Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 27

RiotMeddler·4/27/2018, 3:34:38 PM·1 votes·48,771 views

Hey all,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

8.10 and 8.11

8.11 is the patch that will have some marksmen item and base stat adjustments in it, along with some other stuff including some tweaks to early jungling. Those changes will be on the PBE during the 8.10 cycle (so starting next week) and we'll have some context posts about them up just before that.

8.10 also has some stuff in it too of course and wanted to talk about some of that:

  • Bounty changes (solo gold instead of team gold) will be in 8.10. After those are out, and the 8.11 changes have had some impact on how much teams look to marksmen to carry versus other positions we'll then consider rolling out further changes aimed at getting more solo carry potential back. Doing so over a series of patches rather than all at once to avoid swinging too hard and creating other problems (e.g. things like excessive early snowball).

  • Potentially some follow up balance work on mana items and/or mages, depending on exactly where the 8.9 changes land. If we need to add power to individual champs a common starting point's going to be adding more impact to abilities, rather than defaulting to giving them mana back (don't want to just reintroduce the issues we're trying to fix with these changes). Definitely possible mana is what will be appropriate in some cases where spell impact's already high as are mana needs though of course.

  • Some regular balance/game health work, including Kha'Zix (R evolution gameplay needs work), Sion (low interaction waveclear), Sterak's (making it more relevant to more champs by reducing or removing Triforce synergy and providing other power).


8.9 and Baron/Herald

We've been testing changes to Baron and Rift Herald's stats for a while and those are going out in 8.9. Figured it was worth mentioning even this late in the 8.9 cycle since that doesn't seem to have got that much attention.

Baron:

  • Whether or not your team can take an early Baron is currently too dependent on whether not you've got a strong tank who's in a good spot around 20 mins. That can lead to games that are effectively over dragging out until the winning team feel safe taking Baron and puts more pressure on team comps to include tanks.
  • We're distributing damage more evenly across teams during the Baron fight as a result. Base damage at 20 mins is down to 285 from 400 for example, AOE damage however is up (to 120+0.3 AD per second, from 60+0.1)
  • We're also seeing Baron get taken too quickly, which doesn't give opponents enough time to contest and force a fight. That takes away a window for comebacks and can make a brief period of Baron control too influential in deciding that game's outcome.
  • We're adding more base health to Baron as a result (9000, from 6400).

Rift Herald:

  • Rift Herald's not always delivering on its intended purpose at present. It's frequently better to just take a tower direct and not consider Rift Herald. It's also not serving to help games that are functionally over resolve quicker.
  • As a result we're reducing the damage it takes when hitting towers (150 less) and increasing damage it deals to towers (was 25% of own health +150, now the greater of 40% of its current health and 1500).
  • To avoid it being too impactful on even games, and better reward intended counterplay, we're also increasing the damage the summoned Rift Herald takes when you hit it in eye (was 20% max hp, now 40%). Quick response will shut it down quicker than before, if unchecked it'll more consistently take at least one tower.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

253 Comments

Sun Wu Ryuumoku4/27/2018, 3:40:02 PM16 votes

What's the plan for item 3814 ?

What's your thought on item 3147 since the last nerf/adjustement ?

And globaly what do u think about lethality ?

ARE YOU PC BRO4/27/2018, 4:53:55 PM11 votes

When KARMA gets her re-work make sure to hire her old V.A. Danielle Mcrae! She's still so passionate, her twitter is full of Love for Karma as well
https://twitter.com/DanielleMcVO/status/989775150106132480

BadPiriPiri4/27/2018, 4:56:38 PM11 votes

Any plans for Ashe ?

I would like that item 3042 was an ad scaling item just like item 3040, do you have any plans on making it more viable on more champion (the only one who use it is Ezreal )?

Tormentula4/27/2018, 3:47:15 PM9 votes

Anything for Elise ?

She honestly doesn't feel too great right now, she can't even kill mini krugs with her AoE spell if she takes percision for faster clears. Her human Q feels very weak and right now she feels outpreformed as a jungler, seeing that you guys want to nerf early game clears, Elise is super reliant on that early and falls off mid game, any potential changes that might help her out this mid season? I don't know what runic echoes changes would help her more then it does now unless it gives CDR or pen, but nerfing early game junglers when her clear was already nerfed from worlds doesn't sound too good for her in theory.

Coronet4/27/2018, 3:54:28 PM6 votes

Hello, I've been bringing this topic up for several weeks now, so here it goes.

I want to talk about Malzahar Malzahar.

After his most recent nerfs, his W has become much more important part of his kit (as other parts of his kit get weaker, the other ones become relatively stronger), to the point that he is entirely reliant on this ability.

He can't waveclear without it, he cannot do damage to people without it.

Could we perhaps hear some thoughts about whether this situation is alright for you at the moment?

Me and virtually any Malz mains from Malz subreddit agree that W is his least reliable, interesting, fun and skillful ability, while being also his most important. We don't play him for his voidlings, we play him for his sustain damage, CC and AoE ability and most importantly for his dark mage thematic.

It feels really bad using his R, E and Q and doing subpar damage, because you don't have voidlings out.

Could we redistribute the damage from his W into the rest of his kit so the champ himself has more punch and feels better to play, instead of being a CC bot for his own voidlings?

Thanks!

ΚAΤΑΘΛΙΨH4/28/2018, 12:38:46 AM5 votes

Hi Meddler,

What is your opinion about Riven? She can not start anymore with CDR, so abilities has more cooldown than before, is it good for her?

Zoli Ben4/27/2018, 3:42:52 PM5 votes

Anything on Urgot? Repertoir was thinking of QoL changes last time I heard.

CyberBalt4/27/2018, 3:53:19 PM5 votes

Do you think Liandry's has any room for buffs at all? It seems a fair bit weaker than the old one. 1% max health vs 2% current health is approximately equal, but the other passive is not worth losing the 15 Mpen IMO. Would you consider increasing the maximum bonus damage from damaging abilities, or maybe a larger max health shred? Or does it not look like it needs buffs?

1moretime4/29/2018, 10:24:50 PM4 votes

Garen is going to die if you nerf steraks gage or trinity force, the current buff suggestion for 10 mr and shield cap increase is very petty. If you nerf those items with that petty buff a lot of garen mains including me are gonna abandon him.

Radiant Seraph4/27/2018, 3:44:16 PM4 votes

Will we get a detailed post about 8.11 ADC changes?

Solari Fortune4/27/2018, 3:46:38 PM4 votes

Any other Leona buffs coming possibly or you guys happy with just 20 damage back into her W?

Also which role/lane would you say has the most diversity issues?

fabfan4/27/2018, 3:56:33 PM4 votes

Hi @Meddler, you made another change on Garen’s W but I hope this is not the end of Garen's change because it will not fix anything.

Will you try to do something like this:

-Give a in combat sustain to Garen on this E (like Darius/Illaoi Q)

-Buff the damage of Judgment (base damage/ratio/add %damage on HP)

-Maybe give him CC immunity on Courage for the first 0.5 seconds only

-Change/Remove the villain mechanic just because nobody likes it (Garen's player and Garen’s opponent)

In my opinion you should try this, the PBE is made for test new stuff (and for bug fix too), you have nothing to lose to do that.

It’s the only thing me and all Garen mains ask you, make a significantly buff for Garen to make him viable in high elo once and for all.

This PBE cycle is certainly our last hopes so please, don’t ignore the Might of Demacia.

Big Lincoln4/27/2018, 4:27:30 PM4 votes

What's going on with Garen? I hope it's not just gonna be flat buffs. There's so much more you could do with him to put him in a lasting good spot

WhiteAcres4/27/2018, 4:58:39 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler,

Are the recent changes for Poppy that were on the PBE going to be shipping in 8.9? Do you happen to have any insight as to what sort of impact those changes were having on her early, mid, and late game based on internal testing?

DrLuau4/27/2018, 6:04:21 PM4 votes

Since you've already changed the Garen W buff, and also seem to want to remove the Trigage synergy, can you maybe look into giving Garen some extra power since he will be hard hit by any change to the Sterak's + Triforce interaction?

Rayjay Redfang4/27/2018, 3:44:57 PM3 votes

What do you mean by sion's low interactive waveclear and does it mean that his waveclear will get a nerf?

Spideraxe4/27/2018, 3:42:08 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler can I ask which champs you guys are looking into next cycle and how you feel about Irelia after her last round of changes

ZaNJeTsU4/27/2018, 4:01:24 PM3 votes

Hey Medller,

Any thoughts about these keystones: 1- Conqueror 2- phase rush 3- Grasp of the undying

meteorbreaker4/27/2018, 4:25:52 PM3 votes

Hello Meddler! Are there any specific ideas for Zyra? Her flowers still have too many bugs (lack of its Al and instant death from aur spells (W mumu,), single-target spells of all kinds (E Cassio, Q Annie, etc.) Maybe you should pay attention to it yourself? Maybe it be necessary to transfer its power from the flowers to it?A little increase in sustain, for example, and scaling by AP ratio, to reduce all these delays in casting spells. Now many Zyra’s mains are turning to you, so please turn to all our proposals.

Thank you for your attention;)

Elegant Egoistic4/27/2018, 7:08:06 PM2 votes

hey Meddler ! any future plan for karma ? are you considering her for an Aatrox scale update ?!

Illâoi Evê Siôn4/27/2018, 7:32:54 PM2 votes

You'll be making a lot of changes with very little review time, followed by (what I assume will be) immediate adjustments on the first or second patch afterwards alongside additional changes (8.9: Mage changes, 8.10: Mage adjustments + solo gold changes, 8.11: further Mage adjustments + universal adjustments because of solo gold changes + Marksmen changes, 8.12: lots and lots of adjustments + whatever else you have planned). This seems pretty chaotic.

When the dust settles in 8.13, can you please take some time to reflect on all of this to spot any possible mistakes and avoid long-term problems?

SeeKerŻ4/27/2018, 3:46:16 PM2 votes

When is the mid-season patch ? Around 8.12 ?

Vedius4/27/2018, 5:00:05 PM2 votes

Hey Meddler, I know it’s been a bit of a talk lately but what are your thoughts on AP mid rakan. Is he out of line when played in other roles? If you were to nerf him a lot of us rakan players would rather just a revert on the ap ratios. We don’t want him worse off them when he was buffed.

PopCorn Chick3n4/27/2018, 6:04:28 PM2 votes

Hi Meddler, I have a question. What do you think of Zyra's current Q shape right now compared to the old circular shape?

  • The rectangular shape was introduced to synergy with Zyra's current passive and its primary job was to "summon plants"? Yet you nerfed/changed its AI so many times that it required Zyra to land her abilities for the plants to priority the enemy champs. Other than that, it doesn't go well with any other part of her kits. I'm a little confused because the new Q shape primary job is to just summon more plants out but awkward to use/harder to land but plants won't priority champs if you don't land it. Since plants are so weak right now.

My question: why are you still keeping Zyra's current Q shape when the old Q can basically do the same thing with an outer layer of what the current Q has but easier to use and more synergy to her kit? Thank you for reading.

Sir Nope4/27/2018, 3:47:52 PM1 votes

Morning meddler.

Regarding the mana changes, this was designed to circumvent mages farming without risk of going mana-starved, correct? Yet these changes also affect single-target abilities as well. What convinced you and the dev team that this was an acceptable and/or malleable tradeoff?