Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 20

RiotMeddler·7/20/2018, 4:07:37 PM·1 votes·80,557 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Crit Item Adjustments

As you've probably seen we're trying some crit item balance changes on the PBE at the moment, aiming to have something in 8.15. We'll talk about that work in some more detail later sometime in the next few days. At a high level though our goals there are:

  • Shift some crit marksman power from late game to earlier in the game so that they get to switch on earlier (cheaper items and potentially easier build paths, slightly lower stats as a result)
  • Drop Zeal items to 25% crit to get rid of bad feels around overcapping crit with IE
  • Improve how IE crits feel (floating combat text work at least, maybe some mechanics changes too)

Overall we're particularly focused on satisfaction with this round of changes, targeting things that make playing crit ADCs feel poor, not just looking at power. Likely there'll be some further small adjustments early next week too.

Locked Camera and Minimap

We're looking into what changed with locked/semi locked camera and the minimap in 8.14. No changes to behavior were intended so we'll figure out what's causing some buggy behavior reported and get it addressed.

New Cursor

As of patch 8.14 this week the updated cursor's out, hope it's treating you well so far. For anyone that missed it if you'd much rather just use the old one instead it's easy to swap back to it. Just go to the Interface section of the Options menu.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

247 Comments

lol you wild wyd7/20/2018, 4:14:36 PM24 votes

Evening @Riot Meddler, two things from my end:

  1. Thoughts on these "15-20 minute" state of League of Legends we are having? In my opinion it diverts from League of Legend's identity and one core value of the game, strategy. Feels like a quick fix mobile game at this point.

  2. Have subsequent patches been reducing the "last-hit assistance"? Something like this should be documented in patch notes. Speaking of patch notes, I think context should still be given in the "small buff/nerf" sections.

Cheers.

TomiMan77/20/2018, 4:47:18 PM15 votes

Any news on a possible work on Sorcery tree? Mostly a 4th keystone to fill in the gap between aery and comet. (DFT Maybe? )

Daoist7/20/2018, 6:06:51 PM12 votes

Hey Meddler, Any plans for Ryze Kalista Azir ? They seem to be doing poorly in both pro and normal gameplay.

NABoardsAccount7/20/2018, 6:49:26 PM11 votes

Why do you keep insisting with Stormrazor?

That is not what Crit ADCs need or want

PandaNator437/20/2018, 4:11:03 PM10 votes

I'm confused by the crit item changes on the PBE. The changes seem to revert a lot of the mid season changes.

How confident are you that these changes won't revert the meta back to marksmen only, or even crit marksmen only, in Bot lane? Really curious to hear your reasoning on this.

Semi-related - When experimenting on the PBE, to compensate for the small sample size of games, do you make larger changes than you think is actually needed so that the effects are amplified and easier to validate? I feel like I've noticed this a few times, I'm curious to know your design process.

Queš7/20/2018, 4:11:06 PM7 votes

Hey Meddler.What about Yasuo Tryndamere ?They got buffs to compensate crit changes,but after seeing PBE changes I am worried that they will be a little too strong(They both like these changes)

Definitely Mezo7/20/2018, 4:21:40 PM6 votes

Hello meddler, I'm really upset about Zyra being only support champion meanwhile Lulu can play both roles. Can you guys fix that? Also i'm still want to know your opinion about Zyra plants being oneshot by everyone. She already has Passive and ability for these plants. not one ability like Malz. So i suggest reworking her passive and make her W max seeds is 4 instead of 2. Or just revert the plants changes in 7.24 :3

Spideraxe7/20/2018, 4:20:34 PM5 votes

Hey Meddler can I ask for those tanks Thoughts are or are they next post

VeXuM7/20/2018, 4:10:53 PM5 votes

Hey Meddler! Any further thoughts on snowballing in league since your last adjustment to slow it down. Sometimes it feels like theres so much damage in the game to the point where even assassins that are behind (ex: Wukong, Talon, Katarina, rengar) can still one shot a squishy target without much effort. Do you think this is okay, or have any thoughts on situations like these? Thanks again for your post!

Serednicki7/20/2018, 5:04:44 PM5 votes

"projects mentioned may get put delayed" projects mentioned may get put delayed*

meteorbreaker7/20/2018, 4:37:49 PM4 votes

Good night Meddler! What can you say about Zyra? There were some actions about her plants and again there was no news. When will her position be revised in the game as a whole? I'm all interested in the champion, but not as a support role. I would like to see Zyra again become a full-fledged mage on a solo lanee, in particular on proscene (LCS, high elo players etc.) and for new players, who are just starting to play the game.

Moonfall Diana7/22/2018, 4:23:48 AM4 votes

Guys kindly upvote this please so Meddler can see it. I'm passionate about Diana and would really appreciate the support so meddler may see this comment.

@Meddler, would you be kind enough to comment on the state of Diana, if you have any thoughts on her, if there are any plans to buff her/minor rework her?

I am a P3 player with 850k+ mastery on her and I want to play her more but its so tough in the meta, shes been getting destroyed for years now with no love.

I'm happy to chat if you want to talk to a Diana main, though I'm sure there are plenty more qualified than me.

Azé Majora7/20/2018, 6:44:21 PM4 votes

Out of pure curiosity, do you have anything up in the air for Sona ?

ExpStealer7/20/2018, 5:02:10 PM4 votes

What are your thoughts on the supposed damage creep that so many people complained about?

silvermoons7/20/2018, 5:53:11 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler! Arcsecond posted a great video "What happened to Diana?" (here it is if you haven't seen it, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlVnh6K08b0) where he discusses the changes that occured over time and how they have added up to make Diana less and less interesting and viable. Seeing such a visually and thematically interesting champ stripped down to a suiciding AP hand-grenade is frustrating, especially seeing the kinds of dashes and mechanics Irelia and Akali have received. Is there any news on what is happening with Diana? 7.14 patch notes mentioned that she would need a rework, and seriously a new R and more Moonlight interaction in her kit would do WONDERS to make her a more skill expressive and less stat-checky champion. Please let us know how our Moon lady is doing :(

JTScorpion7/20/2018, 11:36:00 PM4 votes

So I like to see that adc's are finally getting some attention, It's great to see. First as a disclaimer, I don't really mind other champions being viable in the bot lane, but it is extremely frustrating to see that what is currently considered to be an adc's biggest strength, being their late game, is getting severely hurt through the changes that are posted on PBE.

Zeal items costing less gold definitely helps, I feel this is one of the bigger issues when it comes to adcs, is that the build path to get to 2/3 even 4 items is so much more expensive then it use to be. Sadly these feel better changes, hurt 3 adcs that are getting picked occasionally, and i dont think the damage tradeoff is worth the lower gold cost.

Let's look at Caitlyn, losing 10% crit chance, when a zeal item is combined with IE, feels really bad, because not only does her overall crit chance get lowered, but so does the additional damage she gains from her passive. Which was just buffed into a pretty decent place.

Xayah, whose E scales with crit chance, actually get bonus values, regardless of how high her crit chance is. Losing 20% crit chance, when getting all 3 items. (Double Zeal, IE) now lowers her e damage by about 30 or so per feather.

Ashe, While the crit chance doesn't go over the 100% toward her passive, still loses early damage, for a slightly less costing build.

Now while the changes to zeal help many adc's, the overlapping value helps 3 champions specifically stay viable.

What is being done to make sure these adc's who already feel kinda meh, stay somewhat viable in the future?

Next, 200 gold less on Bloodthirster doesn't make it more appealing, when you lose 15 ad from it. Like the item is just far too inefficient.

Also, can we please look at last whisper, and the fact that it isn't gold efficient early, and the enemy basically needs 200+ armor for the item to really feel like a good buy.

Thank you,

Bowlerjoe

ThrowsTheBird7/22/2018, 7:40:44 PM3 votes

Greetings,

I would like to briefly address the state of top lane in a few paragraphs and start a discussion.

According to statistics Garen enjoys a 53.8% and Mundo a 50.6% win rate while they constitute 20 % (!!!!) of all the champions played top lane. The "win rate is not everything" argument is no longer valid, since Garen has a 11% and Mundo a 9% play rate they are the top picks across all elos at the moment. This is a fact, nothing to argue here.

I would like to talk about how it impacts the Lane and the gaming experience of those players who go Top. Since they make up 20% of all picks (34% with Darius!) this means they push out a lot of champions top lane. This would not be problematic until a certain point where their kits are so overtuned that the champions have a death-grip on the lane.

Let's focus on Garen for a bit. An old champion with an old kit and that is quite alright (I don't like reworks). He should be teaching the basics of top lane for new players and apparently Riot agrees since you get Garen for free if you start a new account now. However when this champion is buffed to the point where he is a top pick even in Diamond elo you start to wonder...what is there to learn about top lane now. True damage hypercarry bruisers now LOSE to Garen according to every single statistic site I could find. This means the game no longer incentivizes you to learn complex, high risk high reward champions. The Mundo / Garen run-at-the-enemy meta has several other harmful effects on the lane:

Results:

  • top lane is a non-interactive farm lane when these champions are involved
  • skill expression opportunities are very few given the simplicity of these kits
  • champion diversity is harmed. If we put Darius into the mix then the three of them (Darius, Garen, Mundo) account for 34,5% of ALL PICKS in the lane. That means every third players picks one of these champs because there is no reason not to pick them
  • top lane has stopped being rewarding to those who spend years mastering a kit.
  • Tanks / Juggernauts no longer have a weak early game which used to be the counterplay to their scaling for 7 seasons. Dirt cheap items, great scaling...and now strong early game. Something went wrong here. since items are dirt cheap and death no longer sets back a lot of these champions it does not matter what you do with them in lane.

Possible causes:

Runes Reforged and the Tank class update adjusted the base stats of these champions to an unhealthy level. Then you spend patch after patch buffing bad and outdated kits. I am talking about Chogath, Nasus, Maokai, Mundo, Garen etc. Chogath no longer loses stacks upon dying, brutal buffs to Q and R. Nasus receives even more free stats on his ult, Mundo regeneration buff just to name a few. Then you hit these champs with very small, very tiny nerfs which do not in any way make them less tanky.

Meddler said earlier that laning should be an ENGAGING PvP experience where skill determines the outcome and one laner may emerge stronger when the phase ends. This is in no way true to top lane anymore when a tank / juggernaut is present.

My question is: when is it going to be enough? How strong do you think bad kits should be? You are losing players Riot Games at a rapid rate. If you seek to make League great again then I suggest you take a good long look at what's going on top because the season 6 tank meta was NOTHING compared to how unfun and non-interactive this game has become Top Lane.

Thank you for reading.

Scuttle7/20/2018, 4:14:17 PM3 votes

Since you mentioned the camera bug, what about snowball aram bug? Will it be hotfixed? It's really messing up aram.

Fyzz517/20/2018, 4:47:07 PM3 votes

Any context on the support item changes? It looks to me like the removal of 3 health pot/refill pot starts will only widen the gap between poke supports and enchanters/tanks

rRefluxX7/20/2018, 8:00:24 PM3 votes

Will we get another champion roadmap soon, with only Nunu left on the schedule?

Also, could you comment on the state of Diana? She's in a pretty bad spot rn...She's bugged and she is hard-countered if she can't land her Q, and there are too many ways to deny her to be very viable. Will she receive some kind of update to her abilities or at least some utility buffs?

Reign of Squid7/20/2018, 9:25:01 PM3 votes

Hey devs, Actually, do you think that Sivir has a satisfying kit? Her passive feels quite weak with all those stuff which can make the same thing (fleetfootwork, stormrazor, celerity)

(Sorry for spamming)

Rathar Dashing7/20/2018, 4:10:52 PM3 votes

How's Zoe Looking after her 2 recent nerfs?

Fishmaster90007/20/2018, 4:11:50 PM2 votes

I am having a bug where when im locked and i try to click on the mini map i have to hold or press a few times. Is this the bug you are talking about?

BleKz7/20/2018, 4:18:48 PM2 votes

Any thoughts on Fizz after the changes? He feels smooth to play but pretty weak, when can we expect followup changes?