Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 2

RiotMeddler·2/2/2018, 4:25:05 PM·1 votes·100,461 views

Hey all,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Patch 8.4

Number of things going into patch 8.4 below. There'll likely be a bit more to follow too, and as usual some of this stuff might not ship or will likely change.

Runes Changes:

  • Fleetwork Footwork/Press the Attack - We'll likely be buffing PTA and/or nerfing FF. Recent changes to FF make it too dominant a choice in Precision at this point, still debating though whether that means we should bring PTA up and/or FF down though. Lethal Tempo by contrast needs bigger work (thoughts on that once we're starting on it, not as urgent as other Runes work though).

  • Resolve non keystones - Likely replacing a rune or two and moving some runes around to make the second slot especially more interesting and appealing.

  • Precision Stat Bonus - Splitting with other trees like Resolve does (e.g. Precision+Domination = AS and AD).

Item Changes:

  • Tracker's Knife - Investigating (might not change) whether this is just too dominant a choice at this point, which also leads to excessive vision especially in organized play.

  • Hunter's Talisman versus Hunter's Machete - Tweaking stats a bit to make Talisman a better choice on champs it should be strong on.

  • Jungle items generally - Potentially increasing mana regen to open up the jungle more (mana gating keeps quite a few champs from clearing effectively early relative to less mana hungry junglers)

  • Ancient Coin - Looks too weak, even on champions it fits best on (Janna, Soraka, Rakan). Smallish, simple buffs likely as a result.

  • Wit's End - Buffing slightly in general and a bit more for melee champs (they'll steal MR faster than ranged).

Edit: AP item changes will also be in 8.4, forgot to include those somehow when writing this originally despite the fact we've been looking at them a lot this week.

Objectives:

  • We'll be taking a look at Baron Buff and Elder Dragon buff. At present their impact in really long games seems to fall off too much, which means you don't pay enough of a penalty for playing safe and not trying to contest them. That can lead to drawn out, unresolved games without much happening. In Elder Dragon's case it also means the value of contesting early dragons, regardless of element, isn't as high as it should be either.

Champ Nerfs:

  • Ornn - Looking at what enemies should be able to do to respond to him in lane. Details to be determined.

  • Gnar - Needs clearer weaknesses enemies can play around, particularly in lane. Details also TBD.

  • Kalista - We're still working on pulling power out of Kalista for pro play without hitting her hard in regular play.

Champ Buffs:

  • Evelynn - Previous nerfs were harder than intended. Looking to give a bit of power back in a straightforward way.

  • Volibear - Fingers crossed will finally get changes in 8.4. We've been testing a range of things in addition to the previously mentioned brief displacement on champs on E. That knockback's still testing well so that's almost certainly happening. Probably a secondary buff as well (e.g. might have Q MS not fall off so aggressively when briefly facing away from enemy champs to move around skillshots or whatever).

  • Fiddlesticks - Is struggling quite a bit in the jungle. Buffing as a result, not sure exactly how yet.

  • Talon - Struggling in both mid and top. We'd previously been avoiding giving him power because he was doing well in top lane, he's just weak all round at this point though. Likely fairly straight forward numbers buffs.

Other Champion Changes:

  • Rengar - Reversion of Q to an on next hit ability will happen in 8.4, along with some smaller changes to other parts of the kit.

Saved Rune Pages

For cases like 8.4 where we're changing non keystone Runes (replacing some or swapping positions of others) we'll be automatically updating saved Rune pages so that they're still valid. First goal is to avoid forcing people to remake entire rune pages when the system has only changed slightly. Sonc goal is to make sure everyone still loads into game with a full set of at least ok Runes even if they haven't yet edited their pages since the changes. We'll be doing some call outs in the game client as well when stuff changes for people who want to update their pages themselves, getting some defaults in as a fallback too though.


Zoe Thoughts on Zoe next week. Was going to get some thoughts on how we see her and what our plans are for this post, would like to take a bit more time to talk through issues and approach with the team first though.


LeBlanc

After Rengar ships in 8.4 we'll be looking at LeBlanc. Current plan is for a similar level of change to Rengar's, likely including some degree of moving back to things about old LeBlanc that worked well (both for LeBlanc players and for game health). Not certain on timing of when that work would ship, goal would be to get it onto PBE fairly quickly and, as with Rengar, work on it for multiple patches while getting feedback on it.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

496 Comments

Rework Quinn2/2/2018, 5:28:10 PM29 votes

With the trend of champions who received class-level updates being partially reverted (specifically Rengar, KogMaw, Leblanc) what are your thoughts on similar explorations for Quinn? Personally, I preferred old Quinn; however, as a staff member of the Quinn Discord server, I know many players would be unhappy with simply a change in that direction.

SoundChaosDebug2/2/2018, 4:25:50 PM18 votes

First post, Top lane makes no difference in the game when bottom lane throws while enemy jungler helps.

Spideraxe2/2/2018, 4:33:04 PM18 votes

Hey Meddler can I ask about the Bruiser keystone also in 8.4

RenanRein2/2/2018, 4:31:43 PM17 votes

Hey Meddler, about the bonuses stats on runes: I think that giving the players the option to choose the status freely could fix some problems. Right now we have only 3 types : HP, AS and Adaptative Force, so, its not so hard to allow us to choose betwenn 1 or split 2. If you guys allowing the players to choose freely, you could solve some of the bruisers problems, and open more options to the players, because this status bonuses are restricting a lot of playstyles, and we can agreed that this were not the goal with the new runes. For example, when Resolve only had the HP as bonus status, I was taking Precision secondary on Poppy to scale even more tenacity (with the legend rune) and Last Stand to combo with my W passive (more resists and damage on low hp ;D), but with the new Resolve bonuses, I can't take this combination anymore because AS is not the best status for Poppy. If we could choose the bonuses status for freely, Renekton could take Press the Attack and have AD as runes bonuses, Ekko also could take Press the Attack to combo with his passive, Vayne could take phase rush and AS as bonus and be a relentless hunter, etc.

Ereldra2/2/2018, 4:35:32 PM10 votes

Can you give us some specifics about the changes to AP-Items? How big are the changes, is there maybe a new item/changes Passives or is it just tweaking numbers (AP, Gold Cost etc.)

BadPiriPiri2/2/2018, 4:58:51 PM10 votes

Is Caitlyn still going to be buffed?

SCi am I2/2/2018, 6:43:48 PM9 votes

MonkeyKing's passive does not seem to add to his play style or kit. Is there anything being done/looked at around that atm?

Altarious2/2/2018, 4:30:58 PM7 votes

Hi Meddler, wanted to know if the changes currently live on the pbe to lucian will go to live servers with patch 8.3? since not even in surrenderat20 the changes seem to be listed.

Blossom Crown2/2/2018, 4:45:17 PM7 votes

Hi Meddler, any thoughts on Syndra’s performance? Even with the bug fixes, she doesn’t seem to be in a good spot.

kennon2/2/2018, 9:18:49 PM6 votes

If you're going to be nerfing other aspects of Ornn is there any chance that the unstoppable on W will come back?

Zepherys1372/3/2018, 1:52:42 PM4 votes

What about Kassadin? He is feeling too weak after the agro changes in 8.2...:/ His late game is the same, but the laning phase is nightmare, literally nightmare to play, even if you know the match up, and how to use your champion's full potential.

Gnart Even Close2/2/2018, 4:42:48 PM4 votes

Gnar - Needs clearer weaknesses enemies can play around, particularly in lane. Details also TBD.

Anything you can say about likely direction? I.e. are we talking nerfs to Q CD, hitting base stats, something else?

If you're still exploring, would you consider hitting the Q CD refund (change to something like 30/40/50/60% from 45/50/55/60%)? I see a lot of complaints about his Q, and all of my fellow Gnar mains that I've talked to think that would be a good change to start.

XIII Vanitas2/2/2018, 4:46:05 PM4 votes

Are the bonus stats going to be split between the two trees only when Precision is the primary one or also when it's the secondary one?

J Eevo2/2/2018, 6:27:26 PM4 votes

Any plans for compensation for Kassadin after the minion aggro vs targeted spells changes? He fell down to 47% from that one change and he didn't get anything, arguably didn't need the nerf.

KorboKuin2/2/2018, 9:55:47 PM3 votes

So is top lane gonna be playable before the end of the season or shall I come back in 2019

pseudo dionysius2/3/2018, 1:54:30 AM3 votes

Please tell me you have some changes for Abyssal mask. Veigar and cassio shouldn't be able to run that item without consequence.

beany2/2/2018, 4:46:18 PM3 votes

Hey meddler, regarding precision stats being split, won't it make taking precision as a splash unattractive for many champs? I feel as though the coup de grace and triumph nerfs might not need to have happened if people determined they wanted more ad/ap over taking those two runes.

ModJango Mage2/2/2018, 5:05:02 PM3 votes

How did the testing go with enabling removed summoner spells for unsealed spellbook?

AirKingNeo2/2/2018, 11:29:58 PM3 votes

Fleetwork Footwork/Press the Attack

Any plans to make any precision keystone viable on melee? Might as well take the chance to do it while you're changing these.

Precision Stat Bonus - Splitting with other trees like Resolve does (e.g. Precision+Domination = AS and AD).

What if you're a champion who would prefer pure AS like Varus, Kayle, or Azir? Sure Varus can use the AD well, but the minor AP is shit compared to AS for Kayle and Azir.

Hunter's Talisman versus Hunter's Machete - Tweaking stats a bit to make Talisman a better choice on champs it should be strong on.

Jungle items generally - Potentially increasing mana regen to open up the jungle more (mana gating keeps quite a few champs from clearing effectively early relative to less mana hungry junglers)

Obviously, only the mana regen on Tailsman and none of the upgrades, or else Nidalee abusing Grail gets a lot better.

While talking about the jungle, I think Runic Echoes is shit and I don't think Nidalee and Elise should be broken to compensate. Warrior gives 60 AD; that's a good amount of AD for an item. Runic Echoes gives 60 AP (and has a poor build path); that's a terrible amount of AP. That's why the only viable AP junglers are high base damage like Nidalee and Elise, and that's why Ekko jungle won't be viable.

Solution? Runic Echoes to 80 AP, and nerf Elise and Nidalee to compensate. Side note: Kayle's E is still bugged and the AOE damage doesn't apply Tailsman's burn-heal effect.

Yadid2/2/2018, 6:50:06 PM2 votes

Hey Meddler! Sounds a little bland, but wouldn't making the Elder/Baron buffs scale over time make them more incentive to contest? Like the Baron buff @ 20 min is 75% as strong as the baron buff @ 40 min?

DCYOUNG8882/2/2018, 5:04:26 PM2 votes

Asked this on Wednesday’s post earlier but will Thresh get a buff for the relic shield nerf?