Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14

RiotMeddler·6/14/2018, 3:20:35 PM·1 votes·72,055 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


8.12 Fighter items

We came to the conclusion at the start of this week that we should pull the fighter item changes out of patch 8.12, despite the patch being about to go out and a lot of work/testing having been done on those items. Our belief is that they're good designs, but that the timing's wrong for them, both in terms of current power of fighters and amount of change we've put into the game recently. Hoping to still do them at some point, with pre-season being the most likely option.

Our apologies to those of you who were looking forward to those, would expect their removal to be pretty frustrating for some players, especially if you play fighters who aren't among the stronger ones right now, or who don't have a broad enough range of itemization. Building up expectations around content like this going out, only for it to then be pulled away, is something we try pretty hard to avoid. In this case, despite the pain that creates, we felt we needed to pull them out though.


Crit ADCs

We're working on buffing the performance of some ADCs in 8.13. That'll be focused on those who need some help like Trist, Vayne or Jinx. We want to get a range of crit ADCs back to being reasonable choices, at least in regular play, quickly - we have no desire to leave that group of champs without a home anywhere on SR. We also want to try and maintain some of the new diversity we're seeing sometimes in bot lane too though, so are trying not to swing so hard we go back to only seeing marksmen.

In terms of what's getting played at present, it's not yet clear what optimal is. We're seeing a range of different things tried in pro play for example, with a wide range of success and failure. Also seeing a lot of player discussion around non marksmen dominating bot, though in most MMRs/regions play rates of non marksmen are extremely low still (some exceptions).

In terms of how we'll be buffing the thing we're planning to target first is the performance of those struggling champs in the 1 to 2 item spike range. Looks like we pulled the crit users back too far in that period, leaving them too dependent on getting to 3+ items to contribute. Given their multiplicative power late game we do believe champs using those builds should be weaker mid game, but not to the extent they are right now. That also ties in with lane diversity, which we think is driven significantly by really early game power, so buffing mid game should be compatible with both putting crit ADCs in a better spot and keeping some increased lane diversity for those who want it.


Gold Funneling

We'll be nerfing gold funneling strategies in 8.13. Gold Funneling, for anyone unfamiliar with the term, is where you give one champion much of the gold/XP from multiple positions. Taric Mid/Yi jungle with Yi getting really farmed, or Karthus mid/Nunu counter jungling, with Karthus taking most of the allied jungle, being current examples.

The gold funneling we're seeing now results in what's usually a pretty interactive, interesting, and often playmaking lane (mid) becoming very passive, with one laner just doing their best to interact with the other player as little as possible and getting rewarded for that. In cases where the mid laner isn't CSing that problems exacerbated further, since CSing does at least create small windows of vulnerability, earlier in the game especially. While there's likely some counterplay to gold funneling that hasn't emerged yet, we're doubtful it's going to be around as easy to execute as gold funneling itself is or particularly fun/interesting in its own right. We held off on changes to gold funneling initially when it wasn't clear if it was a pretty niche thing that would bring some variety occasionally and be worth a bit of game health cost, or something that would become more dominant and need to be addressed even if it offered strategic variety. Pretty clear at this point it's the later.

In terms of how we'll address it we're still testing exact tactics. Possible changes include returning the overlevelled XP penalty on jungle camps that got removed in 8.10, individual adjustments to champs like Yi (lane minion damage on Q for example), jungle items giving XP penalties for lane minions to offset the increased XP from jungle monsters etc. Should have more details soon.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

321 Comments

ΚAΤΑΘΛΙΨH6/14/2018, 8:15:28 PM35 votes

Hi Meddler,

How Riven is feeling now without starting CDR?

zecastar6/14/2018, 4:17:17 PM29 votes

{quoted}

Hi folks,


Gold Funneling

We'll be nerfing gold funneling strategies in 8.13. Gold Funneling, for anyone unfamiliar with the term, is where you give one champion much of the gold/XP from multiple positions. Taric Mid/Yi jungle with Yi getting really farmed, or Karthus mid/Nunu counter jungling, with Karthus taking most of the allied jungle, being current examples.

The gold funneling we're seeing now results in what's usually a pretty interactive, interesting, and often playmaking lane (mid) becoming very passive, with one laner just doing their best to interact with the other player as little as possible and getting rewarded for that. In cases where the mid laner isn't CSing that problems exacerbated further, since CSing does at least create small windows of vulnerability, earlier in the game especially. While there's likely some counterplay to gold funneling that hasn't emerged yet, we're doubtful it's going to be around as easy to execute as gold funneling itself is or particularly fun/interesting in its own right. We held off on changes to gold funneling initially when it wasn't clear if it was a pretty niche thing that would bring some variety occasionally and be worth a bit of game health cost, or something that would become more dominant and need to be addressed even if it offered strategic variety. Pretty clear at this point it's the later.

In terms of how we'll address it we're still testing exact tactics. Possible changes include returning the overlevelled XP penalty on jungle camps that got removed in 8.10, individual adjustments to champs like Yi (lane minion damage on Q for example), jungle items giving XP penalties for lane minions to offset the increased XP from jungle monsters etc. Should have more details soon.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

On Gold funneling, just please don't nerf JG more than it already is. The most interesting part of JG was often getting a fast level 3 and invading or ganking. That's already been reduced. It takes me 15 minutes to reach level 10 and frequently 8 to hit level 6. I also don't think there should be an outlevelling farming penalty for camps or lane. This kind of stuff really screws the meta and champs. Sometimes you want to split push as jg or to push with your laner to get a safe back. There are so many things you can mess up with that.

What you're seeing is partly a result of JG being nerfed so hard early and thus having less influence in lanes to offset such funneling strategies. Secondly, support items are cheap and strong still. Third, many waveclear champions got nerfed so they struggle even more vs these champions. Mana regen also got nerfed. Don't mess with JG XP or Gold again please. Do you even realize how absurd this gets for jgs? The role feels TERRIBLE when you can't rely on ANYTHING and Riot treats it like an endless beta test. Every season, JG is changed, now mid season we have huge nerfs and many jg routes no longer beinv viable... can't even hit level 3 fast, all randomized again, more RNG added for literally no reason (scuttler spawn should always be known and everyone hates this aspect) etc. It feels like you guys just want to make us suffer at this point lol. Why does JG have to do so much more work to remain relevant every patch? If I main mid lane or top, I don't have to relearn the whole game every few months. Yeah, some items change, but not fundamentals. It's getting ridiculous at this point. It's disrespectful towards people's effort and time. Moreover, it was preventable if you guys grasped the consequences of your own changes better or didn't treat this like an alpha game during a RANKED season. So many changes have been at best neutral and created massive disruption. JG wasn't even OP previously. Lanes were just bad. In competitive, JG was basically a support role.

I can't rely on anything you guys do and that's made me essentially give up on taking this game seriously and putting real effort in it. Items, strategies, clear optimizations, EVERYTHING is just in an endless loop of change and often unmotivated and unasked for change too (besides minorities on Reddit and Boards). Nothing can be relied on. There is no foundation. It's like if I play chess and the pieces get different moves half way in the game or the board changes. It's just a waste of time investing in something like that. Games that have longevity and are worth learning, are STABLE. You can trust that you'll have the same rules in 5 years as in the next 5 minutes and your effort in getting coaching, understanding, reading books etc. isn't a total waste. It's no coincidence that this game was taken most seriously and was most respected in the S4 era when things were moving much slower. Remember Reign of Gaming and the detailed analysis posts on items, XP, itemization etc.? Where is that now? People basically gave up because their time investment was disrespected and they can't trust this game to be what they enjoyed or worked on in another few months.

Rikü6/14/2018, 3:32:08 PM22 votes

Hi meddler, can you or anybody from the balance team check out the subreddit /r/Rivenmains? We would really like to discuss with you about Riven's current state.

Brandoro6/14/2018, 7:08:20 PM22 votes

i don't know if this may be too late to ask some questions, but since this update is partly about fighters and their disappointment, i would like to just ask about your view on Riven atm? Riven is a very interesting case, because she can be played as an assasin or bruiser. So balancing her might be tough, but since I main Riven (at around 800k and plat+ and played A LOT ranked games this season and also played riven before this Season) im confindet to say that she wasn't adressed as much as other toplane champions. I really think her base stats or maybe passive needs to be looked at, because currently she gets outshined by camille,fiora or irelia in terms of teamfight contribution, survivability and also dmg, because they all have some kind of tank-shred gimmick to their kit plus self heal/sustain in lane in their kit. Just some general thoughts/ideas or maybe even future work are greatly appreciated!

Øne Abøve all6/14/2018, 5:11:17 PM19 votes

Hi Meddler,

So far, the current toplaners are pretty much bruisers only and have alot of damage output due to the %HP damage and truedamage on some of them. You guys are probably aware of some more broken champions like Irelia (200 range on an AA? cmon) etc. Do you guys also look at the more forgotten ones such as Riven? Aatrox is now a copy of her with more range on the abilities and will even do more damage than her do to the kit.

Can we expect any Riven changes in the near future?

Why? : You guys nerfed her CD's because of the early 10% CDR from the runes. now you only get them at lvl 10 if you take the rune. Her health regen is the lowest of all fighters/bruisers/skirmishers in the whole game and thats because Riot nerfed it due to Riven players building Tiamat early on the game.

Currently, You get a warhammer first, a kindlegem 2nd. and then boots most of the time to not die in lane or Phage for more health and the movementspeed. If everything goes well, you end up with 30% CDR at about 15min into the game without having your Cleaver even completed.

The Riven mains subreddit also asks what you guys will do about this as Riven is the only champion that has no sustain in her kit and is less rewarded for the complex animation cancels than an Irelia which doesnt cancel anything but still all ins you whenever she wants to.

As a Champion who has to put autoattacks inbetween her spells in order to put out the most of her damage, she should be getting rewarded more for that rather than just doing equal trades and then get outsustained by the enemy due to their kit.

From what we, the Riven mains subreddit see is, that she is pretty much useless in the laning phase and will make the team lose in a 4v5 if she gets behind the slightest bit due to the current state of the game where a champion like Riven has no way of coming back after she lost the laning phase.

It would be really nice if you guys could maybe reach out to the likes of Viper, Adrian, Dekar and BoxBox and maybe other players which arent OTP's such as Huni, Lourlo, Ssumday to ask how you could manage to bring her back into the game without overbuffing her.

Currently 48.96% Winrate according to OP.gg which isnt bad but i hope you guys get what i mean.

Blade oƒ Runes6/14/2018, 9:26:44 PM18 votes

How do you feel about Riven, 0% CDR start feelsbad and many of us would like you guys to revert the lvl 1 R nerf which was because Riven started with 10/15% cdr but now its 130 seconds lvl 1 which is higher than most carry toplaners

MayDuke6/14/2018, 3:24:51 PM18 votes

What are your thoughts on Orianna? She got nerfed last patch while she already wasn't in the best spot and it feels really bad to be kicked while you're already down.

Salty Riven Main6/14/2018, 11:31:47 PM16 votes

Can Riven please get some love? I'm currently doing well with her climbing back up to plat but she feels so awful when every other champ has much better lane sustain than her. Could you share your thoughts on what you could potential do for Riven? Some examples would be that we got ULT CD nerfs from CDR runes that were never reverted after runes reforged happened which have been very annoying to deal with. Also would you consider reverting the "bug fix" that gave Riven super smooth Q's? I don't see with how many auto resets other champs get (camille, jax, irelia) why Riven has to deal with getting carpel tunnel for 20% more attack speed with the fast Q combo and still have to deal with laggy, clunky q animations.

Thanks for reading, Salty Riven Main <3

Fisher No Chains6/14/2018, 3:33:40 PM13 votes

Anything about Syndra? She’s still not in the best state after mana regen nerfs.

xCrunchy6/14/2018, 3:33:09 PM13 votes

Are some work maybe on Syndra Syndra planned? she still seems in a weak spot. Her pick/winrate is really low atm.

ZelosRiven6/14/2018, 4:27:24 PM12 votes

Any thoughts on Riven ? She is in a bad spot since new runes cause she can,t take 10% CDR in early and she has low base damage.

hawaii tide6/15/2018, 3:46:47 AM10 votes

I think Riven really needs some help. Maybe revert on ult cooldown or missle speed? Theres just so much that she needs.

Ducasi6/15/2018, 9:31:06 AM10 votes

PLS DO NOT GO BACK ON ADC CHANGES

I hope you won't, but if you buff the least played (eg Trist, ...) than they become the only one played and then you'll probably have to buff the other ones too to have variety meaning we are back to baby sitting adc meta.

PLS DONT

Game is fun and with variety now, no class op (except tanks) and no need for baby sitting anyone.

PLS DONT

RH Venom6/14/2018, 5:07:29 PM10 votes

Hey Meddler, with fighter items being pulled, Riven is in more of a tough spot than before. She's falling behind and her uniqueness in the game is no longer unique with how the state of the game is going. The Riven mains subreddit is steaming with how un fun and useless she feels. She needs buffs, can you go over there or send someone there from the balance team to talk about possible buffs to her? She lost a lot without being able to start with 10% CDR, her early game is lack luster at best, and her W stun lock is so awful.

DarkSpiritslayer6/15/2018, 3:02:37 AM9 votes

about the fact that you guys removed the Fighter items again:


** 1. Fighters ATM **

terms of current power of fighters

you guys always say "Fighters are in a fine spot rioght now" but actually only Irelia Irelia and Camille Camille are in a fine spot at the moment (maybe Jax Jax too) ... because 2 (maybe 3) champs are viable atm doesnt make every Fighter good / viable / playable ... and Irelia is only viable atm cause she got a rework (which pretty much always puts champs in a rly good spot / makes them meta)

you guys even said it!

especially if you play fighters who aren't among the stronger ones right now, or who don't have a broad enough range of itemization.

you guys actually realize how there is a huge difference between fighters right now! but still you dont release these items that might help A LOT OF DIFFERENT Fighters

Irelia and Camille are dominating and every other Fighter is pretty much useless right now!

so why not tune down Irelia & Camille (maybe Jax a tiny bit) and release the items ?

that way the power of Irelia and Camille wont rly change that much (they get nerfs but also new items to compensate for it) but all the other Fighters get these new items so they might be viable!

and because some is gonna mention it anyways: because Yasuo Yasuo can be played bot now or some silly stuff like that doesnt change the current state of Fighters at all

Yasuo isnt even a "true Fighter" cause hes played completely different yeah sure hes a melee AD champ but hes based on his 100% crit BS (+ AS) his itembuild is completely different from any other Fighter in the game his core items aren't even Fighter items (like i said: its his 100% crit and maybe some attack speed) Yasuo is more like a melee ADC - not like a regular Fighter as long as you have 100% crit with Yasuo you can do whatever you want and you will do just fine - that has nothing to do with the current state of Fighters in general


** 2. Pro Play **

it kinda seems like you guys RLY want Irelia and Camille to be meta / picked in pro play atm maybe because Fighters are actually FUN TO WATCH

and its pretty clear (for example Phreak even said it in his patch 8.12 rundown (~1:25min into the video) !) that you guys balance they game around beeing fun to watch cause Worlds is gonna start soon

but like i said: nerf those 2 a bit + release the items and they will stay in the same spot! so no worries about them never getting picked or permabanned

and maybe - just maybe - we might even see more different Fighters in pro play! that would make it even more fun to watch (cause there might happen something in lane compaired to tank vs tank -lanes)

also:

but that the timing's wrong for them

only means that you guys dont want to change anything right now because Worlds starts soon ...

so its kinda like item 3504 Aardent Censer all over again where we have to wait ages until something changes ... like Phreak said in the video: we can wait till November (earliest possibility) until the Fighter items MIGHT come back!!! THATS ABOUT 5 MONTHS!!! 5 MONTHS OF WAITING UNTIL WE HAVE A CHANCE TO GET THESE CHANGES!!!


** 3. and of course Fighters are the ones getting screwed over again **

Building up expectations around content like this going out, only for it to then be pulled away, is something we try pretty hard to avoid. In this case, despite the pain that creates, we felt we needed to pull them out though.

you guys rly hate Fighters do u? xD

ofc something like: "getting our hopes up that finally some good changes will come live - but then our hopes get crushed again cause Riot gives us the middle finger and everything gets removed again" hits all the Fighter-players again

just like the class updates the Fighter update gets delayed again and again cause you decided to update other classes instead so the Fighter update got pushed back again and again and **in the end every class got an uodate - besides the Fighter class **...

or the Runes Reforged every class gets a selection of at least 1 good Kestone to use but Fighters get screwed over again and get pretty much not a single good Fighter keystone we had to wait MONTHS to finally GET A KEYSTONE!!! and now we have to wait even more months so get our new items?!?!?

or stuff like the mage item update noone asked for the mage item changes but still they suddenly got it out of nowhere and the main reason - the flat spell pen rush - wasnt even removed! mages can still rush flat magic pen early with item 3020 and item 3916 but on top of that they got a broken item 3003 and all that stuff we Fighters want 2 new items and ofc OUR new items get delayed again

i would rly love to see something like that happen to tanks or ADCs one day - not only Fighters but that will probably never happen cause Riot hates Fighters and Assassins and loves their Tanks and ADCs! i mean like wtf - ADCs already get buffed again on the PBE ... they got nerfed 1 / 2 patches ago and now they already get buffed again?!?! xD are they serious??? every time something is wrong with Fighters (or Assassins) we have to wait MONTHS untill finally something gets fixed - or maybe nothing will ever happen! as long as ADCs and Tanks are in a fine spot - am i right guys? ;)


yeah ... im pretty mad and SAD that these items wont be ingame for a looong time

Hey! with our (<- the Fighter-playerbase) luck the Fighter items will probably be never released at all! because f*ck Fighters :D

and i know writing all this wont do anything pretty sure they wont even read this

and they especially wont read it and care about it cause its about Fighters xD

04 20 19976/14/2018, 3:33:31 PM9 votes

Do you guys plan on tuning down Zoe and Irelia anytime soon?

Kaiser Rienhard6/15/2018, 4:51:18 AM8 votes

"8.12 Fighter items

We came to the conclusion at the start of this week that we should pull the fighter item changes out of patch 8.12, despite the patch being about to go out and a lot of work/testing having been done on those items. Our belief is that they're good designs, but that the timing's wrong for them, both in terms of current power of fighters and amount of change we've put into the game recently. Hoping to still do them at some point, with pre-season being the most likely option."

Dude just put them in and balance the game around the entire environment. I understand your reasoning for pulling them, but its wrong. This inter period between the major pro scenes is exactly when big changes like adding items should be introduced to give them time to adapt by the time playoffs hit. Everyday you keep them not released you stall their entry by weeks. At this rate it REALLY will be preseason before we can have them and that is what 6 months from now? That is ridiculous. Fighter items have been in the pipe for two pbe patches now for testing. How long did the ADC item changes get to be tested before they were rolled out?

It seems like there is blatant selective timidness when it comes to making these changes. Doing it piecemeal will only compound the problem later. Release the items now, balance the game WITH them in it and we can all be happy when whatever the meta that comes afterwards stabilizes sometime before the entire season ends. Please.

Kaiser Rienhard6/15/2018, 5:10:29 AM8 votes

Aatrox Fiora Hecarim Kayn Kled Yorick Vi Warwick Udyr Riven Shyvana Skarner Tryndamere Renekton Olaf Nasus

Look at all of these champs that aren't a huge problem to the game and were completely shafted by the loss of the new item changes.

XinZhao Jax

Champions that may have been a slight problem but could be easily tuned to balance with the new items (but who would see a lot of new builds and play styles become viable)

Camille Irelia

Champions who the refusal of the items were aimed towards.

I think we have ourselves a flawed decision making apparatus. Please put in the items and just balance the champs that need balance. Just do it.

I feed top6/15/2018, 12:27:04 PM7 votes

Dont you think riven should get some love? She has a 130 sec ult cooldown, which she recived because she started the game with 10% cdr, but now she got like no extra cdr and she gets no ad if you pick precision/resolve. She is really lackluster if you compare her to irelia/fiora/camille, you useally have a even trade against them, however they can heal up because they all have some form of heaing, while riven has the lowest health regen in the game. [sg-ahri-2]

SeeKerŻ6/14/2018, 3:25:10 PM7 votes

Hey Meddler,

Coming early again to annoy you a little with Fizz and ask if the changes are for this PBE cycle or the next one ?

Thanks for looking at Fizz again, we fizz mains, appreciate it !

Invade if Gay6/14/2018, 6:53:04 PM7 votes

About changes to gold funneling:

Please consider options other than slow down xp. Putting slow down xp on jungle makes it feel so so bad, earlier in the season with catchup xp being a bit overtuned and having slow down xp there was almost no reason to get ahead of the enemy jungle, it was better to just gank as hard as possible then take a couple camps and you would be caught up. With the recent nerfs to jungle spam ganking is not as effective anymore, unless you get one of the few great level 2 gankers. One of the few saving graces of these nerfs was that getting ahead of the enemy jungle actually matters much more now. If that were to be taken away the jungle role would just feel empty, it just doesn't feel right that every lane is allowed to snowball on their opponents except for jungle.

I think the real issues of gold funneling comes from supports/support items being overtuned. In the taric/yi combo taric is taking 0 resources off the map yet he is still generating a good amount of gold from thin air. With this gold he is able to purchase incredibly gold efficient items like ardent or zekes and buff a yi who has had nearly double the amount of resources he would normally have. I always though supports received gold generation because they needed to buy items like sightstone, oracles, and wards but those were all removed 1 by 1 while the gold generation remained. Sightstone is now built into an item that is gold efficient already and is basically required to be built which means supports are able to focus on building other items.

I think it becomes a problem because with these items they are able to give away literally all sources of income and remain relevant in the game, and it is very hard to counter because they don't need to do anything to reach these items. Maybe I am just a bitter hardstuck d1 jungler but I have listened to the opinions of a lot of players that are better then me (Imaqtpie/scarra/apdo just to name a few) talk about how the support role is not only a very strong/impactful role in the current meta, but also much stronger then it used to be. I think that can be seen as champions like Lulu, Taric, and Karma are taking over other roles in the game.

Would really like to hear your opinion on this.

rxinn6/15/2018, 12:09:28 PM7 votes

Thoughts on Riven please, she has very bad laning phase and every other toplaner just outclasses her by far

Hópe6/14/2018, 3:41:44 PM6 votes

Can we get feedback on Zyras plant health.

atlıkarınca6/14/2018, 3:27:00 PM6 votes

Any news on the lissandra?

Jinzo Torrance6/14/2018, 3:35:09 PM6 votes

You said Malzahar was one of the champions hurt by the mana changes. There are still no changes for him on PBE while waveclear champions like Viktor or Anivia already got buffed, what was the reason to decide to not buff him anymore?

FafliX6/14/2018, 4:43:22 PM6 votes

Do you guys have plans for Karma yet? Does the data show she needs some love after the nerfs yet, or do you need more time to figure that out?

Bunni6/15/2018, 8:04:22 AM6 votes

Hey meddler, What you think about riven right now because no starting cdr, no armor shredding or true dmg in kit like other bruisers???

better jg wins6/14/2018, 3:51:06 PM6 votes

"In terms of how we'll address it we're still testing exact tactics. Possible changes include returning the overlevelled XP penalty on jungle camps that got removed in 8.10, individual adjustments to champs like Yi (lane minion damage on Q for example), jungle items giving XP penalties for lane minions to offset the increased XP from jungle monsters etc. Should have more details soon."

Why do you want to nerf jungle again instead of nerfing the actual issue and thats support gold income and cost of their items ? with nunu/karthus nunu does not even take smite and starts coin and its enough to keep him relevant in the game. For taric/lulu/kayle mid + carry jungle (yi,kaisa,etc..) strategy again gold income is too high for the supports just from 1 support gold income item item and support items are so cheap that it does not matter that they are not getting any cs .

Spideraxe6/14/2018, 3:26:00 PM6 votes

Hey Meddler could I ask an Aatrox related question now that he's on the PBE, whats the thinking behind the AD gain from his E and ult, wouldnt that make a little stat checky, something of an issue with old bruisers, also will we get another post tomorrow since yesterday's was pushed today

lol you wild wyd6/14/2018, 3:28:07 PM5 votes

World Cup and some Gameplay Thoughts, lets get it!

Few things I would love to hear your thoughts on @Riot Meddler:

  1. Snowballing in the game. I know you mentioned that you guys are working on solutions but when stuff like this happens and then seeps into professional play, do you prioritise the pro scene more? or do you try to find a balance between pro and retail environments. Because both parties are equally effected. People like to run scaling comps/champion and the new Crit changes kind of contradict the snowball meta at the moment.

  2. A more general point, how do you feel the new Rune System has been received? Recently there has been a lot of concern that the system kills variance and diversity, something that Runes Reforged aimed to promote. Instead we have nerf after nerf funnelling our choices into cookie cutter builds to fit the meta or fall behind. Is this the right view or has diversity/creativity/off-meta not been hindered by this?

Cheers in advance :D

Zhaokiller6/14/2018, 3:57:53 PM5 votes

Hi Meddler, When Are you planning on releasing the next champion roadmap ?

Seviel Vorose6/14/2018, 5:15:44 PM5 votes

Hi Meddler! Has there ever been any follow-up discussion about some potential Syndra changes/buffs? Her Q revert was definetly a step in the right direction though.

lAlterl6/14/2018, 3:34:05 PM5 votes

What I said was not related to the Thread, I just wanted to know something about Aatrox: I just want to know why Justiciar Aatrox does not have its own redcall like the old Aatrox and I would like to know why the symbol of the star in R has not been added as the old one. I a m a little disappointed :S (sorry for my English, I'm not native English)

Venedictos6/14/2018, 5:53:26 PM5 votes

Oh god no. Please don't react so fast to the meta. Please let it play out and see how players adapt to it. Its way too early to react to this massive shake-up. Even the pros aren't sure what is right now the "meta". Finally after so many many years we're getting to see a more open environment.

Instead of completely killing the gold funneling strats, which have a lot of ways to be countered and can result in very interesting and interactive games (invading the jungle to deny the farmer the gold leading to multiple early skirmishes), why don't you nerf the support passive gold income? I mean, the idea is that you are having a player give up their gold for another to get really strong. But because of the way support champions, their income and their items are tuned, it results in the first player giving up too little. Its the support role's fundamentals that make the strategy unhealthy, not the strategy itself. Heck, the strategy will probably be solved and countered in a month's time and become a niche strat that we'll be seeing once in a blue moon.

Ivannite6/14/2018, 4:52:13 PM4 votes

Will this also fix 3v3's issue? The issue still persists with people taking smite bot as well and having a duo top in 3's. This results in a no jungler game, bot lane getting super ahead from running back and forth between lane and jungle, and a non-stop shove/poke top from support/ADC. I believe smite should only give monster exp/gold, if not to a certain extent as you are implying. It's making the jungle role feel obsolete or like a side job.

It's been like this for years at high elo and it's just a nuisance personally. I don't mind adapting to changes as long as it feels like proper gameplay, and not like a gimmick.

Spideraxe6/14/2018, 3:27:21 PM4 votes

Also can you share any insight on what 8.13's iteration of rageblade might be

Odriew6/15/2018, 12:38:20 AM3 votes

Hi Meddler,

I just want you to know that you're the reason I quit a game that I've devoted a massive chunk of my life to, and gotten quite good at.

For reference, I wrote (on my phone) a pretty lengthy (capped out the comment length, so you know exactly how long it is) and detailed analysis of exactly why Malz is not fun to play and what I thought would fix it, on an earlier one of these. I could have lived with it if you'd said, "We get it. His playstyle has changed a lot in the last few years, and we recognize that he's currently more focused on making plays than being a carry. However, he's where we want him to be right now." I would have been disappointed, but I could have lived with it.

Instead, I got completely ignored. Not so much as a single reply from you or any comparable entity. Riot does what Riot wants. You have even said, in your own comments, that thoughtful and detailed comments are more likely to gain traction than popular, but vacuous, opinions. I gave you that, and you couldn't even bother to take the time to acknowledge it. This team is awful. As a direct result of this, I flat out quit a game I've sunk thousands of hours into - you can check my history, if you want. I haven't played since the start of 8.11.

To reiterate, it's because Riot employees are so self-involved that you can't even be bothered to pay attention to the actual playerbase, no matter how much effort gets put in.

Sincerely yours, Someone who tried

Ronin Tamos6/14/2018, 4:53:46 PM3 votes

Just linking to this reddit thread to get some feedback about the whole fighter vs tanks / tank playability in Solo Q.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/8qvgk5/conqueror_in_its_current_state_is_bad_for_the/

Especially since i'd love to hear a designers opinion on the strength of tanks in the laning phase:

  • Are they supposed to be on equal standing grounds early with fighters?
  • When in the game do Fighters outscale Tanks e.g. tanks should not out duel fighters? (first back, from the pick and ban phase on, after first blood?)
  • Is a tanks only purpose to be CC without DMG or CC with respectable DMG but lack of killing potential?

What about the idea of having a clear losing lane by picking a tank, which seems to be the prefered dream of fighter/juggernaut players?

_Imho _ Tanks and Fighters should be on equal terms in early laning, player skill deciding wether you get harder to kill as a tank or more dmg as a fighter. Later in the game their respective roles start to show morer. Fighters can aim for picks, pushing and mauling the backline if they get there and tanks look for teamfights, CC-oppertunity and being the frontline with DMG but no Kill threat if reaching the backline.

Limmie6/14/2018, 10:26:32 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler, any word on the planed Zyra changes? You tanked about looking into some buffs for her a few weeks back but it's been nothing but radio silence since.