Skip to content

Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 26

RiotMeddler··1 votes·76,167 views

Hey all,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Splitting Precision's Stats

At this point it's looking very likely that in 8.4 we make it so Precision splits its stats with your other tree selected. That means Precision primary/Sorcery secondary would give AS and AD, as would Domination primary/Sorcery secondary etc. Same change that was made with Resolve recently, which overall seems to have been a net positive in terms of opening up Rune choice more. It's also got the benefit that now regardless of which combination of paths you're choosing you'll get some of the primary path and some of the secondary (though with Sorc+Domination both are Adaptive AD/AP of course). Not expecting this change to address all the issues with stats in the Runes system, we do think it'll help noticeably though and is something we can change quite quickly.

While we think it will open up Precision primary to a wider range of champs it does have some downside for champions who want to take Precision secondary but don't want attack speed much. Something we'll be testing as a result is skewing the stats split towards one tree in some cases. Sorcery primary/Precision secondary in particular might end up looking something like 70% AP/30% AS, rather than the straight 50%/50% splits Resolve uses with all the non Inspiration

pairings.


Mid-Season: Opening up Bot Lane

About a week back we put out a video dev diary covering some of our goals for gameplay in 2018. Worth a look if you haven't seen it:

https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/01/dev-diary-gameplay-in-2018/

One thing mentioned there I figured it would be good to talk about a bit more is our plan to open up bot lane to a wider range champions in the farming position. It's something we've been interested in, and talked about, for a long time, but haven't dedicated the needed effort to to properly support non marksmen there. That's meant a game state where marksmen have been effectively a required pick as a result. A lot of players have called us on that, in particular that we've talked of wanting to support more diversity, but haven't opened up the most consistent part of team comps.

Our biggest goal with mid-season is to change that, make it so it's a really effective choice to sometimes run a comp that doesn't have a marksmen in bot lane, or potentially doesn't have a marksmen at all. It's kind of workable at present, but we agree should be a lot more so. That's likely to involve work on items for non marksmen bot lanes, adjusting some supports so that they've got stronger synergies with non marksmen, maybe changes to things like how towers take damage even. We generally want to stay away changing individual champs so that they go bot though, this is about opening up the position to other classes, not putting mechanics on champs that are bot lane specific.

Details overall still being worked on - we're just kicking off planning and investigation right now.

It's likely that, at least initially, we're supporting a range of non marksmen in bot, but that a number of other classes still don't have a way to succeed there (e.g. a lot of mages might be effective choices there, but skirmishers not). Assuming the initial opening up worked well we'd then want to continue to gradually open the position up over time.


Spell Agro Fallout

Very early days on this (writing when we've only seen about 12 hours of play or so). So far though it doesn't look like any champ's got hammered too hard by this change. Pantheon looks to be one of the most affected, but, at least off early data and observation seems to be a fairly mild power loss still. More thoughts to follow once the change has been out for a decent amount of time, no compensation changes planned yet at least though.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

375 Comments

Marlon19524 votes

Hey Meddler! Any news on where lissandra falls? She seems like she could use some help

MajorDanger6 votes

@Meddler: If you're planning on doing anything... which playstyle would you embrace?

For Control Mage/Catcher/Initiator:

  • Reduce the W CD by 2s at all levels (4.4s at max rank w/45% CDR as opposed to 5.5s)
  • Change the E speed from 850 to 1200 when directed at enemy champions
  • Change the E range from 1050 to 1200 when directed at enemy champions

Explanation:

Being able to move 1200 units after 1s would really help w/initiations. Reducing the W CD would help with control. Not touching the ratios b/c they're in a good enough spot for a Control mage.

 

For Burst Mage:

  • Make the W AP ratio 60% again (revert the W change from patch V4.13)

Explanation:

She doesn't do enough dmg at the moment with her effective buildpaths to be classified as a "Burst Mage"

RiotMeddler5 votes

Power wise, potentially a bit on the weak side, especially given when she's picked it's often as a counterpick, so might expect better than average performance (she looks pretty average stats wise).

In mid lane in particular she suffers from the same problem a lot of champs do, which is that a small number of champs who are consistent, reliable and fairly generalist crowd others out (Malz, Taliyah, Orianna, Azir etc), both in high MMR solo queue and pro play. Our priority's going to be on addressing them as a result, given that helps a lot of other champs who are overshadowed. We'll take a look at her as well, see if we should be doing power work to her specifically, both considering mid and other positions, likely we get to hitting those overperformers first though.

Northmund1 votes

Your "A BIT" is a spit into Lissandra players face. Her passive is obsolete version of mannaflow, she scales meh, there are champions that have a better CC spells and are tanky or deal more damage. Change her passive ASAP! If you will fail at that point (you are riot after all), buff her scales so she will at least be viable at niche moment she is picked.

Hungry Cancer2 votes

I've been suggesting a new passive for awhile for Lissandra because I love her but her passive is a waste and she's currently nothing like she was when I first started playing LoL; she was a frontline anti-assassin mage similar to Vlad but now she's just a squishy short range mage with pitiful damage and her only defensive is her ultimate so once she uses it she's stuck in the back where she's useless due to her range, so I'd love for her passive to be changed to grant her some durability. The passive I've been suggesting is whenever she spends mana she gains a rapidly decaying shield equal to a percentage of her current mana. That would massively improve her play I think and would bring her back to being a real frontline mage because having a defensive ult does not enable her to be a true frontline mage because of the long downtime on ultimates.

Northmund1 votes

Hope she won't be treated like Aatrox, forgotten for years then receives changes so bad, that every patch after he was getting buffed.

Hungry Cancer2 votes

She already has been forgotten for years, I haven't seen any buffs or nerfs to her since I started in S5, she's always been niche and barely viable at best, which sucks because I love her but right now she's only viable against assassins because she hard counters them but anyone else will fuck her day.

Cameran15 votes

Any thoughts on Quinn? She’s in a weird place following the recent item and rune changes, with no real home in either top or bot. Additionally, her build paths (either lethality with dblade or crit, possibly with ER) either force her into a very short game clock before falling off or into too much farming to come online for a very brief window. Would like to see her focused towards one home rather than trying and failing to fit into two.

Adalvar14 votes

Hello Meddler.

I would like to know if the item 3010 tree will see any changes done to it in any forseeable future.

  • item 3001 due to it's passive, is more appealing on scaling mages than aggressive tanks by a very big margin.

  • item 3027 lost it's role as a scaling item, partially due to changes done in the mage update and the subsequent introduction of item 3001

  • item 3030 and last and certainly least of the bunch. This item has sub-par stats and a conditional active that overlaps with item 3116 while being less reliable. Not to mention it simply loses when compared to either of the above items.

Would you guys please include taking a look at this tree when the AP rebalancing takes place and create some better distinction between each item?

RiotMeddler5 votes

GLP at least is getting looked at. Tweaks to others possible, though less certain. Fingers crossed will be able to share a bunch of details in a couple of weeks.

Adalvar7 votes

Would you consider swapping the magic damage aura from item 3001 to item 3027? If the idea of item 3027 is scaling that aura makes perfect sense as a reward once the item becomes fully stacked.

Thank you for the reply in any way.

The Yetii Rider12 votes

What would be the point of Abyssal Mask, then?

Ephriell1 votes

change its stats a little, maybe alter the aura currently on it to make it more of tank item? idk

The Yetii Rider5 votes

The aura makes it a tank item. Your team deals more damage because of your ability to remain in close proximity to enemies for an extended period of time, which is something only a tank or a juggernaut can do (enough juggernauts don't have actual mana for this to be a solidly tank item, plus juggernauts love SV too much to give it up).

If, by 'alter the aura to make it a tank item' you mean have it give armor or MR...uh...we aren't doing that. That kind of thing was removed with Taric rework, item 3105 rework, Windspeaker's Blessing and Runic Bulwark being removed from the game. Currently there are actually very few ways for a champion to give another champion armor or MR, and certainly even fewer ways to give it to multiple champions at the same time.

Ephriell3 votes

I meant change the stats a to make it more of a tank focused item, and change the aura so that if you put the current aura on roa it would still be unique. I should've been clearer, but I was super tired when I typed that out. also, now that I'm not tired and can think clearly, putting that aura on roa would be really dumb, and unhealthy for the game

50000000000000001 votes

Do you mind explaining why it'd be unhealthy? It seems like a fairly reasonable addition, if the stats on RoA were to be reduced accordingly.

Ephriell2 votes

say you put the item on Ryze or Cassiopeia, champs who spam the hell out of their spells and already build Roa, or on a Veigar (I do a Ryze build that's really nice for survivability and dmg) all these champs already have high dmg w/o the aura, then you throw that on top of it and let your tank build a different item that gives another aura on top of that one. That's not really good for anyone to deal with and we'd have a item 3193 Chogath type situation on our hands, which isn't fun for anyone to deal with. and I personally feel that's the whole reason abyssal scepter was changed to a 'Tank' item, and the aura on item 3105 was removed

MajorDanger1 votes

MR - could make the mask give a 5% or 10% increase in MR in an aura to allied champs

The Yetii Rider3 votes

We JUST removed Aegis of the Legion's aura from the game. We are not putting another MR aura back in the game.

Wukong Airlines9 votes

@Meddler, what are your thoughts on MonkeyKing ? When can we expect upcoming changes for him? he desperately needs a viable passive, and more importantly, a VGU.

Kroosier7 votes

Hey Meddler, I hope you are doing well. Just want you to know that I appreciate your posts and really love reading em!

Small Boobs Ahri5 votes

Hi Meddler, what do you think of Zed acutelly? https://image.prntscr.com/image/1hHEACjrSqaZc7jr8XgYPw.jpeg

The champion is Top BanRate since many patches, but has had no change since all the time, and the new Runes on nothing change to are gameplay see not much, maybe think about doing something ?

RiotMeddler7 votes

I think Zed, like almost all assassins, is going to have a high ban rate if he's not clearly weak. He's got a theme a lot of players like too, which gives him a high play rate, so if you don't ban him it's fairly likely you'll see him in some Elos. Combination of those two factors means I'd expect he'll be one of the most banned champions even when balanced. Nothing currently planned for him as a result, though would be nice someday to make it so his counterplay didn't change as much by Elo (not well understood at Bronze/Silver, clearly understood leaving him struggling somewhat in high MMR/competitive, which is a trend with a number of assassins).

redniwediS5 votes

I loved hearing what had to be said in the Dev Diary you linked, but one thing that bothered me was the use of the word "bruiser". It may be applicable in this case, but it is a vague term by it's nature, as you and others pointed out a while back.

Any chance we'll see another push for using the class/subclass system? Not much of it is visible on the client, and many people on the boards seem to view Role and Class as interchangeable. I'm a big fan of the official classifications and the clarity it can bring to conversation, so I'm just wondering if there are any plans to make it more accessible to people who don't necessarily keep up with past changes or the wiki.

LethalTempo Jhin4 votes

Hey Meddler, what is the current status of Jhin ?

RiotMeddler6 votes

Suspect we'll get the ult buffs we were testing a few weeks ago back in for 8.4. That's a prediction, not a certainty though. As with GP we'll be doing some 8.4 planning next week.

Diamond2Kappa1 votes

Jhin was overpowered with comet and lethality, then fleet got buffed and sustain relic shield adcs became a thing, what you do? You buff Jhin :]

LethalTempo Jhin7 votes

Jhin was not overpowered, he was strong (MF was the only overpowered ADC that time), he was like top 3.

Then basically every rune + lethality Jhin used got nerfed and became trash tier, troll pick.

meteorbreaker4 votes

Hi Meddler!

I'm again about Zyra :) What do you think about Zyra now? Her role as a champion of support is still firmly in the lead. In my opinion, she needs a little more help to return to the midlane and to survive the jungle against strong junglers in early game (et. Kha, Elise and others) Another couple of small buffs, at least at least to check how this will affect the solo lane.

For example:

Health growth increased to 84 from 79

W: New Passive - All Zyra skills, as well as flower damage, passively increase scales by 0.02 / 0.04 / 0.06 / 0.08 / 0.10 AP or 0.03 / 0.06 / 0.09 / 0.12 / 0, 15 AP.

RiotRiot MapleNectar11 votes

She currently has almost equal performance between mid and support (first time in awhile), though her playrate is heavily skewed towards support. As such she doesn't really have the room for any more buffs, but will benefit if the meta shifts from strong early game junglers.

Arveanor7 votes

How do you determine whether or not to touch a champion who is not finding success in an unfavorable meta? If talon is struggling in a lategame teamfight meta, or syndra is doing poorly when everyone is trying to 1-3-1 etc, how far is it ok for a champion to dip if it's just a meta issue, or when do you decide to try to shift the meta and leave the specific champions alone until then, etc?

Just curious on those thought processes off the back of your comment.

iahim984 votes

Could you at least make her ult mana cost not increase with ranks? Right now she is one of the few champs left (4-6 left) that still get mana cost increased on her ult (100/120/140), more for consistency sake, kinda what sona got a long time ago.

Urane King4 votes

Hey Meddler! Do you know when they will be releasing the New Champion Roadmap?

RiotMeddler23 votes

Next week.

RiotRiot MapleNectar44 votes

missed opportunity to say "fairly soon". You disappoint me.

KBlazeBall11 votes

I like next week better

50000000000000002 votes

How dare you prefer something other than Soon™

Holgranth4 votes

Hey Meddler I saw on the new "Gameplay Goals" video that you are trying to make Champions viable in multiple roles again. Any chance that Jungle Nautilus will be looked at? I feel very strongly that he could be made viable and balanced by adding bonus damage to monsters to his w or e without giving him too much power as a support or top laner. I bought Nautilus in 2012 to play as a jungler. I am very disappointed that Riot has let this play style get destroyed. Why don't you give struggling junglers bonus damage vs monsters more often? I feel like its a good solution to prevent them from having too much damage vs other champions or pushing power in lane.

Winterkill3 votes

What is the current state of the Karma rework and what do you plan to do with her?

When is this new AP item coming out?

When is this new shield canceling item coming out?

A champion I have been wondering a lot about is Zilean. I don't think he is in a desperate need for drastic kit changes but his art is horrible. Is Zilean high on the list of VGU?

Anything exciting you can tell us about the new champion?


Thanks, have a nice day.

IxtaliKing7 votes

What is the current state of the Karma rework and what do you plan to do with her?

He answered this in the last gameplay post:

Nothing to report, we haven't got specific timing or scope identified. Will update when we do, will be a while though.

RiotMeddler6 votes

Yep. I'll offer visibility whenever there's something meaningful to talk about on Karma. I'm not going to do a Karma update every single post of 'nothing to report' for months if there's nothing to say though.

IxtaliKing6 votes

The Karma community appreciates that, thank you.

Impish Yordle3 votes

Are we going to see more changes to open up build paths and roles for champions (not just bot lane) like you did by promoting Ekko jungle and giving Rengo AP scalings on PBE? There are a lot of champions that could work in different ways or positions as well as those that have previously worked on certain positions but now no longer do. For example adc crit Kennen became one of the, if not the absolute worst adc choice as a result of his off-tank on-hit build getting nerfed even though his glass cannon crit build had a healthy niche. Can we expect more changes that can help promote those types of different playstyles?

RiotMeddler5 votes

Yes, we'll be trying to do more stuff like that, both at the individual kit level and items/runes that support alternative playstyles like that.

Sahn Uzal1 votes

In your last gameplay thoughts post you mentioned GP might still be too strong with Grasp, after the Kleptomancy nerfs. Grasp GP's winrate seems to have fallen a bit since that post, so I wonder if it is. Anyhow, is there news on him?

And if you do decide to nerf him, I'd recommend hitting his Plunder passive.

-A GP main with 880k+ mastery points :P

Idaisa v21 votes

Katarina nerfs still haven't appeared on PBE.

Adalvar4 votes

Her passive base damage took a hit at every level.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I'm curious about champs like Taric and Malph if marksmen are out of the game; I've always thought it would be nice to have MR scaling on Taric W for dealing with AP poke champs; a meta where it's possible to have no marksman makes those picks weaker first picks, in particular.

Do you think making champs like Taric and Malph, who scale with armor, more niche is okay (ala Galio with MR)? Are there any thoughts about how to do that, or is that kind of a "wait and see" type of concern?

RiotMeddler4 votes

Would still expect marksmen to be very common picks in bot lane. Between that and high physical damage champs in other positions not too concerned about champs whole scale with armor/counter AD. Would keep an eye on it of course, but think it should be fine.

More from Dev Corner

More by Meddler