Quick Gameplay Thoughts: Feb 21

RiotMeddler·Feb 21, 2017·1 votes·61,869 views

Hi all,

Some stuff on our minds below. As a reminder some of what gets discussed in these posts is tentative, or theoretical, not a thing that's definitely happening that we're just failing to share all the confirmed the details about.

Rek'Sai

Rek'Sai's mini-update (similar in scope to Shyvana and Alistar's ones last year) is coming along well gameplay wise. Goal is to shift her so she's more fighter/less tank than she currently is, with more focus on personal kill potential and less on CC/team initiation. Also looking to improve satisfaction on the ult, with that likely being the spell that changes the most.

10 Bans in Pro

We're still monitoring the impact of the new ban system on pro play. So far it looks pretty good from our perspective, with some increase in champion diversity and champ select interest likely attributable to the ban changes. We've still got some caution that the setup of the second ban phase might be overly favorable to red side long term though. Some degree of that's deliberate to offset blue advantage earlier and map geo that often favors blue. At present there's also a pro team consensus that certain champs are must ban for red side, which makes pick/ban pretty rough for red. Some skew in red's favor later in the draft's helpful on those grounds too, at least right now.

As a side point we're also currently looking at what work we'll need to do so that the 10 ban pro system is available in tournament draft custom games once the new client ships. Regular matchmade games will use a different 10 ban system. We do want to make sure players seeking tournament style practice, or looking to run their own tournaments, have the option of doing so though.

Mid-Season

Mid-season looks like it'll probably be patch 7.9 or 7.10 based on our current planning. We'll be doing a Vanguard update, some changes to defensive items and probably a couple of other things that aren't far enough into testing to talk about yet.

** Default Recall Animations**

For anyone that missed it yesterday Ququroon made a post yesterday (link below) that talks about how we'll be making it so champions who don't have a recall animation use one of their other ones when recalling so they're not just standing there awkwardly.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/IngzHFRs-adding-simple-recalls-to-older-champs?comment=00130000

158 Comments

ModAcademy KaynFeb 21, 201713 votes

I like these. Frequent and Topical. Keep it up.

http://i.imgur.com/Aws2q6D.gif

xScarfyFeb 21, 20177 votes

Will rek'sai get a completly new ult or are you just making changes to the current one. I can't really imagine something under “improve satisfaction“ x)

RiotMeddlerFeb 21, 201715 votes

What we've got in testing at least is almost a new ability.

xScarfyFeb 21, 20172 votes

Interesting, can't wait to see what you guys got for her!

HowPlayGAEMFeb 21, 201718 votes

[deleted]

RiotMeddlerFeb 21, 201731 votes

Completely agree. If we can't make that animation work on her ult for whatever reason we'll put it on her Homeguard run instead.

AMYS GRAVEFeb 21, 20173 votes

It would truly be the biggest nerf in league of legends history if it were removed.

OblivianosFeb 21, 20174 votes

graves and his cigar say hi

Ariel the CruelFeb 22, 20173 votes

Sivir's pink hair is calling. . .

Xenos von FaneliFeb 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

What we've got in testing at least is almost a new ability.

NOOO not my free map mobility

kaemaniFeb 22, 20171 votes

gonna be better engage tho

Xenos von FaneliFeb 22, 20172 votes

{quoted}

gonna be better engage tho

screw engage I need to split push

Void NargacugaFeb 21, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Mid-Season

Mid-season looks like it'll probably be patch 7.9 or 7.10 based on our current planning. We'll be doing a Vanguard update, some changes to defensive items and probably a couple of other things that aren't fair enough into testing to talk about yet.

I think you meant "far enough" instead of "fair enough" in the mid-season section.

RiotMeddlerFeb 21, 20176 votes

Whoops, thanks.

FloupiFeb 21, 20174 votes

[deleted]

TerraRisingFeb 21, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Squishy Support,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=g5KtHmpX,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-02-21T18:48:52.371+0000)

What does Riot think about ? He seems to be completely abandonned while also looking recent (and not in need of vgu)

I'm not Meddler, but Ghostcrawler did answer this in his tumblr blog.

Essentially, some champions with minions/turrets can't be balanced towards professional play as they'd overpower the lower levels (Plat and below). This goes for Heimer and Yorick, mostly. Ghostcrawler uses the Torbjorn example from Overwatch as the main explanation.

Of course, this doesn't really explain why Ivern, Malzahar AND Zyra can be balanced for professional playyet Heimer and Yorick can't.

My cynical guess would be that Riot really, really doesn't want to see a world where Yorick is firmly in the meta and Heimer is just an innocent victim in their fervor.

fpythonFeb 21, 20172 votes

I think it's a much more innocuous reason. Ivern and Annie's minions are part of their ults and so they are limited in strength by the not-insignificant choice of when and where to use them. Malzahar and Zyra's are to be used aggressively, as they are extremely flimsy, and in lower elo's the choice of how to use them creates a high enough skill barrier as to prevent them from being overbearing. If they get too strong, they can just have their damage tuned down or shifted around without hurting their viability across the board. Meanwhile, if Heimer were to be competitively strong, he would end up crushing lower elo's as his turrets are comparatively very simple to use in and his anti-siege would be extremely hard to beat. Yorick has a similar problem, in that his minions are simple, autonomous siegers, so in lower elos his splitpush would be unanswerable if his numbers were tuned to pro play.

xScarfyFeb 21, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Squishy Support,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=g5KtHmpX,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-02-21T18:48:52.371+0000)

What about 's completely passive and boring playstyle? She feels like her basic spells need some small work

This sounds like an opinion to me. I'm a Janna main and I have to completly disagree with you on the “boring“ part! Janna is a lot of fun for me: Unique mechanics like tower shielding, a ton of movementspeed to race around the rift and you can make quite some flashy plays with her ult. She might not have the most active playstyle, but she is definitly not boring! ;)

DzoiiFeb 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

This sounds like an opinion to me. I'm a Janna main and I have to completly disagree with you on the “boring“ part! Janna is a lot of fun for me: Unique mechanics like tower shielding, a ton of movementspeed to race around the rift and you can make quite some flashy plays with her ult. She might not have the most active playstyle, but she is definitly not boring! ;) Truee dude <3

MunchCrunchLunchFeb 21, 20174 votes

Meddler tank items already give less stats comparatively to damage items. in terms of gold and stats in general. and you said you will lower the stats they give which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

my second point is that what is going to happen to juggernauts? Darius was nerfed and now sitting at 49% winrate as a simple champion. meanwhile Fiora a much harder champion is sitting at 52% winrate. seems to be an unreasonable nerf? and how iwll the tank stats affect them?

MaeDoSanFeb 21, 20173 votes

Isn't the red side problem with 10 bans due to the fact that only a limited number of champs belong in S tier and lower tiers can't compare to them ?

NodirjonSattarovFeb 21, 20173 votes

so nothing about major problems in the game? whats the point of these quick thoughts? does it take too long to think about lethality, jayce, malzahar botlane, etc. ?

Tundra HunterFeb 21, 20173 votes

I am confused about why Warwick would need a nerf. I don't think he needs a buff, but everybody agrees that his ult hitbox is too small and his q feels clunky, which to me should be the 2 things to fix. Otherwise, he is not pick/ban in pro plays, and his winrate is pretty low at every elo (48% in bronze/silver/gold, 47% in plat, 45% in diamond, ~40% in master and challenger owing to op.gg). Since you guys said Warwick is supposed to be accessible, and that accessible champ should have higher winrate than skill-champs (such as Ryze), I simply don't get it: Warwick, despite being "accessible", has a winrate <50% at all elo, particularly low at higher elo, and his ult hitbox is too small and his q feels clunky. Could you explain why he would need a nerf? To me, he needs some fix on q and ult, and no buff/no nerf.

LaughingStaplerFeb 22, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tundra Hunter,realm=OCE,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=g5KtHmpX,comment-id=002b,timestamp=2017-02-21T23:03:55.952+0000)

I am confused about why Warwick would need a nerf. I don't think he needs a buff, but everybody agrees that his ult hitbox is too small and his q feels clunky, which to me should be the 2 things to fix. Otherwise, he is not pick/ban in pro plays, and his winrate is pretty low at every elo (48% in bronze/silver/gold, 47% in plat, 45% in diamond, ~40% in master and challenger owing to op.gg). Since you guys said Warwick is supposed to be accessible, and that accessible champ should have higher winrate than skill-champs (such as Ryze), I simply don't get it: Warwick, despite being "accessible", has a winrate <50% at all elo, particularly low at higher elo, and his ult hitbox is too small and his q feels clunky. Could you explain why he would need a nerf? To me, he needs some fix on q and ult, and no buff/no nerf.

I was actually told by IWDominate that WW isn't good in high ELO. He didn't really explain why though. I know C9 Meteos tried him quite a few games but without much success.

DCYOUNG888Feb 21, 20172 votes

I know this was already asked before but will the galio rework not arrive on pbe patch 7.5?

RiotMeddlerFeb 21, 20175 votes

Galio is not in patch 7.5, no.

IxtaliKingFeb 21, 20172 votes

Yeah, Galio is in patch 7.7 and the next hero is the patch after right? ;)

Lord CaelistisFeb 21, 20172 votes

Bro next patch is apparently Legendary Zyra skin, so let's say Galio for 7.6 at best, most likely 7.7

kinkanFeb 21, 20171 votes

can you take out the remains of the torrents when it gets destroyed like that i dont have to walk around it please

RiotMeddlerFeb 21, 201712 votes

We leave the turret remains on the map in part because we believe the lanes have more interesting gameplay when their are some obstructed points in them than when everything's open and passable.

Foreign FantasyFeb 21, 201717 votes

{quoted}

We leave the turret remains on the map in part because we believe the lanes have more interesting gameplay when their are some obstructed points in them than when everything's open and passable.

I agree, it seperates the good Sions from the GREAT Sions!

CaenenFeb 21, 20175 votes

walldrifting intensifies

RiotMeddlerFeb 21, 20179 votes

Man, haven't heard that one in a while.

And Sion's definitely a great example here.

Arkadije95Feb 21, 20171 votes

When is the PBE getting updated? Also is Shen going to get some changes in the Vanguard update? I honestly dont know the difference between a Tank and a Vanguard, but I am curious about Shen. And I am exited about the Aatrox changes coming to the PBE.

RiotMeddlerFeb 21, 20175 votes

Tomorrow for the PBE I believe (Monday was a public holiday here in the US, so some things are delayed a day).

Vanguards are tanks that focus more on initiating for their team than the average tank.

No planned changes for Shen in the Vanguard update, though probably some base stat adjustments at least as with other tanks.

Jeddy017Feb 21, 20172 votes

The pbe update is likely coming tomorrow. Yesterday was a holiday here in the US, which is why no maintenance was announced. I assume the maintenance will be today with new pbe cycle tomorrow & the next patch going live Thursday.
Vanguards are actually a subclass of Tanks. I suggest reading this blog from last year & this full list as well. Vanguards are offensive tanks who basically start the teamfights. Shen falls into the Warden sublcass of tanks, meaning that they're more defensive tanks who protect allies & lockdown enemies trying to kill their teammates. I don't know if they plan to include Wardens in the tank update. Even if they do, I don't know if Shen is being looked at.

EDIT: God damn it Meddler....., anyway, what Meddler said.

robotmasterFeb 21, 20171 votes

Plans for 10 bans coming to ranked draft or just tournament draft?

RiotMeddlerFeb 21, 20174 votes

10 bans in ranked at some point yes, though it'll be a somewhat different format (all bans up front for starters).

BônesFeb 21, 20171 votes

all bans up front

Terrible decision. 10 bans in any format would be but especially in that format. Sad day for one tricks. Guess I'll stop playing League since Yasuo will be permabanned.

WoonStruckFeb 21, 20173 votes

That just means significant changes to the champion are in order.

If someone is 100% banned, its pretty obvious they need changes.

TheRetenorMar 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

10 bans in ranked at some point yes, though it'll be a somewhat different format (all bans up front for starters).

Why don't you just consider giving the first 6 players a 1 minute ban phase simulataneously (bans being grayed out instantly), then the usual pick phase until pick #6, then another minute simultaneous ban phase and another pick phase. This would even cut down champion select time a bit.

ArashiMar 2, 20171 votes

This is the same thing as removing Yasuo from the game

NorthmundFeb 21, 20171 votes

Hello Meddler i am Aatrox player, huge fan of his lore and thematic.I am not playing league for a few weaks already (break from a Ranked tilt, till tank changes) And only thing that caught my attention was Aatrox changes.When will you add his rework on PBE? Any information right now will sate my hunger :D

1M Gold Udyr XDFeb 22, 20172 votes

And here I am, looking for buffs for Udyr. It has been one season and I feel the pain, and you aatrox mains have held for 3 seasons.

NorthmundFeb 22, 20171 votes

I was playing all this time :D Except few time in Ranked.Do not wanted get reported :P But in general yes never lost faith and here we are going to a bright future where Aatrox is viable. I hope your favorite champion will to get proper/fun/healthy changes :D Udyr was fun champion to me at season 3 and 4.

lvl100 ShuckleFeb 22, 20171 votes

May I ask what champions Riot specifically considers to be Vanguards? I'm not asking for a list of which ones will be getting updates (since that is obviously subject to change), but I can't for the life of me find anything through Google that tells me what champions are specifically classified as Vanguards.

Jeddy017Feb 22, 20173 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list

Class: Tank Subclass: Vanguard

Malphite Amumu Leona Zac Gragas Rammus Mega Gnar Sejuani ~~Rek’Sai~~ (being changed to a Diver) Sion Nautilus Skarner

XxRinkyDinkyxXFeb 22, 20171 votes

I personally dont think Skarner belongs there

Jeddy017Feb 22, 20172 votes

Are we talking before or after his next rework? After the Juggernaut diaster, Riot realize they goofed with pushing Skarner as a juggernaut & believe he be better fit as a tank. Though, they goofed with the whole Juggernaut rework & he'll likely need another rework.