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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 23

RiotMeddler·8/23/2019, 4:25:56 PM·1 votes·118,279 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Game Modes and Events

We've had fewer temporary modes available this year due to our focus on other work, TFT especially. We do want to get back to offering new or variant game modes more often though in the future, especially when there's a larger event happening. We're still figuring out details of how we'll approach that, wanted to mention that this was on our minds however. We agree with feedback that events are a lot better when there's something different to play in them in addition to missions, new cosmetics, etc.

Looking at how past modes have performed we've generally seen that players tend to play the most in modes that are fun variations on existing gameplay (e.g. One for All, ARURF, the ARAM events, Hexakill etc are SR/ARAM with a twist). It's likely we'll mainly be exploring options like that as a result. Modes that deviate significantly more from base LoL (e.g. Project: Overcharge or Dark Star) do generate a lot of initial excitement. Their play rate then plummets extremely quickly though. We’d rather spend time working on things players will enjoy for longer, hence that choice of focus.

In terms of timeframe that approach is going to be reflected next year in particular. Sometime in the remainder of this year we should have ARURF back at some point. Hoping to also get something else out there, though still discussing what's feasible and for when.

Ranked Regalia/Borders from TFT

Short note on these for anyone wondering. Right now we're using the regular LoL ranked art (borders, regalia etc) since that's what we had available for TFT launch. Longer term our plan is to make some TFT specific art to both better match the tone of the mode and make it clearer where someone earned a particular rating. We think it’s good for regalia etc to be displayed in a variety of contexts for people looking to display their accomplishments. Should also be clear though what exactly is being represented and shared art makes that somewhat unclear at present.

Some context on the next few patches

9.17 Changes are locked at this point and we've ended up pulling Aatrox and Akali from the patch.

9.18 Plan is to take another pass at Akali and Aatrox. Rather than just stats nerfs we'll be investigating small mechanics changes that are solo queue positive/pro negative if possible. We’ll also have some Teemo quality of life (ish) stuff likely in 9.18 too. Likely to be a fairly small patch overall, given focus on preseason and desire to keep things stable.

9.19 Is the patch Worlds will be played on so will also be fairly small on the SR side. Will have some balance changes in it based off whatever’s needed at the time, not planning anything beyond reactive balance work for it though.

9.20+ Here we'll shift focus more towards a mixture of solo queue driven work. Shaco and Garen work potentially land in or around 9.20 for example. The SR team will also be spending a lot of their time getting preseason changes ready.

Preseason: Potential Edge of Night change

Speaking of preseason we're looking at updating at least a few items in preseason. One case that's been testing well so far is Edge of Night. Current plan is to change the spellshield on it to a Banshee's Veil one (refreshes every X seconds while out of combat instead of having it come from a channeled active. For those of who you use EoN regularly, or have in the past, would love to get your thoughts on how you'd feel about such a change?

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

267 Comments

Amaterasu658/23/2019, 4:40:00 PM68 votes

A lot of players loved the PvE modes you brought to us. Especially the escalating difficulty and the hard missions that you thought to spice them up. I feel very disappointed, because once a year the last 2 years made it feel as a custom for me and many players. I don't think that one PvE mode per year or per year and a half woukd be that detrimental.

Most of my friendlist wanted groups to do them in a proper manner, it's not like people do not like them. I understand that after you do all the missions you don't really have a reason to return, but there's a good portion in League who enjoy an occasional themed PvE concept.

PiggyTheAstro8/23/2019, 4:32:04 PM39 votes

So that most likely means low chances of us getting a PvE gamemode like odyssey?

DCYOUNG8888/23/2019, 4:34:01 PM33 votes

Are AP Bruiser item reworks still planned for preseason and if so are they different than the ones shown a few months ago?

Frosted Tips8/23/2019, 4:37:06 PM21 votes

I really hope that this preseason is very much focused on items. The game really needs Tank MR items, AP Bruiser items, Mage items looked into since almost everyone goes item 3285 and item 3165. Healing in game is super problematic. Also I think Riot really needs to make item 3165 and item 3075 two separate items. Like item 3165 should be split into one Penetration item and one Grievous Wounds item, and item 3075 was even talked about when it was reworked that it was a temporary fix. It needs to be split in two as well. One Grievous Wounds item and one AA damage reflection item.

Sharpest glasses8/23/2019, 4:44:03 PM13 votes

Can you tell us if we will play this whole season with the current Wukong ?

Cryodrake8/23/2019, 4:55:15 PM12 votes

Ok i need to make this clear, that Edge of Night idea is terrible. Assassins are some of the most slippery champions in the game with built in mechanics of getting in and getting out, one of their main weaknesses is Hard CC, most assassins will die if they get hard CC. But now lets imagine you give them this change, instead of having to choose and think about when they should use it they can just have it all the time, champions like talon, zed, yasuo, shaco, who are already hard to pin down, can now have a shield all the time that you have to first use a spell first to break then have another spell to hard CC them, and lets not forget they already have one item to get out of hard CC QSS, if they had both it would be nearly impossible to catch them.

And assassins aren't the only ones who would might abuse this, imagine an ADC or AD jungler with this on, unless the out of combat is like 20 sec it wouldn't take that long for just sit and wait for a free spell shield to come back, now stack that on top of Morgans black shield, QSS, Sivir spell shield, or any AD champion with a dash or CC removing ability, it would be a nightmare. Nocturne (thats another thing, nocturnes E is also a spell shield)

The current Edge of night offers a lot and its lasts 7 sec to get in and fight which is a long time for certain fights, and it gives the enemy away to combat it by waiting it out. Its strong but has counter such as assassins needing to time it right and enemies can wait out the shield. But if you make an assassin item have a permanent free spell shield on all the time, that removes a lot of counter and just stacks on to the options assassins already have in ways of getting in and removes ways for enemies to fight back. So this change is bad and i think if it was pushed would lead to nothing but frustration in trying to fight assassins or any AD champion who can take advantage of this.

FF12248/23/2019, 4:36:32 PM12 votes

Really dislike the Edge of Night change. Giving players agency is crucial in certain situations. I get it, low elo players forget to use items. But this change would benefit Karthus the most of any champ. Assassins have a hard enough time due to his absurd damage. Not being able to mitigate Karthus R will just nerf Karthuses greatest counters...

Jabalor8/23/2019, 4:37:26 PM12 votes

What about PVE modes like Odyssey: Extraction?

FrancisMuni8/23/2019, 5:27:12 PM10 votes

I'm going to keep complaining about the fact that Skarner has been ignored for years until it's fixed. The champ consistently has less than 1% play rate. Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner Skarner

AIQ8/23/2019, 4:35:31 PM9 votes

Hey Meddler,

Gameplay wise... Months ago you said that you'd implement a Shyvana QOL buff. Scaling with Elder late. What happened that this didn't work out?

Could Shyvana Gain fury while dead?

Bugs... Kaisa Has that super annoying healing bug, can someone just disable her voice line until it's fixed?

Warwick has a slew of bugs, the largest is his W and losing his bonus stats due to having a healthy target between him and his hunted target. Any chance that's being looked into?

Will NB be back this year? I'd like to throw out a suggestion for a mini game in it. Dragonpocalypse: basics are teams fight dragons only starting at 5 for every 1 they take down 2 stronger ones take their place after 30 seconds an Elder spawns that basically is there to end the round faster. Team to survive the longest wins.

In preseason hows AP Bruisers items looking?

Edit: How's Pantheon doing from your perspective?

PkMange8/23/2019, 4:49:33 PM9 votes

While you're at it, could you also make Banshee's spellshield look the same as EoN's? It always bothered me that they were essentially the same thing but for some reason Banshee's looks 240p while EoN looks ALMOST IDENTICAL but more polished.

There never has been a reason to have them look different imo since what champ built what should be obvious, as one item is catered to mages and the other to AD assassins, but now that they're gonna share (what I assume is going to be) a Unique Passive, might as well have it look the same on both items, no?

I know this sounds super irrelevant and it honestly is, just a little thing that bugged me since EoN's introduction :p

Smeagiul8/23/2019, 4:44:02 PM9 votes

8 months later and still no changes to the support role or any sort of discussions

Naalith8/23/2019, 4:45:39 PM8 votes

I'm not sure about the EoN change. The issue with Banshee's veil is that it takes way too long to turn on and any damage resets the timer. Many EoN users are junglers who are always fighting camps so it would basically ruin the item if you have to sit in the brush for 45 seconds before ganking to activate the shield. I'd say leave it be.

After Worlds are you planning to buff back pro play champions that were nerfed for Worlds? Also, any thoughts on Irelia?

TomiMan78/23/2019, 5:19:08 PM7 votes

Any changes to Brand to better suit mid than support?

FeatherPaw8/23/2019, 8:56:12 PM7 votes

Hey Meddler, I know that it's not the topic of todays Gameplay thoughts, but since there are Zyra changes currently testing on PBE, I wanted to know if you consider a follow up on her.

Main issue, aside from plant health, that many of the Zyra playerbase have is that her kit is loaded with anti-synergy. What I mean with that is that her Spells don't line up well and don't really match together, as most other champions' spells do. Especially for a burst mage that becomes a major problem.

Examples of these anti snyergies are:

  • her spells' ranges don't match eachother in any way.

E's range is higher than Q's range, which means you have to walk up after rooting someone. R's range is lower than Q's range, wich means you have to walk AGAIN to do your fullcombo. And W? It's somewhere inbetween, higher than Q but not as high as E and that doesn't make any god damn sense. Especially simce she has to stop and stand still for every spell, unlike for example Syndra.

  • her spells' shapes are a mess.

E being a line but Q being a rectangle is really anti-synergetic because you can't hit two people with Q if you rooted them with your E. And that's just bad and unfair. Not to mention that it defeats the purpose of AoE - Mage.

  • Zyra's base stats are really strange.

Health and armor start off pretty high, but they scale really badly. At level 18 she has amongst the lowest health pools and armor values of all mages, even being "outtanked" by higher ranged champs like Xerath, Ziggs and Heimerdinger. And that's strange because it should be actually the other way around. Zyra's early, as we all know, can be really oppressive because Plants are a real threat. However, given how badly they scale and how fast they die, they don't pose much threat to bruisers or tanks in the late game. Making her much easier to kill in the later stages, especially since her actual spell ranges aren't even that high and she basically has to be inside of enemies to set a good R. That's why a lower base HP and armor, but a higher growth would make a lot more sense.

  • Zyra's level-scaling basically stops at level 13.

The only thing that Zyra gains from level 13 onwards is a really, REALLY low amount of plant damage and a few seconds off of W CD. And that's almost nothing. Which means the only "scaling" she has at that point comes from items. But oh wait, her item scaling is bad aswell, since she doesn't have major AP scalings. While other mages and support are still gaining shieldstrength, damage, healing, attackspeed and other stuff from level 13 onwards, Zyra is left behind and falls off. In all instances. The R buff can possibly change that a little bit, because the new cooldown on rank 3 is pretty nice actually. But her scaling is still... pretty bad. And by that I mean exp AND gold scaling.

Sorry for the rant, but I really love(d) Zyra and it honestly makes me sad to see the state she is in. It's not like she is bad. But she is in such a weird spot that her winrate is just so stable because her early game is super oppressive and her late game non-existant. Of course I know that not every champ can scale the same, we need early strong and weak leate kinda champs. But to my mind Zyra's case is just unreasonable.

A smoother scaling and a smoother powercurve could make her, once again, more interesting for high elo. It could prevent her from being too oppressive on support while also making sure that she is not useless in late game or when she falls behind. AND it could/would make her midlane a lot more viable because the exp and gold ressources that she gathers are no longer wasted.

LL Justice8/23/2019, 4:42:00 PM7 votes

that Galio change seems to be more towards support galio than mid lane galio.

I would like to know your opinion on them and if you think they will be enough to make Mid lane galio playable.

xXDaBoozeXx8/23/2019, 4:52:01 PM6 votes

AP Itemization?????????

Frosted Tips8/23/2019, 5:26:54 PM6 votes

Are you guys looking into TP since it has yet again become a 3 TP per team Meta in Proplay?

Nibbie2178/23/2019, 4:46:20 PM6 votes

Im a little hesitant on the EoN banshees change, most of its users are slippery enough, I feel like the change would just mean that certain champs just cant be caught out on a mistake (lookin at you, pyke), maybe give it a stat nudge and/or reduce the channel time? As it is it doesnt feel good to have to wait a second before going in to get the spell block, but I dont think making it like banshees is gonna be fun to play against.

2Charmnot2Charm8/23/2019, 9:51:40 PM5 votes

item 3814 I'm no AD assassin player, but the nice thing about Edge of Night is the fact they have CONTROL of when it's being used. They don't have to worry about it being popped by random 0 value skillshots.

It getting popped by a random Ezreal Q or waveclear spell (even item 3285 proc off of minions/teammates) doesn't help the player much because those cooldowns are so short and expendable that it doesn't matter.

It's better used for blocking CC (Actual valuable spells that need to be blocked) when you're coming in from a flank.

I would never buy item 3102 for this reason alone since its likely just gonna get popped by the Ludens proc off of one of my own teammates than it is to actually help me out, and instead get item 3157 whenever I need to dodge important CC/Spells as a Mage.

my nama jeff8/24/2019, 2:15:03 AM5 votes

@Meddler , I don't think that is a great idea for Edge of Night. Here is why:

As a mage, you are usually the target for the enemy team so they will be trying to catch you off guard and pick you off. This is where the banshee's veil comes in. It's shield (assuming not on cooldown) is always up, ready to save you from any unexpected attempt by the enemy team to catch you out. As a champion that builds edge of night, (usually assassins) you are going to be the one that is proactively making the plays and deciding when you want to strike. In this scenario, it is a lot more helpful to be able to activate the spellshield before going in so you know it will be ready for you.

Alpha MaIek8/23/2019, 9:14:50 PM5 votes

Did you know that some of your players play this champion released 5 years ago called Rek'Sai? RekSai

This elusive champion used to be one of the top most fun junglers to play with her tunnels that give her mobility and high damage with her combos.

Now she's a old shell of her older dominant self, left to rot with mediocre damage, unfun mechanics only 2 skins, her newest one being a joke skin from Pool Party 2015. At this point, newer and more popular champions have gotten legendary and prestige skins (think Kaisa Jhin Kayn Ekko and most importantly Pyke ) or even reworks and changes that still keep them fresh to play to this patch.

Lots of us here Rek'Sai mains would love to see Rek'Sai updates, maybe give her a Quality skin to show how much Rioters care about us or, y'know, a better passive that does more for her, maybe let her bring her Void spawn with her to wreck some havoc, or a better more interesting and convoluted set of spells (making her Q and E more rewarding, impactful and interesting spells) like some of the better champions out there these days.

We Rek'Sai mains really appreciate your work and hope to see some Rek'Sai action this year at Worlds. RekSai item 3031

warpenguin5558/23/2019, 4:42:20 PM5 votes

As long as you make Edge of Night share a unique passive with Banshee's Veil it might work. The last thing I want to play against is a double spell shielded Kai'sa or Ezreal.

Daddy Ants8/23/2019, 5:30:16 PM4 votes

When are we going to see nerfs to the dominant marksmen?

Jinx Kaisa

Almost Creative8/23/2019, 4:59:29 PM4 votes

Are y'all still working on the Ivern changes or did they get scrapped?

Blood Teller8/23/2019, 5:01:46 PM4 votes

I really hope you guys consider making Akali Akali R1 targetable again like you were planning before to reduce her safety and slipperiness.

beany8/23/2019, 4:45:37 PM4 votes

Do you think Yuumi needs something about her core concept fundamentally changed? Even with the latest nerfs she is still pick/ban in pro. Have you entertained the idea of her taking a % of the damage her partner takes, in return for reverting some of her other nerfs? Or do you think that she's going to remain a champion that's just overvalued in pro play? (not having to worry about the support being caught out and dying is a pretty big deal after all).

Padoµch8/27/2019, 11:54:01 AM3 votes

I would love to know, srsly, why is most of the champions left to rot, while few being picked in almost all games? At op gg maokai is seen as RIP, noone is playing him, and why? Because he is a pure tank, after you killed AP Maokai with the rework! Why are you killing ways to play a champion, while actually letting the one way of playing that champion being unplayable? This is with Zyra mid, Maokai, Galio, Shaco, Skarner.... Udyr still hasnt got any VGU, and look at his animations lol.

mabarry38/23/2019, 4:56:03 PM3 votes

I quite like EoN as it is now. It feels like something you can reactively use to incoming fire or in dire scenarios (while stealthed as Kha'Zix, during an incoming Karthus ult, etc) or you can just use it proactively before you engage. I think it feels much better than Banshee's does as a spellshield because frequently Banshees feels like it only benefits those who either permanently flank (never getting hit by anything until all-inning) OR far back line mages like Vel'Koz or Xerath who try to never get in range of anything unless all inning because they can just poke and hit Q's from afar.

It being useful in both scenarios makes me quite like the item, and given that it gives a marginally different stat line than DB/GB I quite like it as an alternative for when you really want lethality but also want to not go full ham into it and want to dabble a bit into the defensive side as well.

KMS Bismarck8/23/2019, 5:14:34 PM3 votes

I'll take EoN active over Banshee anyday Banshee usually pop off before you are about to go in

I do feel assassins can sometime have to many active items since you may also builditem 3077 or item 3140 But what about making it like Bloodletter’s Veil instead? https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10849483/Bloodletters_Veil.PNG

Danger Penguin8/23/2019, 5:26:08 PM3 votes

Hello Meddler, I would like to encourage your team to rethink the timing of preseason currently. We get light and relatively meaningless patches for the three patches after worlds patch. The preseason hits early to mid December, holidays occur so not a lot is done (and everyone deserves that time off, so no judgement), and then scramble in January because not enough iterations on the preseason changes. I, for one, would like more time with the preseason changes where people are actively iterating on them so the start of each season isn't spent with massive upheaval. Just a suggestion. Thank you.

PandaNator438/23/2019, 5:31:47 PM3 votes

item 3814

Banshee's Veil is not as much fun to use as Zhonya's. Is there any way to keep the Edge of Night ability as an active?

Have you tested an iteration that gives a very brief window of tenacity? As an assassin, I would love a release valve against teams stacked with CC. Something like:

On activation (no channel time), gain 75% tenacity for .5 seconds.

I'd love to know how that tests out. Initial thought is that the affect is too effective against teams with only one CC but not effective enough against teams that are stacked with CC. Maybe something like

passive: On being hit with hard CC, gain 75% tenacity for 2 seconds.

Idk, thats almost like an inverse Banshee's Veil: Let the first spell hit, but negate the rest...

Would love to know if you've ever tested anything like this.

MuminsAreGreat8/23/2019, 5:53:04 PM3 votes

Ehm you want to keep the game "stable"? Some random elements in the game + the enourmous amounts of dmg that champions, runes and items have makes the game UNSTABLE by default! CS 1.6 was played by tons of people many years without any changes what so ever, stop ruining the fundamental idea of LoL!

Blue Comfort8/23/2019, 6:13:40 PM3 votes

I am sorry but when are we getting Star Guardian back? I wanna play it again. Are we going to get a new event with different skins?

Neamean8/23/2019, 4:52:56 PM2 votes

Would it be possible to have hexakill on Twisted Treeline despite it's retirement.