Skip to content

Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 5

RiotMeddler··1 votes·166,383 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

Snowdown pass and Nexus Blitz

Both the Snowdown pass and Nexus Blitz will be going live tomorrow morning (6th of December). First, some pass details:

  • The Snowdown pass is an updated version of the Worlds pass. You now get tokens from winning games, with half as many for a loss. Champion mastery grades no longer have any effect on tokens earned. You can also get some tokens from first win of the day, from missions and from orbs.
  • Prestige Akali's available this time.
  • There will also be some unique rewards that only work on Nexus Blitz/ARAM during this event (special recall VFX/audio, finisher vfx/audio, a fire poro pet). You can unlock those via a second type of token that can only be earned on Nexus Blitz. Can also get them with RP if preferred.
  • Pass runs until the 7th of January. More details, numbers especially can be found on Riot Mort's Twitter https://twitter.com/Mortdog/status/1069710221780480005

Plus a quick refresh on what's up with Nexus Blitz:

  • We've done a lot of work on Nexus Blitz since its first run, with significantly better map art, improved events and rewards, some changes to the map geo, bans in champion select and more. If you never checked it out previously, or gave it a shot but found it a bit too unpolished, highly recommend giving it a try!
  • If Nexus Blitz proves to be really popular throughout its run we'll be looking into making it a permanent mode that's always on. If it gets a decent amount of play, but not enough to break the needed threshold for permanence we'll look at bringing it back as an RGM regularly instead.

Tower stats and rewards post preseason

So far tower stats and rewards are performing as we'd hoped. One of our key goals was to address cases where towers fell too quickly, cutting lane phase off too early. We didn't want to increase the length of longest laning phases by contrast, feeling those were already long enough. Looking at some stats:.

10th percentile (towers fall before this time only 10% of the time)

  • 8.22 = 9 minutes, 11 seconds
  • 8.23 = 11 minutes, 8 seconds

50th percentile (towers fall before this time 50% of the time)

  • 8.22 = 12 minutes, 17 seconds
  • 8.23 = 14 minutes, 1 second

90th percentile (towers fall before this time 90% of the time)

  • 8.22 = 15 minutes, 35 seconds
  • 8.23 = 15 minutes, 56 seconds

These are stats from all MMR ranges combined. When looking at high MMR only all of the above values are about 1 minute faster, both in 8.22 and 8.23.

Other goals were to make diving a bit more risky, via increased tower damage. We're still seeing a decent amount of diving going on, but with somewhat increased odds of a turnaround being possible, so that's also looking good so far. Still looking into data on the rewards side of things, will have that to share soonish. Also looks pretty appropriate though, with income up a bit but not dramatically, leading to champs more often leaving laning phase with their first big item completed as desired.


Lane Swaps

Lane Swaps are on our minds a bit given the changes to towers and game pacing. We don't want to see the game end up back in a state where early lanes are uncontested and champions just don't interact in organized play. We are open to early rotations or 1v2s as an occasional thing, though have some caution about how balance-able lane swapping as a more niche but viable option is, given it's been extremely frequent or missing entirely historically. Not concerned at present, given there are a lot of factors that should stop lane swaps being excessively powerful, or could be tuned to do so if needed. Plating gives more time to respond to towers going down. Plating rewards make it more costly to not defend your own towers. First tower gold, though smaller now, still exists as does tower fortification (50% reduced damage on top and mid outer towers in the first 5 minutes).


Katarina changes on the PBE

We've got a couple of changes to Kat's E hitting PBE I wanted to mention since they hard to spot or datamine and feedback on them would be useful:

  • Spell Buffering - Gunblade Active can now be buffered with all of Kat's spells. Should be particularly noticeable for higher ping players.
  • E - Cast time is now split into 0.075s before the blink and 0.075s after it, instead of 0.15s all up front. Should make E feel better when dodging incoming spells or picking up daggers.

275 Comments

Ereldra44 votes

Hello Meddler,

there has been for some time alot of complains (forum, reddit etc.) about the general damage in the game beeing too high. Something I've started to agree with; the game often times feels like "Who bursts whom faster wins".

Has there been any talk about this in the team? Do you like it the way it is or do you have any plans to decrease damage in the game?

ExpStealer11 votes

I don't think he's going to answer. There have been countless threads here, on the Boards, alone for nearly the entire season. They never bothered to answer.

Hell, he answered the guy asking about Smash Ultimate, who also posted about an hour ago, but not you. Think about it.

Ereldra15 votes

I mean, then we just need to ask again next time in order to make clear it's a problem that atleast a good portion of the playerbase thinks need to be addressed.

ExpStealer1 votes

We've been asking nearly the entire season, as I mentioned. What's different in whether we ask here, specifically?

Ereldra1 votes

What is the alternative you propose? I generally still like the game, so I'd rather keep asking hoping to maybe get an answer at some point/prompt them to think about the topic.

ExpStealer3 votes

The alternative is action as in not buying anything for a while. That's gonna hurt them and make them finally respond. But we need a very large % of the playerbase to do it and I don't think that's ever gonna happen. Besides, your original comment has nearly equal up- and downvotes, meaning the playerbase hasn't even gotten to a consensus on this topic.

im4smoore2 votes

You guys act as if this is a question that hasn’t been answered. The League balance team, along with Meddler specifically, has mentioned on numerous times that they believe the games overall damage is too high and have been taking steps to address it. Some more or less successfully (i.e. Dark Harvest rework, Infinity Edge rework, Celerity rework, talks of Absolute Focus being too strong, etc) but regardless of success the team is taking steps to try and reduce the game’s overall damage output. In that same vein though, if you’re all inning a Zed as Syndra, it’s absoluteg going to be a who bursts who faster. In reality it’s going to be like versus any assassin or burst mage.

On a personal note, Meddler doesn’t have to respond to you. He started doing these posts as a courtesy, not an obligation. Don’t expect him to go out of his way like you are entitled to his time.

TL;DR: Meddler isn’t your personal buddy in Riot Games, nor is he obligated to respond or even acknowledge you. The questions you’re asking are already being addressed or in discussion, but systematic changes like “the whole game’s damage is too high” is a lot more difficult to address than nerfing Irelia. Rather than whining about how Meddler doesn’t respond to your posts, instead research what change the Riot team is already doing to address your concerns and offer your constructive feedback to improving them knowing that Meddler will probably read but not respond to your posts.

Having such amazing designers, like Meddler, who share their internal workings with the community is a privilege, not a right.

Riot Meddler’s Quick Gameplay Thoughts concerning damage: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/2RzBfAcE-quick-gameplay-thoughts-july-27

Riot Axes’ Marksman update post: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/2ykqAkNa-marksman-changes-coming-to-pbe-in-the-next-couple-days

League’s Official patch notes regarding Dark Harvest changes: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-823-notes

Dethflash26 votes

Howdy Meddler, been a lot of discussion, and complaints about damage being to high, and i would agree. I enjoy playing tanks, but it feels like only tank supports (and some tank junglers) are good right now. This could just be because damage is to high currently. Is there any talk about damage being to high, or how tanks have been preforming (mostly in top lane im wondering about)?

JustCallMeSPED16 votes

I'm gonna piggyback off your relatively high position in the discussion to go ahead and leave links to the myriad posts there currently are right now for damage being too high.

I miss how strategic this game used to be "Riot we really want to tone down damage" Thoughts on rebalancing tanks "Damage is too high!" Theres no point in playing tanks now... The Year is 2023 why are the defensive runes shards half the value of offensive runes shards? response from Riot "Damage and burst are too high" Theres so much damage that the game has lost 90% of its fun. Rush Cloth Armor, +10 armor runes, lvl 4 Zed poke combos me for 60% of my HP

I really would like a Riot answer on this one, since last "Quick Gameplay Thoughts" talked about ADCs being too weak when they polled people, but the seemingly overwhelming opinion on the boards is that damage, including from ADCs, is too high. Like, I get that the boards can be loud and full of very angry people who all want their opinions made into the game, but it seems really odd to me that there is such a wide gap between the clear feelings of all the dedicated players on the NA boards, and the people Riot Games polled. I really would just like some clear explanation on how that wide of a margin is possible.

Λmumu20 votes

Hey Meddler,

Any Thoughts about Amumu?

The champion is pretty weak compared to the past seasons and needs a buff or a rework.

Amumu item 3070

Buff Riven Plz15 votes

Hey what are you’re thoughts on the whole fervor of battle vs conqueror discussion going on?

ModAcademy Kayn15 votes

Several months ago, you did a pass on "Upfront damage" by nerfing several Runes that gave said free damage, Scorch, Electrocute, Aery, etc. Several months later, are you guys satisfied with those changes from long ago, and if not, do you have any plans moving into the future?

Vhan876514 votes

I just don't understand who thought this new lazy way of doing events was a good idea; the whole concept of missions was made and then barely used, only now to feel like it's just being pushed aside for a lazy, grindy event pass. Events are supposed to be fun/enjoyable and yet they've become a hard grind for rewards, not having fun playing the game and getting rewarded for it. Not to mention too, with three Prestige skins with the new Aatrox now, how long will this sales tactic work anyways? People won't put in effort or money into something they don't feel is worth the value and the rarity of a skin increases that value drastically; pumping out 3 prestige skins after making such a big deal about how special prestige Kai'sai was supposed to be is just gonna burn out the whole concept.

Kazekiba10 votes

Thats why you just gotta... not buy the passes, stop giving riot money for doing stupid things and incentivizing them to keep doing it.

Chromas were supposed to be just ways to play a skin that wasn't ... the same skin all the time, and replaced 520 RP skins. but now every champion and skin that comes out has 7 chromas and they add at least 1 exclusive chroma per patch and a handful of random skins get chromas because.... ? Obviously they print money.

Don't get me wrong - I want Riot to continue succeeding and am pretty much whale status myself. No company should be taught success comes from scum tactics like hyping something up as unique and then repeating it OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER, not to mention theyre just making prestige skins because a certain champ is woefully Overpowered in competitive, which theyre mistaking as the player base actually liking the champion. See Kai'sa, who no one cared that much about but Riot made two skins for her less than a year after release because her play rate was so high. Well yeah, not picking Kai'sa in high elo was inting. Of course shes going to be in every game.

Jar Jar binks l12 votes

Are u Happy with Yorick current state?

chatoiidd9 votes

Hey Meddler !

I'd like to ask you some questions about Katarina's E changes.

  • If you actually plan on splitting the cast time that way, wouldn't it be smarter (and better) to simply remove it?

  • Do you plan on changing shunpo's animation back to its original (or to a smoother one), to fit better with the new/removed cast time?

  • Furthermore, What are your thoughts about early E cooldown after picking up a dagger?

Thanks ^_^!

Spideraxe7 votes

Hi Meddler do you have any updates on the Irelia and Akali follow up work, I heard you guys were re-evaluating her true stealth

RiotMeddler12 votes

We're looking at it. Opinion is split internally on whether supporting stealth under towers is the way to go or not. We're doing some experimentation with a set of changes internally right now. Update to follow once those have helped resolve which direction we'll go.

Nitros12 votes

{quoted}

We're looking at it. Opinion is split internally on whether supporting stealth under towers is the way to go or not. We're doing some experimentation with a set of changes internally right now. Update to follow once those have helped resolve which direction we'll go.

Just Curious, what are some of the arguments in favor of keeping the true stealth? It's really been a burden on the champion balance wise and a pain for anyone that plays against her.

MxWhiteKnight8 votes

Please NO. Take it out. Even the #1 Akali TF Blade is telling you to take it out.

It's not fun. You already made it bigger so it wouldn't be countered by most AOEs and annivia ultimate, no need for True Stealth. It's not fun, at all.

Fire Blaustoise7 votes

no nerf planned on UrgotLucian item 3135 ?

Support 4 Lyfe18 votes

I have literally never seen anyone complain about Void Staff.

Support 4 Lyfe7 votes

Hello Meddler,

How is Sona doing currently in this meta? I would love to hear anything about the current state of Sona's W and how weak it feels compared to every other enchanter's main protective abilitiy (Janna's E scales with 70% ap and has way higher base stats, so does Nami's W, Soraka's W and Lulu's E).

It scales really bad and the base heal/shield stats aren't strong either (30 heal/25 shield at level 1), plus, the mana costs on W are insane early game, especially if you're against a mage support botlane (most of supports are mage nowadays and they hit like a truck) and you need the extra sustain, I would love to see her W get some of its nerfs reverted or even a slight buff to the base stats or ap scaling of it, thank you.

Alicetaria11 votes

I would LOVE to see Sona's W get its mana cost decreased, why does it cost 80 mana at level one while healing so badly?

EROTIC RAID BOSS8 votes

her winrate is like 54%.

not unusual for a champ like sona but def not indicative of someone who needs buffs

Support 4 Lyfe1 votes

Only because all of her counters are in a really terrible state (Lulu, Karma, Rakan, Braum) and the rest of enchanter supports being really weak at the moment.

EROTIC RAID BOSS6 votes

Let's say that's true.

That's still a champion that should not be buffed

Lunari Empress6 votes

Hey Meddler, resident Diana player here, could you revert the attack speed changes made to Diana in season 7?

Being forced to use abilities and mana in lane to get somewhat respectable attack speed for CS'ing as a MELEE champion is horrible, it needs some adjusting, it doesn't matter much later into the game but early lane phase just feels horrible for after losing a part of our old passive.

Taking over a second to get a last hit against mostly ranged matchups is not enjoyable, in any way.

DarklightDiana, r/DianaMains Administrator

P.S The only change that wasn't good was the AS, everything else with those fixes were good, the mana from passive is great.

Nyctophobia3 votes

Second this, everything in the game has been evolving while diana has stayed the same she needs some compensation at least*[sg-janna]*

BlindingNeon6 votes

The Galio changes completely remove his identity as a warden/protector and push him towards an AP bruiser kind of play style. These changes also make his ult feel completely pointless and it is on such a long cool down while the ability isn't eve very good. Some basic abilities have more impact than Galio ult with these new changes. I loved playing as Galio but now he feels completely garbage only because of pro play.

Niχ5 votes

Any sneak peak about the buffs to the few adcs you mentioned? :)

RiotMeddler8 votes

Not yet, likely something on PBE late this week or early next week though.

DW Diana5 votes

Hi Meddler,

Just a quick one about Diana. With her lack of core itemization options, numerous bugs, and somewhat outdated kit do you plans to address her during the fighter update? She is after all meant to be a fighter and wouldn't need a complete overhaul, but given the mobility and core items afforded her AD Diver counterparts, don't you feel she deserves some love?

Wolfalisk3185 votes

I would like to request transparancy regarding what the needed player threshold will be for Nexus Blitz to be a permanent mode. This can help guide peoples' efforts to grow the mode and recommend it to others, build communities, etc. It can give us an idea of what we need to do.

There's a lot on the line here as the difference between a permanent mode and a Rotating Game Mode is constant availability versus 1-2 weeks per year if we are lucky. With the rate at which we're seeing RGM's lately though the frequency could be even less.

There's too much invested in this mode to relegate it to the RGM schedule. We need this to be permanent. Please ask those whom it may concern to keep us in the loop and not let the permanent mode threshold be a mystery.

Salvor Hardın4 votes

Hi Meddler!

In this PBE cycle will the massive buffs and nerfs come to balance all the champions who have been hit in the preseason?

Something to say about the current state of Renekton and Evelynn ?

:)

DCYOUNG8884 votes

Are the Sejuani changes coming this pbe patch for 8.24b or next year?

RiotMeddler10 votes

Next year. 8.24b's not a regular patch that will require a download, but instead more like a whole bunch of low risk (simple numbers) hotfixes all at once. That means some things can't go into it.

ViftUnder4 votes

Any Vi changes or buffs possibly planned or talked about? She has been struggling the last couple patches, and most noticeably this preseason patch.

garen is great4 votes

Hey Meddler,

Talked to Riot Maple on Twitter and it seems like some changes are being looked at for Gnar? Gnar

Any chance you could go over those? Thanks!

Dragonhace4 votes

Hi Meddler! Could you go into detail about what niche you want Spear of Shojin to have? Since you said the problem is it's not distinct enough currently.

Right now a big reason bruisers get a bad rap is their build path - unless they're playing pure assassin, they get two damage items into tank. At the three item mark, the adc suddenly faces a 200-250 AD Vi who ALSO has a Randuins. Spear is super important because light fighters need a full buildpath of hybrid items - not only does it help them scale throughout the entire game, but more importantly, it also keeps them relatively squishy unless they opt into pure defensive items. Making bruisers a healthy, balanceable class requires making them useful and vulnerable at all stages of the game.

Thanks!

Mr Dander4 votes

Could we get an update of your plans for Gangplank? Gangplank

Diablo v24 votes

is there any plans for asol u consistently nerfed his runes, than nerfed the champs he has less than a 0.59 pick rate and 49% winrate? he is known for his strong early game but his winrate min 1 till 20 is 44% ????????????????

VieldWolf4 votes

Hi Meddler!

Any context on the Kalista W change that popped up on PBE? I'm assuming you guys aren't trying to just nerf her when she's already not relevant in a meta where early game bully ADCs should thrive. Are we getting significant power-downs to her Oathsworn mechanic so she can get some strength back into the fun parts of her kit (hopping and rending)?

PaffWasTaken4 votes

To be honest, even if towers do indeed make early game longer, its at the cost of making anything after it even faster or more and more one sided because of how snowbally it gets when someone destroys plates. The income from destroying plates need to be really tuned down, or else the game experience just feels even worse than before in terms of one-sided stomps.

Heimerdinger Bot3 votes

Hi Meddler, could you provide any insight into the changes coming to Sejuani, specifically, is she receiving just number changes still like what was on the PBE not too long ago or have/are you guys looking at possible changes in the form of an ability rework/revert? Thanks for any information at all.

Aurelion Swol3 votes

Any chance you are going to buff aurelion sol? He feels awful in this meta, and in basically every lane matchup.

beany1 votes

This might go without saying, but will there be followup for galio in the current pbe patch? Afaik the changes were meant to be an overall buff for galio. Also now that his ult doesn't absolutely prevent allies from dying could it have it's early cd reduced slightly?

Crucially if the changes with galio are successful do you see a similar approach being taken with shen as regards to his ult?

RiotMeddler6 votes

Need to see where Galio lands, follow up in 8.24b is certainly possible. Goal was to shift power around in a way that buffed him for regular play without adding power (or at least much power) for organized/pro. If he ends up weaker in regular play would want to add some power in, would be really hesitant to do ult CD though, given that spell offers more value in organized play.

Taking power out of Shen ult and moving it elsewhere is possible. We do see regular games get a lot more value out of the shield on Shen ult than the DR on Galio though, given Shen ult can be used more reactively and less proactively so doesn't reward practice and coordination as a team as heavily. Not sure reducing defensive value from it would necessarily be the way to go as a result.

VeXuM1 votes

Any thoughts on Statikk shiv? Seems very weak at the moment given it’s only user is Quinn

Galiö1 votes

If u think statikk is weak u should see runaans.

More from Dev Corner

More by Meddler