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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 11

RiotMeddler··1 votes·49,909 views

Hi all,

Apart from the upcoming duo release (Xayah/Rakan) we're pretty focused on mid-season right now. Imagine we'll be talking about our plans for that, possible followup, and actual followup for a while to come.


AD item changes

Along with the durability item changes there are now also some AD item changes on the PBE. They're part of the mid-season changes too, so won't be shipping in 7.8, which means they'll vanish for a few days as we test a final 7.8 build at some point.

More context on the AD changes at the link below, short version is:

  • Reducing % armor pen/shred in the item system (too high, invalidating armor purchases too much when multiple sources are stacked).
  • Zeal item tweaking to do things to make it so Runaan's isn't simply the best choice in too many circumstances (currently best AOE, best single target and best build path), Kircheis Shard isn't as weak if you have to sit on it for a bit, RFC is more about increased range attacks/less about damage etc
  • Tweaking IE, Zeal to offer a bit more of an power spike like other frequent early/mid game items
  • Tuning big lifesteal items (BotRK is too strong, others too weak, so nerfing it and buffing Death's Dance, BT, Ravenous Hydra slightly)
  • Making Greivous Wounds less accessible in AD builds

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/Ejyoz66h-midseason-ad-itemization-changes


Amumu

In 7.7 we made some changes to Amumu, which included a new passive that amps magic damage. Due to some internal miscommunication we ended up shipping a version that gives 15% bonus true damage calculated off the amount of magic damage dealt post mitigation. That's effectively bonus magic damage rather than true, since it's calculated after MR's done its things already. We'll be changing it in 7.8 as a result. Since 15% true damage is a lot stronger than 15% magic damage and Amumu's looking fairly strong already we'll be toning that number down though (current value in testing is 8%).


Randuin's

We've got some further experimental changes to Randuin's Omen underway at the moment that will probably be hitting PBE sometime today. Long term we think we'll probaly position crit as a multiplier that lets marksmen get through tankier targets, without being as effective as it is at present against squishies. We were testing one way of doing that until a couple of weeks ago with IE's passive being changed so it added armor pen to crits instead of increasing crit damage, though we didn't get enough confidence from testing that that was something we should ship in mid-season given it's a pretty major change. In that context Randuin's having crit reduction didn't make sense (if crits are for killing tankier targets reduced crit damage arguably belongs on an item for squishy champs instead). Since we're not going with that change though Randuin's will likely get its crit reduction back, at least until we potentially look at crits in general again (unlikely to be before pre-season at the earliest).


Support Item Changes

Starting support item changes will be part of the 7.9 PBE deploys at this point, they're not quite going to be ready in time for testing during 7.8. More details on those to come later in the week. One thing I will mention in advance though is that we're changing the actions you need to take on the Ancient Coin line to something a bit more noticeable/skill expressive (so optimizing around it gives you more rewards if done well/less if done poorly, rather than being as flat as it currently is).

223 Comments

WoonStruck7 votes

Thoughts on Vlad and Lulu?

Sahn Uzal16 votes

The best lane ever.

RiotMeddler22 votes

Yeah, love me some support Vlad.

Dessem4 votes

Savage.

RiotMeddler14 votes

At this point we're generally putting most individual balance assessments on hold for a couple of weeks until we've seen the impact mid-season's had. Lulu's certainly been popular, and highly banned in some regions though not much in others. Expect we'll at least look at her. Vlad we'll definitely want to see impact of item changes etc on before deciding whether to put time into assessing him too.

Sexualsaurus6 votes

Hi meddler, Quick question with the new crit changes you want to introduce, do you also plan on adjusting some of the marksmen champions to make them more compatible with crit?

E.g Kindred or Quinn for instance?

RiotMeddler8 votes

Long term I suspect we'll still look at getting Kindred at least happier buying crit. Uncertain on Quinn, though definitely wouldn't rule it out.

Shadow Hazard3 votes

so short term kindred players (about 86% mains and otp's) are supposed to each the nerfs to 3 core items (BC+botrk+RH), and increased buffs to item against kindred (less health+more armor=doubly less effective passive and W). If riot is still seeing crit on kindred as a far off future, at least make sure kindred players feel happy about building their current stats (ad/health/attack speed).

Hikageya4 votes

Is there some change planed on nami?

HalcyonDweller3 votes

I'm missing some context here, why does Nami need changes?

Hikageya2 votes

Heard somewhere they were planing to nerf her. But i dont have the source.

RiotMeddler61 votes

We're going to remove her VO and give her legs instead of a fish tail so she can marry Jarvan IV.

In terms of balance changes, no, nothing planned right now.

Jeddy0176 votes

{quoted}

We're going to remove her VO and give her legs instead of a fish tail so she can marry Jarvan IV.

YOU MONSTERS!!! She'll be unplayable now!! How can I play her when Shyvana will kill Nami for taking her man???

Cremepie18 votes

Lmao. That little mermaid reference. WP.

Jeddy0175 votes

He also forgot to mention the new passive where "Under the Sea" constantly plays throughout the game. This will separate the good Namis from the great.

The Last Ballad2 votes

The great Nami's will avoid succumbing to insanity after the 3ed minute. High risk, high reward.

Skyroar4 votes

Meddler, Riot has been quite silent about Malzahar's current state. Tell us anything about him, please. Is Riot aware that his support nerfs are taking him away from his main role at mid? Are there any medium or long term plans for mid malzahar? Does he have a mini-rework scheduled to fix him? Are Riot designers unsatisfied with his kit?

You don't need to answer all these questions, but it would be good to get a glimpse of hope for Malzahar mid laners.

RiotMeddler15 votes

We'd like to make it so Malz is a decent solo laner again. We also don't think his support play's been healthy for the game, so don't plan on trying to support both solo Malz and support Malz. As a starting point we want to support newly discovered playstyles wherever we can. That stops being the case if they lack appropriate counterplay or are really damaging to game health in other ways though.

In terms of timing on work to get Malz back into solo lanes I'm not sure though sorry, it's behind the mid-season stuff for focused work right now and might be for a while.

Skyroar6 votes

{quoted}

We'd like to make it so Malz is a decent solo laner again. We also don't think his support play's been healthy for the game, so don't plan on trying to support both solo Malz and support Malz. As a starting point we want to support newly discovered playstyles wherever we can. That stops being the case if they lack appropriate counterplay or are really damaging to game health in other ways though.

In terms of timing on work to get Malz back into solo lanes I'm not sure though sorry, it's behind the mid-season stuff for focused work right now and might be for a while.

May I suggest a quick band-aid solution?

Have his E deal x% more damage against minions/ monsters.

Malzahar was known for his fast lane pushing with E before his rework, and with EW after his rework. However, since his W has been reworked a second time, and now that his voidlings are going to get nerfed to 2 health, his lane pushing has been bad and will get miserable. Adding some power back to his E, but only against minions, should bring back some of his mid lane strenghts without: 1) making him more oppressive vs. champions and 2) making him more oppressive as a support.

It might not be the best solution (he needs another rework, IMO), but it would make malz mid laners more confortable with his nerfs before Riot has the time to take a more serious look at him.

DCYOUNG88812 votes

Are there any plans on reverting Malzahar from what I heard from people in the boards? If not, is it possible to revert the change done in patch 6.23 in which the voidlings do more damage but less waveclear and voidling spawn because I feel like that's the root where Malzahar support started to rise.

aSeregon2 votes

A remake of his passive should go a fair way I think. His current passive is boring as heck, both to play with and against. Either a full revert to let him nuke someone again, or go all in with the voidling and E sustained damage even if you have to fully rework his ult then.

lightdragoon884 votes

Either revert the 6.23 changes or revert the whole rework until you can look at him again. This "press R" support crap that Malz is now is not working.

ProvidenceNox2 votes

I dont understand why you dont just revert him. You guys messed up his rework, and found out its unbalanceable so you're just going to put him in the dumpster for awhile? Dont you see a problem with that? Old malz was a balanced niche pick with dedicated mains, nows hes a trashed support with a different playstyle. Make malz malz again.. revert is seriously the best option

S0kaX3 votes

{quoted}

we're changing the actions you need to take on the Ancient Coin line to something a bit more noticeable/skill expressive (so optimizing around it gives you more rewards if done well/less if done poorly, rather than being as flat as it currently is).

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/121/835/ff8.gif

RiotMeddler53 votes

{quoted}

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/121/835/ff8.gif

Your strong, respectful and coherent argument has convinced me. Never again will we make changes to anything without checking with you first SonicMaster02.

EROTIC RAID BOSS2 votes

I actually wanted to ask about the coin thing because currently it's really a nice option for new players who tend to play support really passively.

RiotMeddler7 votes

Yeah, there's some risk there that we make things noticeably more rough for players still learning a bunch of other things. At the same time though we don't want to limit our ability to make support a more engaging position for experienced players because of players after a simpler or low activity playstyle. Would want to find an alternative way to help those players out if a problem does emerge as a result, rather than restricting our options as much.

Thales8 votes

One thing I like about the Coin line that I'd like to see preserved is that the gold generation holds up into late-game. If I'm on Face of the Mountain, it can be incredibly hard to get my teammates to let me cash in my stacks when they can clear a wave from long range in seconds. Similarly, with Spellthief's line, the later phases of the game lack the continuous interaction with the opposing team that lets me use that gold generation.

ProfDrDeath3 votes

Hello Meddler,

two questions from reading this:

  • What exactly are the nerfs to BotRK? Personally hoping for a cost increase, to position it in the range of the other major Lifesteal items (3500-3700 gold)...
  • Will you change Talisman of Ascension, the T3 Coin line item, beyond the gold generation passive? (I hope not).

Also, I liked the Randuin's/Crit-for-tank-busting change. Hope it will return come pre-season.

RiotMeddler7 votes

BotRK - currently a small cost increase.

Talisman - No changes currently planned for the active, components or general stats, though number tweaks especially are certainly possible.

I really liked the promise of crit-for-tank-busting, it's got some definite issues to solve though around things like how much your choice of champion versus build determines, interactions with other sources of armor pen, what appropriate power is versus squishies etc.

Chromatic Eagle3 votes

About the coin, are you trying to remake it into a general support item, or something that favors enchanters?

RiotMeddler4 votes

Should still be a good option on Enchanters, looking to make it a broader option too though (should still be an appealing choice on Blitz or Thresh for example both of whom have been regular uses at times).

Flemman3 votes

what if you make coin for enchanter, but switch face of the mountain and talisman active like you do with abyssal? Shield should be more appealing to enchanters support while it make more sense for tank support to get more option to run at poeple

Geshultz2 votes

the tank changes will indirectly nerf item 3153 through the armor increase on them and the health decrease meaning it will do less damage overall. So I would be curious to see how that plays out for the item.

Predatorator3 votes

Hi meddler, can you tell us if the xerath bug is being looked at? thank you!

RiotMeddler17 votes

The Xerath exploit's being looked at at present. I gather we've also banned some people already for using it too.

Predatorator4 votes

Many thanks!

CyberBalt1 votes

Are there any concerns with about true damage negating the downside for the Gargoyle Stoneplate item? Like Chogath ultimate, for example.

RiotMeddler7 votes

There's a bit of risk there yeah. Not too concerned in most cases, Cho and Darius are potential outliers though. One possible solve, should that actually turn out to be a problem, might be to add a slight self slow to the active so that while their damage may still be high they're limited in ability to close enough to use it on most targets for the duration.

Shadow Hazard10 votes

wouldn't it be better to have that self exhaust apply to true damage also rather than nerf it for everyone because of some outliers?

LostFr0st6 votes

Vayne Fiora were overlooked I see.

Häxel2 votes

yea cause you build a TEAMFIGHT TANK Item on SPLITPUSH CARRYS.

Fun aside, the item looks beside Chogath Darius good on Garen Olaf considering they have amounts of true dmg too and want to teamfight too kinda.

LostFr0st3 votes

I'm just saying... it wouldn't be the first time something unintended like that happened. >.> item 3025 item 3065 item 3068 Fizz / Ekko

Edit: What about new Amumu passive.

Häxel1 votes

fizz/ekko are not main splitpush, more assassins. They can be build tank but still they want to deal some dmg, going that item would jsut make them useless.

LostFr0st1 votes

Were you here during the time when those two had that as literally their meta builds? I wish I was joking, but I'm not. They had to change a ton on both champs all throughout last year to remove that build from the meta.

The Last Ballad1 votes

They built that because it allowed them to do crap loads of damage while still being tanky. Having your damage reduced by 60%(or is it to 60%?) would not be helpful to that goal.

LostFr0st1 votes

Vayne Fiora do % health true damage. The damage reduction would not apply to their main damage source but they'd get all the benefits of the item's resistances while doing their 1v5 big plays.

The Last Ballad2 votes

Yeah, those two will be an issue if nothing is done about it. Tank Ekko/Fizz? Not so much(at least as far as this item's active is concerned).

GarlicFries2 votes

Amumu Amumu has to build a lot of damage to make us of his own passive super effectively, which would make the item worse in return. It's definitely more for other members of his party (Vladimir Vlads, Rumble Rumbles, and Kennen Kennens).

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