, in a way to ensure they're only nerfed in low elo.

Any clarification towards this? What are the planned changes?

RiotMeddler7 votes

Yorick we'll be nerfing Ghoul damage, primarily between levels 2 and 7. That was chosen as a target given AI controlled minions tend to perform noticeably stronger at low/average MMR than high, given their effectiveness doesn't scale as much as other parts of a champion's kit, while counterplay against them does. Damage is then the same by 18.

Garen I believe we're cutting Q rank up damage (30-150 instead of 30-170). I'll double check, but I don't think there's a low MMR target in there, instead just a slight power reduction via less upfront damage.

Gondall5 votes

As a Yorick main, just want to mention that I’m extremely sad to see his ghouls nerfed once again, even though I understand the rationale you’re laying out. They are the central part of his kit and identity, but with the previous ghoul damage nerfs and the warping of his playstyle due to his Q’s proportion of his power budget (and its ability to affect turrets), he feels like Nasus-Lite sometimes instead of a ghoul-raiser.

Has any thought been given to adjusting his ghouls’ AD scaling, giving them bonus MR or Armor scaling, or removing the one-AA-auto-kill mechanic in order to better reward Yorick players that are able to build a lead? While this would/could give power to lower ELO players depending on final numbers, it would mainly be targeted toward higher ELO players as a “compensation” to make the current ghoul changes power-neutral.

Another suggestion would be allowing his E cd to be reduced by ghoul AAs on champions to reward landing it with ghouls out, or allowing his E to reapply the Maiden’s passive. In fact, just fixing the bug with his E where ghouls don’t always leap would be a huge QoL improvement as well as a buff

Critmaster Garen13 votes

{quoted}

Garen I believe we're cutting Q rank up damage (30-150 instead of 30-170). I'll double check, but I don't think there's a low MMR target in there, instead just a slight power reduction via less upfront damage.

why?

hes already losing a lot of steam with the meta changing from high burst/low utility/assassin focused teamcomps more to tanks and with you buffing marksmen and sustained damage.

he dropped to 50% winrate over the course of the past week. his pick rate is still high since the vs. event, but has been declining ever since.

there are seriously stronger champions to worry about. what about lee sins 30% pick rate in solo que? what about jhin and ahri then? what about sion hitting 54% winrate?

if all those champions are performing better than him on this patch and arent even talked about by you guys, then the only reason for you to nerf garen at this point is to force him out of the spotlight.

if you just give it time, then garen will normalize himself in the shifting meta. everything already points towards that change.

if you nerf him now, hes going to end up in a terrible spot again a couple of weeks down the line.

plus, this nerf isnt even targeted at low mmr like you initially talked about. its not a power shift either. its just a straight nerf for all divisions, which is overkill at this point.

and yorick lost steam aswell. why is he even touched?

SMOKE THIS1 votes

[deleted]

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mystic Pizza,realm=OCE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=lcyByxNW,comment-id=0014000000030004,timestamp=2018-08-24T02:56:41.375+0000)

Why? Because a fucking tank champion shouldn't be able to deal 300 damage with his Q with just Doran's Shield. Ridiculous.

garen isnt a tank. and yes there are really beefy champions that should deal a shitload of damage.

theyre called juggernauts, and theyre balanced around the concept.

SMOKE THIS1 votes

[deleted]

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mystic Pizza,realm=OCE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=lcyByxNW,comment-id=001400000003000400000000,timestamp=2018-08-25T08:47:57.066+0000)

How healthy. Deal as much damage as an assassin, but can't actually be killed by an assassin. Fantastic concept. And did you even read my comment? You shouldn't be able to do instant 200 dmg with just a dorans shield and tank runes. That's what the nerf is for. He's too strong with no items. Good thing he's simple to lane against.

yes you should. juggernauts are beefy melee carries. their downside is lack of mobility and utility. theyre difficult to get in melee range of their target with.

Gewaltherrscher2 votes

Once the meta shifts to tanks again Garens winrate will drop sub 50% in all elos its already at 46.33% in diamond + ( dropped from 54%). Additional to the meta shift that is already in play the Q nerf will effect Diamond once again.

beany4 votes

Hey meddler, do you know whether the ezreal update will be allowed at worlds? I assume it will release around that period.

While you're changing duskblade and stormrazor, is there still thought on making the passive procs unique or is the lowering of the damage proc on duskblade enough?

Galiö3 votes

The worlds patch is 2 patches away. We may get the new champion that patch or the patch after. Ezreal looks to be after the new champion.

RiotMeddler23 votes

Ezreal's update will be before the next new champion.

Presy1 votes

So what 4 reworks then A champion ?. Isint the norm 5 champs 1 per role per season . Or are we slowing down just curious

Velzard of Koz5 votes

They slowed down, this has been said some time ago, this year is already affected by the slow down. I believe the ratio is 6:4 6 reworks 4 new champs.

JonnyBoyy9 votes

nope, reav3 stated its nunu>ez>colorful champ>chained champ> K&M. So the chances of Ez in 8.18 are high considering that the worlds patch is in 8.19

Galiö3 votes

Oh. My apologies. I did not see that statement.

RiotReav38 votes

Ezreal will be after Worlds, we want to make sure current Ezreal is playable at worlds as any champion released in patch 8.18 or 8.19 would be disabled for Worlds.

xXDaBoozeXx1 votes

{quoted}

Ezreal will be after Worlds, we want to make sure current Ezreal is playable at worlds as any champion released in patch 8.18 or 8.19 would be disabled for Worlds.

I know you are not probably allowed to say too much on this, but does this mean that we would possibly have the order changed for the new champ to come out before the ezreal rework?

If not does this mean it will be ~2 months+ before we see the champ?

RiotReav35 votes

The New Champ is still after Ezreal

Glory ln Death1 votes

"Ezreal will be after Worlds", meaning after the Worlds patches (8.18 and 8.19) or after Worlds, itself (meaning November)?

RiotReav34 votes

After Worlds patch

RiotMeddler9 votes

Ezreal's update will be after the World's patch, so current Ezreal will be available for World's play.

We're starting with some changes to see if we can get Stormrazor and Duskblade into better spots without having to make them unique. If that doesn't show promise a unique passive's something we'll then look at. Where possible we want to try and keep the item system more open, rather than blocking combinations or interactions entirely.

Spideraxe4 votes

Also can you share yourself thoughts on AP Ezreal and its viability post VGU

KalaKent4 votes

They don't plan on removing AP Ezreal viability

Luxanna Magica3 votes

They said something similar with Tristana. Look where that is now.

Riotplaytestpenguin3 votes

I have played AP Ezreal with the VGU and think it is similarly powerful to AP Ezreal on live. Don't want to go into too much detail before Ezreal stuff is actually revealed, but I personally believe AP Ezreal players will find AP Ezreal quite satisfying still. :)

AP Ezreal God2 votes

{quoted}

I have played AP Ezreal with the VGU and think it is similarly powerful to AP Ezreal on live. Don't want to go into too much detail before Ezreal stuff is actually revealed, but I personally believe AP Ezreal players will find AP Ezreal quite satisfying still. :)

I have a couple questions if you're allowed to share:

Anything you can share on your build?

Does he still play as a hybrid between mobile AP Assassin and long range artillery mage?

Are his weaknesses still present? (Low waveclear speed and non-existent utility, as well as issues dealing with tanks)

Is he still a hyperscaling beast?

Thanks for killing my fears about the rework! :)

Riotplaytestpenguin4 votes

I think answering any of these is too close to too-much-information unfortunately -- you'll just have to wait until he's launched!

Αrti4 votes

Any word on the current state of rek'sai or vi?

Ascended Xayah4 votes

Can we get some nami nerfs? she's freelo as sht.

More from Dev Corner

More by Meddler