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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 6

RiotMeddler··1 votes·44,377 views

Morning all,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Azir

We've been talking about a small ish Azir update for a long time. We think he's a really cool champ, but he's been very hard to keep balanced due to a lack of sufficient weaknesses in his kit. We've recently started exploring possible approaches in game on him, with best guess being an update around the scale of Rek'Sai's recent one. That'll likely involve reducing his mobility, range or burst and then adding power in somewhere else. It'll also likely be at least a few months off, so possible other small updates come out first. Mentioning it nonetheless since it's one we've talked about in the past as needed but haven't been able to offer anything more concrete previously than 'someday'


Tournament Draft available in custom games

For anyone interested we recently (last week I think?) made it so you can select the LCS style pick/ban in custom games. Thinking there was that that would be useful for people wanting to run their own tournaments using it, teams who want to scrim using it etc. Mentioning it here since while it's already out we didn't say much about it at the time so I figure there are probably a few people who'd like to know about it and missed it.


7.11 followup

Looking at the 7.11 changes now that they've been out for nearly a week there are a few things we'll probably followup on in 7.12. These are guaranteed changes yet, since we're still watching how players adapt

Kindred - Are probably too weak. We're testing buffs to base AD (54 -> 57), Q ratio (0.65 -> 0.75), W wolf speed (1200 -> 1400), a slightly increased W duration and a cheaper cost on E (70 -> 50).

Rek'Sai - Also looking weak. Testing base AD buff (55.6 -> 57.5), Armor per level (3.4 -> 3.75), unborrow AD ratio (0.4 -> 0.8), R reliability improvements (should be much harder to avoid the damage).

Malz - Directionally is looking better (healthier playstyle). Not certain, but suspect he may now be too strong in solo lanes. Talking today about whether to do anything for 7.12 or wait and consider again for 7.13. Would involve trimming a bit of power (probably added a bit too much, so toning that back a bit).


Rakan bugfix

We've been testing a reduced CD on Rakan's E based off the belief that he's underperforming a bit at present. We noticed a bug with his passive this week however where it wasn't getting benefit from Healing/Shielding increasing effects. We're removing the E buff, at least for now, until we've seen what impact that bugfix, since we weren't looking to add a major amount of power to Rakan.


More new runes

We'll probably talk about a few more new runes early next week. Let us know if there are particular sorts of effects you're interested in hearing about. Can't make any promises those will necessarily be the ones far enough along to talk about, will see what we can do though.

219 Comments

Last avatarname11 votes

You used are for kindred because they are not alone... Well played

Deep Terror Nami20 votes

Never one...

RiotMeddler36 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=cah9GQvp,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-06-06T18:15:19.130+0000)

Never one...

Without the other.

GaKgAkGaK7 votes

I wish I could say that about my love life...

Ralanr2 votes

Trust me, sometimes you'll want alone time.

DorkunedAuras2 votes

Without that weird lamb thing over there

zaphod4249 votes

Hey meddler,

First I'd like to thank you for doing these, it's great to keep us informed with what's going onat riot, and that you seem to actually read most comments and reply to many, and it's great that you really take feedback here.

Nothing new on LB, I've posted about her a lot lol, but as you can probably tell, she is my favourite champion, and I'm not really happy with the rework. But is there a timescale for when you'd expect to have more solid details for the upcoming work?

Thanks, zaphod.

My Heartshaker7 votes

Meddler, could you take a look at the Ahri and Rakan charm bugs? People have been reporting that enemies aren't properly charmed, and it's a really, really annoying bug that could be the difference between winning and losing games.

Spideraxe6 votes

Hey Meddler can I potentially ask you about Viktor since you guys mentioned you look at him after the Rylais nerf and he seems to be on the weaker end of the spectrum

Saphirex1 votes

Does even need buffs? Or just a higher playrate? Today he has been constantly played by SSG Crown (Who probably one of the best Viktor in Worlds) and he did fine with it at a certain point. He reached 26,2k DMG in Game 2 and was the leader of highest Damage done that game. He went overall 14/4/9. Also to mention he went 9/1/7 in 1 game.

Spideraxe1 votes

His stats in soloq are among the lowest, while winrate isn't everything the only people lower then him are Ryze and Azir

Saphirex1 votes

Just reading these stats is useless.
Most players will just play what is the best and strongest champion to gain free elo. Specially how SoloQ is more about how you tilt your enemy and not how good you're with a certain champion. I would see Riot rather trying to ask several famous players regarding Viktor and how they feel about it instead of just buffing him to a state where he become the meta again in 2015 and easily oneshot champions without any counterplay.

Spideraxe2 votes

Most would echo what I say, it's unanimous amongst the Viktor community that he is weak. People would only bring him out as either a pocket pick or they just like playing him. He is incredibly clunky after several delays added to him

JustCallMeSPED6 votes

Meddler,

Read the Azir: Origins post went up on the Nexus, and the sand mage idea seems incredibly cool! Now that League has had some time to grow and more VFX are possible, any chance of revisiting the idea with another champion? I imagine all of the Gaara (from Naruto) fans would love a champion that plays on the sand-control fantasy.

RiotMeddler4 votes

Possible at some point, though can't make any promises. I doubt we'll revisit the specific concept of covering large chunks of the map in sand though, that also just consumed such enormous amounts of visual real estate it was hard to see other things going on.

Kobold1 votes

wait so you will make Seth out of Azir?

RiotMeddler6 votes

No, Azir's got his own distinct identity and theme. We're not going to replace that with a different sand mage.

It's possible, though far from guaranteed, that we explore another character who manipulates sand though someday.

IxtaliKing5 votes

Any thoughts on Karma? She has nerfs on pbe and still no official word on why.

Comrad Black5 votes

Kind of disappointed there isn't some news on tanks, given that the role as a whole has been under-performing for a while (save for about 3-5 notable exceptions). I thought one of the main points of midseason was that the itemization changes would let you guys be more proactive with tank balance moving forward.

Veraska5 votes

I've been saying to remove azirs mobility for a long time, it clashes with his theme of a backline commander (why does he want to dive in?) It removes his primary weakness (should be vulnerable once up close, given he can harass and poke for almost free) and it's what makes his performance in normal v competitive so drastic

Change his E that's imo the best move for azir in relation to the game as a whole

Jaycen bOrnn4 votes

Hey Meddler,

Before your trip, you had mentioned that there have been discussions about changes to LB that were larger then just balance adjustments.

Do you have a timeframe in mind for those changes?

Cheers

Monotachi1 votes

Changes atleast to address this Gunblade build we are seeing on LB.

My Heartshaker3 votes

Gunblade isn't the problem here. Leblanc is. When you nerf LeBlanc so hard and she has to rely on the Gunblade proc as part of her main combo/burst - that's when you know you've got a problem on your hands. It's a symptom of the problem, just like tabis was a symptom of AD-heavy comps.

FirstBlooderPT4 votes

Hey there Meddler ! I got 3 simple questions !

  • Can we expect the Diver's update this year ?
  • Is there going to be a teaser for the new champion today, or next week ?
  • Will you guys release a new Darkin champion, or a new void one this year ?

I'll be happy with just simple answers based on "Yes or No"

Keep up the good work you're all been doing man ! It's great to see finaly so many benefitial features and good things coming all of a sudden.

Winterkill4 votes

We are still waiting for you to communicate about other champions that are not Ryze, Azir, LB, and others. We know you are working on LB and Azir. We know the length of time it is going to take to work on them since you admiration towards popular and new champions is more important is quite clear. Please do a better job at communicating with mains about EVERYONE'S champion.

The past year Developers at Riot Games have talked about Ryze more than 30 times, and that is on the lower spectrum of what you probably do within a year. Yu have talked about Karma around 5 times and it has all been about her splash art update. You have talked about Morde less than 15 times in the past year. Hypothetically if we add 30 times you have talked about Ryze the past four years, you have talked about Ryze close to 120 times the past four years. You have talked about Karma less than 20 times in the past 4 years.

Please do a better job. You keep telling us you care about all of your champions but the realization is for the past four years you have blatantly ignored all feedback about the majority of the champions, you cater to new champions and working on their kits, and you somehow find time to aways talk about Ryze and give him a rework every year.

Do better. Feel free to read the thread and comment, but we don't expect it at this point.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ugRJTtTn-riot-needs-to-communicate-more-with-champion-mains-when-it-comes-to-big-reworks-nerfs-or-buffs?comment=0038

Martian Spartan4 votes

0.12 move speed seals would be fantastic tbh :)

TNing of Pine3 votes

Have you considered a price reduction for Rune Pages in light of the upcoming changes? Right now it would make no sense to buy new ones - at least until we know what compensation will be available when they become obsolete - but if you're like me and only have two, not being able to edit them in champ select can make it impossible to have the right runes available for the champ you end up playing if you get an autofilled role.

Not having the runes themselves isn't such a big deal because you can get Tier 2s for virtually nothing, but there's no workaround that I know of for not having enough pages to put them on.

RiotMeddler10 votes

We've been talking a lot about different approaches to runes, IP etc. That's a subject we can't talk details on though until we've figured out what we think makes sense. Definitely feel you on the awkwardness of this intermediate period, and will share details as soon as we've got em.

TNing of Pine3 votes

I appreciate the answer and I understand the difficulty of talking about things that aren't finalized yet. I'd just ask that you consider the possibility of doing something about the short-term pain, even if the ultimate solution isn't finalized yet - similar to the approach that led to making Tier 2s 1IP even though you weren't ready to announce the long term plan at that point.

Presumably there wouldn't be much revenue impact from a price reduction because I can't imagine many people are actually buying rune pages at full price right now - and if they are, it's probably only because they aren't aware of the upcoming changes.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku3 votes

What's the plan for lethality (runes & items) ?

Evelyn Endwise3 votes

Meddler, what do you think of the criticism towards Kindred's E that's been floating around post-rework. (ie. It has a slow and an execute, which is kinda weird, since you wanna use the slow at the start of the gank, but the execute means you should save it till the end). Feels kinda weird to use lol.

Venedictos2 votes

It creates some interesting decisionmaking(TM) like that. Right?

Evelyn Endwise2 votes

That would be my assumption too ya. Feels awkward regardless though. But I guess Kindred doesn't rely on CC that much considering her many Q dashes.

ProvidenceNox3 votes

To me the problem with Rek'Sai currently seems to be that she gets blown up if she builds damage, especially since her combo requires 3 autoattacks. If she is going to be a diver/bruiser like champion she needs more survivability so that she can live to be a damage threat in teamfights. Also, have you considered raising her Attack speed per level? She was originally designed with her AS steroid on her ult, but now that it's completely gone with no compensation. Extra attack speed would help with clears and help get her combo off faster.

Mreti3 votes

Meddler ,after the mana reduction changes in Udyr you mentioned that you would look further on udyr after seeing how he performs. This change really didn't affect anything and us Udyrmains would like to know if you have something else planned for him.

The Lone Udyr2 votes

It helped his mana conservation a bit, now that you can attack 3 time for a trigger on all spells you should be keeping that in mind.

I agree though, where I feel he is weak is his movespeed is a tad outdated, and increasing the ranking he gets for movespeed on his bearstance(probably shouldn't increase it on his passive-would be to abuse-able) a tad would help him better stand against all the newer intense mobile champs.

This will help give us the option to make better use out of prioritizing bear stance 2nd against a team of mobile (or capitalize against immobile) champions in the early mid game

Slyx the Rat2 votes

Hey Meddler ,

Im rly frustrated about Twitchs current spot. Its about that his lategame seems too strong and his early to midgame phase feels not cool either. Any plans about shifting that in the right direction? Maybe buffing early and nerfing his lategame as compensation? I also looking forward for a modern kit gameplay update in the future for Twitch? Really frustrating he is getting banned and picked so often recently sometimes only with abusing intention by players!

I would support and follow up such things with interest!

Twitch

Leyrann2 votes

Twitch is a hypercarry, he's supposed to be absolutely insane lategame at the cost of early/midgame. If you don't like that playstyle, you're probably better off moving to someone like Draven or Lucian, who have more of an early game focus.

xScarfy2 votes

{quoted}

Azir It'll also likely be at least a few months off, so possible other small updates come out first.

Which other champions are currently worked on or considered for small updates?

Cosmic Warper2 votes

Which direction do you think is the healthiest for azir at the moment? The battle mage playstyle or the play making long range playstyle? In my opinion I like the battle mage playstyle more out of azir. He doesn't need mobility and instead should have better peel tools/ more consistent sticking onto a target to fulfill that identity. His E doesn't really fit his theme as an emperor who commands soldiers from the backline. If he gets a new E and lower poke that pushes his playstyle to sustained battle mage then i think he will be more balancable.

Sure everyone loves the shurima shuffle, but i think that whole paradigm presents large balance problems for azir and it should not exist on his kit.

AcroFlipper2 votes

What are you thinking about Perxie? She's an exact (without the true sight) copy of Lulu's E and I dont think its a great idea to give almost an entire champions ability at everyone's disposal

Nyakowaa OwO2 votes

Kindred rework is unnecessary, i was playing them because of current health% on autos and relying on attack speed. Now it's a weak adc in forest. I think that vayne is better jungler now than kindred.

Serpentine Grace1 votes

What are the current thoughts on Zac? He's dominating the jungle in many games and is also banned almost every game I'm in. Is he not thought to be too strong atm?

RiotMeddler4 votes

Looking at him, damage nerfs to W and E possible in 7.12, though still confirming that.

SoulessAlyssa1 votes

meddler do you think you can help fill me in with the runes and such? I'm kind of confused on how you guys explain it. what I got is the different paths but how do you get the mega runes and such like that? do you need to buy them or earn them from games?

RiotMeddler7 votes

Every player will have access to all the runes. We'll be limiting your ability to customize them at really early levels while players are still learning the basics of the game, no planned restrictions other than that though. A level 5 player might pick from preset pages for example, rather than customizing each rune individually. They'll still have the power of a full set of runes, but won't be exposed to the complexity of the system until they've played a bit more LoL and have a better handle on what stuff does. Full customization would then open up at a higher level (still figuring out exactly when, pretty early on though).

Quality Content1 votes

Is Death's Dance going to be addressed soon? It's making Draven incredibly difficult to deal with and feels like it has too much overlap with BT. There isn't a clear distinction as to why you would get one over the other.

Fenikkuro2 votes

Executioner's calling.

4GLTE1 votes

You did a terrible job on Azir. It's been exactly a year now and you promised the rework was happening in less than a year. He is the new Urgot basically.

The Lone Udyr2 votes

I hate it when people say "new ugot" so broadly to talk about a unpopular champion. Urgot had way more wrong with him then being weak or unpopular.

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