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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 30

RiotMeddler··1 votes·141,100 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Refinements to Bounties

We've got some adjustments to how bounties from CSing are calculated coming in 9.3. Our goal with introducing CS based bounties was to recognize when players and their teams were substantially ahead via CS gold and give catch up opportunities in those cases, rather than only when a player was ahead on kills. In some cases that's been working well, in others however players have been ending up with CS bounties not because they're ahead, but because they've caught up since their last death. We'll be making some changes behind the scenes to the CS bounty calculation as a result so that the threshold to hit a bounty better reflects actual game state, meaning that you should only have a bounty from CSing when you're meaningfully ahead.

Healing on Akali Q

At this point it's likely we'll be taking the healing off Akali Q. We're doing so because we believe the current set of tools Akali has means she's lacking in sufficient weaknesses, in lane in particular. Sustain is generally a tool we give to characters who have weaker all ins, or difficulty making an all in happen when they want. Akali's pretty good in both those regards however. Trying to trade and gradually grind down a champ with all in strength's normally a good response, sufficient healing nullifies that as a weakness however. Couple that with decent waveclear from Akali (in part because she uses energy, not mana), plus decent roaming to take advantage of that pushing, and it's hard to find strong enough weaknesses against her. That lack of clear enough weakness is then amplified again by Akali's ability to flex between multiple positions, allowing her to sometimes take a more advantageous match up. Being a flex pick isn't an inherently problematic thing, but it does add additional power to an already hard to punish kit.

It's certainly possible that removing Akali's healing leaves her in a pretty rough spot overall though. In cases like this where a champion's been problematic for an extended period we've had decent success in the past by taking a heavy pass to them to remove issues, then going back and adding power shortly after if needed once we've seen where they've landed. Zoe early last year was a good example of that, proving very difficult to get into an ok spot power and frustration wise with a series of smaller adjustments. Only after we took a really heavy pass and then put some power back in were we able to get her to a better, more stable state. We're looking at potentially bringing Akali's based HP5 up to average, from quite low, in 9.3 alongside the nerf, larger compensation, if needed, would be later though.

More Updated Movement Animations

We’ve got another round of updated walk/run (mainly) animations hitting the PBE shortly. Feedback on these once they’re there much appreciated. As before we’re targeting movement animations generally because they’re seen so often, so they’re a great way to improve a champion’s overall visual quality for the time involved per animation.

  • Dr Mundo - Mundo does things his way. In this case that means getting an updated Q throw animation instead of a walk or run anim.
  • Gragas - Updated base run
  • Katarina - Updated base run
  • Lux - New no boots walk anim and updated base run
  • Shen - New no boots walk
  • Twisted Fate - New no noots walk anim
  • Zyra - New no boots walk

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

326 Comments

pogcorn22 votes

revert aatrox

Tylosus15 votes

Hi Meddler, Have you thought about possibly moving Akali's heal to her passive auto? She would no longer be able to heal off the wave therefore reducing her sustain in lane phase and also make it a lot harder for her to heal in ranged matchups. Completely removing spell vamp/healing from Akali's kit seems like destroying an aspect of the champions identity that she has always had and removes one of the things that had always made her unique. As well I would argue her all-in isn't nearly as strong as other mid-lane assassins due to the delays in her burst caused by her passive circle and the delays on her ultimate,I feel like if her heal is removed she will just become like every other assassin but with worse burst potential.

Revert SyIas3 votes

Ok wow this is probably the best solution I have read today. Really like the idea and it would also support an aggressive and more calculated playstyle instead of just spamming Q at minons when at 180 Energy. Hope that the Riot Team sees this.

Dathdamage13 votes

Hey meddler, Any thoughts about Amumu?

cotniko4 votes

Amumu definitely needs a buff. jg nerfs hit him hard. Or a rework would be usefull

ImSorryYouSuck8 votes

Amumu, Zac, Rammus and other tank junglers Need Buffs. Overall jungle Xp nerfs need reverts too. 100%

RiotMeddler13 votes

Will get some thoughts on how the jungle's going in on Friday, including tank performance. Might still be waiting on some data so might touch on stuff next week as well.

abuzoz995 votes

Tank Junglers are really struggling right now. 2 jungle nerfs were too much for them. Either buff tank junglers or revert jg nerfs, or do both. And finally would u reduce the overall dmg?

StarGuardianNekø4 votes

The previous cinderhulk nerfs have hurt them quite abit because of champs like jax abusing its health gain so perhaps cinderhulk could get a redesign or changed to benefit true tank junglers?

IIIlIllIlIllIlII11 votes

There has been lots of talk around social medias about a potential nerf/removal of Conqueror and potential replacement with a fervor of battle styled keystone. Can you expand on this?

Linna Excel11 votes

Meddler, one complaint I've seen about removing healing from Akali's kit is that it's moving her too far away from her original design. It's something she's always had and is a core feature of her, first on her passive now on her Q. Shouldn't that be taken into consideration?

One thing I see about reworks is how often you guys push champs too far away from what people started loving about them to begin with.

Spideraxe10 votes

Hi Meddler, can I ask for some more context regarding the magical boots nerf since they seem really left field. I understand you guys are reverting them but what justified it in the first place

RiotMeddler28 votes

Some concern from people it's an overly effective and safe pick. Probably backing away from the nerf though, don't think they're causing that much of a problem overall and high usage rate partly just reflects other choices in that tree being niche or less appealing.

Infernape9 votes

So what's the most likeliest way that Akali will be compensated for losing her healing? Her base stats are pretty atrocious for a champion designed to work mid (due to her having in kit sustain), not to mention the energy costs of her Q will no longer make sense due to the loss of the healing,

RiotMeddler15 votes

I know it's an unsatisfying answer, so apologies in advance, but besides normalizing her HP5 we'll want to wait an see how she does with the nerfs before putting power back in somewhere. We feel our success rate's been quite a bit better with problem champions splitting nerfs and buffs than trying to predict too much ahead of time.

The Ginger Ninga5 votes

I understand why you're doing what you are regarding Akali, and I hope I don't come off as belligerent. But at the same time, leaving a champ to rot for a patch just feels horrible to those that enjoy playing them. In the same vein as the HP5 buff, wouldn't a small base armor buff be helpful?

TheSingularity1 votes

Unfortunately you're not the first. I think you should feel reassured that they're considering buffing her while other champs have remained in the gutter for years now

RooneR1 votes

{quoted}

Unfortunately you're not the first. I think you should feel reassured that they're considering buffing her while other champs have remained in the gutter for years now

Like what champs example pls. xD

TheSingularity3 votes

Ivern Nidalee (lane)Shyvana Azir

Kazekiba7 votes

I understand not wanting to overbuff a frustrating champion, but something seems strange. I recall someone (not you though?) saying the intention was to take power out of her shroud and then redistribute it elsewhere in her kit. She's already a fairly weak champion, so a small nerf coupled with added regen to a champion who cant utilize it (She isnt building item 3077 item 3107 item 3010), while a step in the right direction, needs more. Reduce the lockout on her R2 maybe, flatterns her learning curve a lot and lowers TTK (apparently, a high TTK compared to most assassins was the reasoning for Obscured?) across all elo/experience levels.

LastLaughLol11 votes

You probably won't see this, but have you guys considered either:

  1. Substantially nerfing the healing on her Q by a percentage

  2. Transfer the heal on her to empowered auto attack, so she can still trade effectively, but at the same time, not be able to freely sustain back up in lane without risking her safety?

Overlord Pizza9 votes

Here's some links to the walk cycles (the most up to date ones i could find). There are some other ones as well but since these ones were mentioned in this post i thought i'd just post them.

Gragas - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zgUw0jVAx8 Katarina - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL7GdQC5p20 Lux - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oufy4UdvLRQ Shen (in game) - https://twitter.com/RoryAlderton/status/1085320744660287488 Dr. Mundo(in game) - https://twitter.com/Tom_Anim/status/1085644764190392322 Twisted Fate(in game) - https://twitter.com/RoryAlderton/status/1082483344204431360 zyra - https://twitter.com/RoryAlderton/status/1077585623928557568

ZaneShadow4 votes

Thanks for linking all these, i was curious what they looked like. I really love the Lux walk personally. Gragas is a close second though Hahahaha.

That music makes all those walking animations a million times better

DarkSpiritslayer9 votes

Sustain is generally a tool we give to characters who have weaker all ins, or difficulty making an all in happen when they want.

eeeerm ... ok? Renekton ?

FlashDoubleDash2 votes

You forgot Tryndamere Garen Camille Fiora and Irelia . I think the consensus is that toplaners have a different metric (though irelia is played mid) as they are innately more brawly. Note that akali has a decent waveclear tool though and plays more like a melee assasin and has a completely different all-in pattern (it is an all in, but generally more predictable and less strong vs mobile champs) than any of the mentioned champs (outside of mid irelia because ya know, she was kinda broken).

RooneR2 votes

{quoted}

You forgot Tryndamere Garen Camille Fiora and Irelia . I think the consensus is that toplaners have a different metric (though irelia is played mid) as they are innately more brawly. Note that akali has a decent waveclear tool though and plays more like a melee assasin and has a completely different all-in pattern (it is an all in, but generally more predictable and less strong vs mobile champs) than any of the mentioned champs (outside of mid irelia because ya know, she was kinda broken).

Lol... How can you say Ire is broken after the gutting nerfs she receved??? it effects both top and mid heavly.

DarkSpiritslayer2 votes

sad but true

RIP Irelia

EndWolf2 votes

Ionia must stand united. Irelia and Akali need to stand together in this dark time. #IoniaStandsUnited

DarkSpiritslayer1 votes

lul true

but maybe those champs are considered to be in the "difficulty making an all in happen when they want" category ... which doesnt rly make a whole lot of sense tbh but maybe Riot is thinking like: Tryndamere : can only go all in if his fury is build up Garen : has no gapcloser and only a MS buff which makes is harder to engage all ins Fiora : can only go all in if a vital is pointed in her direction Irelia : can only go all in if she hits her stun (lul she has to hit her ability! what a condition xD)

but in reality all those champs can "making an all in happen when they want" (only Garen has problems if he cant reach his opponent with Q and Irelia has to hit her spell - but tbh every champ has to hit their spells xD)

but Camille doesnt fall in either of those categories :P

FlashDoubleDash2 votes

That is true, they are all not akali, and the same counts for renekton. He needs fury (at least close to 50, but rather more built up), and he needs a way to use his E (that means either a wave or the enemy being close enough).

StarGuardianNekø6 votes

With akali losing her Q heal has there been any thought on bringing it back towards her passive like her pre rework passive? Or is it just going to be gutted?

en2que6 votes

Are there any plans on reducing the gold given by turret plating or making it immune/extemely resistant to Demolish/Rift Herald? Right now it's the safest way to get gold due to plating gold not increasing your bounty at all. Lane bullies and assassins shouldn't be rewarded with 3 kills worth of gold for winning lane on top of all previous advantages they'd get before turret plating.

EndWolf6 votes

Hey Meddler,

As an Akali player, I understand that the 'Nerf to zero to figure out what went wrong' approach will probably be the best option for her in the long run, but I feel like the lack communication about that intention was what hurt the most. Up to this point the focus on Akali's balance was the shroud. What to do about the shroud. Should the shroud make her untargetable by turrets. Is there enough counter play around the shroud. That along with the fact that all previous mentions on the work with Akali was that she would be "Adjusted" gave the impression that only the shroud would be touched and she would get compensation some other way. I was fine with the possibility of the shroud being nerfed to the ground but was interested in what might be the potential buffs. Then the heal and her sustain gets gutted and the shoe drops.

While the Zoe approach to balancing is probably the best for champs like Akali who's abilities are so intertwined with each other that it is impossible to make a simple numeric adjustment to fix any integral issues, I would have been more comfortable if the plug was pulled early and communication was up front and honest about what your intentions were. I also feel like the community backlash from Akali players would have been lessened too if there wasn't moths of only discussing her shroud.

I hope by the end of this Akali is still a skill expressive champ that can be played in Mid or Top with interesting mechanics to bring to the table. I can think of many interesting things that could be added to her passive mechanics, Q, or ultimate and I am sure you guys are already thinking about what possible paths you could take her. I just hope you can be more up front about your goals and setting our expectations.

Hope you have a good day and i thanks for reading if this catches your eyes

Smeagiul5 votes

Hi Meddler, is support into the conversation to be looked at ? You guys posted 5 months that support items would be looked at, support tier 3 item aren't build by support (Remnant of the aspect HP just too low for the cost and what it used to give, and the other two are just not worth it just for the extra ward), I understand that locket was frustating to play against in a Meta where Tank Junglers could give a 2K shield but the game changed to a more early game focused kind of gameplay, think the item could see some changes (CD or Shield value idk to be honest). HP stats shard is irrelevant too in comparison to what you could get last season, and i know you guys have been trying to get Tank support out of the way for the past year cause of pro play but you need to know that even though you guys made a lot of changes to the relic line item ( HP nerfed, gold per 10 nerf, etc) Tank support will always be there in Pro play cause Pro know how to play around the Range vs Melee matchup and Aftershock helps a lot too when you can literally burst any enchanters with Alistar at lvl 2 with ignite. You know i've been asking for a long time and sent a lot of messages but i think it would be nice to just have a conversation about the support role cause atm, it became a lot more offenssive then it should be, you're not rewarded as a support for being a support to your team but more like a second carry in the botlane especially with how weak Crit adcs are atm. You can talk to Maple about the multiple messages i sent if you want to.

Have a nice day anyway, in the hope you'll see this.

Zaghyr5 votes

Can you explain the Stormrazor changes? It resembles one of the iterations but now has a slow and improves energize effects. Do you think forcing this item into an Energize enhancer item is a good idea? Looking at the numbers and the power of the power of the effects, it looks like Stormrazor will be bad on its own and a horrible choice as a single item for many of the champions who could flex into it, but it will be very strong for the few ADC thay build multiple Energize items. I think it would be better if the Energize enhancement effect was spread out over all of the Energize items so they all scale based on the number Energize effects you have, instead of forcing Stormrazor to be a niche item.

Rayjay Redfang5 votes

Hi Meddler, two quick questions:

Is Blitzcrank still getting an ezreal style update?

Has Nexus blitz playrate met or exceeded any expectations?

RiotMeddler8 votes

Blitz is still a potential candidate for an Ezreal style update. Nothing committed to beyond that though at present.

Nexus Blitz play rate dropped off real hard once the missions for it ended. We're assessing what to do as a result, had been hoping its baseline appeal would stay higher. Overall it dropped down to a pretty similar play rate to its first run.

ModPeriscope10 votes

I kinda disliked the short term missions. Sometimes you'd be stuck with missions that were based on RNG (like the scuttle-race mission), and I had to grind out games, as opposed to playing Blitz for some certain goal.

I did like that there was a mixture of short and long term missions, so you didn't have to focus on the missions every time.

loli nukes17 votes

Just wanna say the reason I stopped was that the missions were pretty consuming meaning that once the missions were over I must have played like 50-75 Nexus blitz matches, imo that was a lot of Nexus blitz for month period

Sora Omo2 votes

Nexus Blitz is fun and all and I really liked it but after the missions I felt kind of meh with it. Game mode is still good.

The Iceborn5 votes

Are you guys really considering Lissandra nerfs? With her rework her W was nerfed aswell as her R Also Morellos was nerfed and secondary rune stats, especially MR was buffed and all of that nerf her indirectly Thoughts?

Fine Ionian Silk4 votes

Hello Meddler,

I'm curious as to your thoughts of how the Rakan nerfs landed? While nerfs may have been necessary, I was wondering if you planning to relocate power into him, outside of his engage, or if perhaps that you were planning to put some back into his W? Just curious as to what the plan is!

Thank you in advanced!

RiotMeddler3 votes

Lemme pick someone's brain about that and get some thoughts in an upcoming post, agree it's a good one to cover.

KestrelGirl4 votes

What happened to Quinn's run?

RiotMeddler3 votes

Ran into some bugs with how it was hooked up (Quinn's a bit unusual behind the scenes). Hoping to have it as part of this batch, but not certain yet, so didn't want to make any promises.

DontDoTrox4 votes

Hello Meddler,

I hope you will read this, becaus I will try to write my thoughts detailed about the planned Aatrox changes.

The changes on the pbe right now, are going to a wrong direction.

Problems

  1. Removing the charge system on E seems legit. But the second direction you mentioned, in your last QGT, is way better. Having only 1 E every 9-5 sec is bad. You are able to poke realy hard in the early game, but late it gets difficult to hit the comb right.
  2. Removing E's spell vamp against minions completely, is wrong. It's one of the only thing remaining from the old Aatrox.

Solutions

  1. Take the second direction you mentioned with the renekton like E. It will help the enemy to play around it, since it will be on cd, sometime after the first cast. But it won't hurt his all in potential.
  2. Removing it, is the wrong choice. Perhaps you should just replace it. E.g. the second E cast (if renekton like E) gives you extra healing from all sources (including minions). This would still reduce his lane sustain and also lead to a more aggressive second e cast, instead of saving it as a disengage. OR at least increase the healing on champimos a little bit.

Thoughts Pls try the second direction with his E. Somthing like 16-8 sec cd with the current 3-1 sec cd in between each cast. Also the recast has to be within 4 seconds so you can do the Q comb right. Or something like that... :)

Sorry for bothering you Have a nice day.

HideofTerramorph3 votes

What are your thoughts on Sylas so far. His performance seems pretty lackluster from what I can see. It looks like its more than just a learning curve.

RiotMeddler7 votes

After giving him some time we felt we'd started him off a bit weak, hence the hotfix about a day ago that gave him a bit of base AD, MR/level and E damage. Overall he's generally playing as we'd expected pattern wise, including both player successes and failures based off ults stolen, hence the focus on just some simple power for now to complement the learning curve.

Syllvanas3 votes

Do you really think those Lissandra nerfs are neccessary? Her damage and ratios were already gutted down with the passive adjustment, and now shes going to get hit even more on the last spell that does decent damage in her kit.

Dont you think its finally time to do something about Aftershock instead of continuing to nerf the champions who use it?

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