Skip to content

Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 2

RiotMeddler··1 votes·48,827 views

Hey all,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Midseason changes still being worked on

As you've likely seen in other threads in the Devcorner and PBE Boards we've got a number of changes in for midseason. Those are still being worked on, whether it's polish on AD items that will be in 8.11, ongoing exploration and tuning of jungle changes (probably in 8.10) or follow up to mage and AP item mana changes from 8.9. Continued feedback on those much appreciated, whether from direct experiences with the changes in game or analysis of them after they're posted. While we won't be able to act on every piece of feedback, especially when different players are looking for very different things, it is extremely valuable, letting us catch or improve a range of things.


Thoughts on supports soon

We've talked about a lot of other classes and positions recently, we haven't talked much about supports and problems there for a bit. Some thoughts on that shortly (Friday or mid next week). Short version is there are some issues we want to look at once midseason's stabilized, including how reliably defensive power is from enchanters and whether the current power from the heal/shield stat's too high and/or undercosted. Long version soon.

Varus W empowered Q sounds

We've been seeing some feedback recently that it's too hard to tell when Varus is charging a W empowered Q, versus just a normal Q, making it hard to play around that more dangerous cast. Turns out one of the reasons for that is that the main audio cue on the empowered Q charge (a spinning powering up sound) wasn't playing most of the time. That should be fixed in 8.9, let us know if it's still really hard to tell if it's a normal or empowered Q after that.


Surrender Rules

Sometime soon (probably starting this week) we'll be testing a change to the early surrender rules that removes the unanimous vote requirement and instead goes with the normal 4 of 5 yes votes. That change will initially be only on the Oceanic server, if it tests well there we'll then roll it out to other regions as well.

We originally went with a unanimous requirement for early surrenders to ensure players weren't having games that looked winnable still surrendered out from under them that early. Looking at early surrender's use however games that fail a surrender 4-1 between 15-20 very often end up with a surrender or defeat around 20 minutes instead. That means the unanimous requirement is mainly just dragging out already lost games.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

258 Comments

SeanGoku20 votes

Hey Meddler. How about you guys take this opportunity to try out my surrender "switch" instead of the vote? In short it just means that everyone can vote silently (or "switch" their vote) in the options menu. And as soon as the threshold is reached the game is ended.

edit: Some people noted some edge cases that might be frustrating with this system. So alternatively you could have the surrender vote pop up, when 4 switches are turned on. This way everyone gets a last chance to change their mind. Just added this up here to keep everything tidy.

  • There would be no more annoying surrender vote spamming of toxic players during team fights
  • Nobody would be forced to make the prompt decision every time, but make their decision any time they want
  • You could switch the switch any time, even at minute 1, but the game would simply continue until both requirements are met
Kalturi2 votes

On the other hand, it would be really frustrating if I had my surrender option switched "ON" but something changed and I no longer want to surrender, but I haven't gotten a chance to change it, and then a teammates swaps from "OFF" to "ON" and that triggers a surrender for my team.

Essentially I'd feel like we surrendered and I didn't want to but I contributed to the vote positively because I just hadn't gotten a chance to change my setting yet. That would be a really crappy feeling.

I am Razgriz2 votes

A fix for his idea is setting a notification once the threshhold has been reached that puts a 15 second timer that's more of a "Are you sure you want to surrender?"

Shaian16 votes

Anything regarding Zyras plant HP which has been shelved for a while now?

Boltonator7 votes

So support changes are going through, eh?

Hopefully we won’t get nerfed into the ground too badly, though my main concern is early game and how effective shields and peel will be when a game is fresh and we don’t have a solid build yet.

RiotMeddler3 votes

There are some support related issues we want to look at and talk about. Nothing concrete yet though and assuming we do make changes they'll be after we've done some midseason followup/balancing.

Spideraxe6 votes

Also can I hear your thoughts behind what we may see in preseason

RiotMeddler29 votes

Sure, though I'll have to get back to you in 3-5 months on that.

Spideraxe13 votes

Bookmark this comment

Raiokun6 votes

Will karma be in this discussion or is she more on the mage side of things?

RiotMeddler5 votes

Going to be talking general issues (e.g. state of shielding/healing overall and problems from that) rather than changes planned for specific champs.

hibernis5 votes

There is a bug on Lux's E. Link

No official comments yet. Is Riot aware of this problem? I'm sorry for posting an unrelated issue.

RiotMeddler7 votes

I expect we'll look at hotfixing it today if possible. Having said that I'm not at work yet and it cropped up overnight (I'm assuming in the new patch), so we haven't had time in the office to coordinate on patch responses yet.

Malicious Metal4 votes

Hey Meddler, don't know if you're the one I need to ask, but did you guys actually change Mordekaiser's W2 Icon? Ever since the new patch it looks greenish-blue instead of just a brighter shaded hue of its original icon.

RiotMeddler7 votes

Yeah, from memory it got recolored a bit. Do you have thoughts on it?

Malicious Metal3 votes

It was weird at first glance since I thought it was just another visual bug but I do think it does more easily show if your W is active and that it's actually a heal. Most healing spells do have a distinct green hue in their icon so I think it's better in terms of clarity.

RiotMeddler5 votes

Cool. That was the intended outcome, glad to see it's coming through even if there's some initial oddness.

Solari Fortune6 votes

At this point if anything changes on Morde do you all just assume its another bug?

MetaKaizer3 votes

If it's not listed on patch notes, yea

Solari Fortune4 votes

Could some context be given on why IE has Yasuo's double crit passive?

What do you think will be the main rush items post marksmen changes? I think StormRazor ER BT or BotRK will what an adc rushes depending on the champ

How does StormRazor's Auto Crit work with MF's Q because the first hit cannot crit

Lastly thoughts on Ashe since her crit system is much different to other adcs

RiotMeddler4 votes

We wanted to make it so IE was a late game item, not something you rushed early. Early IE gives really high potential crit, gets multipliers on damage going too fast and leads to increased access to crit in lane. Shifting it to a later item and pushing some of its power towards being better at killing tanky targets more helps with those issues. We chose double crit because it's both a pretty strong limiter (no way you're rushing this as a first item and few champs can go Zeal item first) and one that's pretty easy to understand (oh, I need some crit for this to do anything, I'll get it later).

I think you'll generally be right about StormRazor, ER and BotRK as common rush items. Less confident we'll see early BT still. Would also still expect some of the existing less common starts to still exist too. Things like Triforce, Rageblade, Lethality etc on specific champs.

Not certain on the MF Q interaction with StormRazor, let me get back to you on that one.

Think it's likely we'll need to do some tuning on Ashe after these changes, though I think current thinking is what and see where she lands, rather than trying to pre-emptively change things. Is there a particular interaction or item you're thinking with regards to Ashe?

Solari Fortune2 votes

IE: Alright makes sense, granted I feel people will still do the Zeal item into IE just out of habit so I guess they will be weaker early on correct?

Starting Items: I mainly said BT as more of a "Hey I got a pretty sucky lane match up (like double poke) so I gonna go this so I don't have to back every 5 seconds

MF: It be cool (maybe a little broken) if it didnt consume Stormrazor on the first hit but made the bounce crit like how it does when it kills the first target or naturally crit

Ashe: I guess it was mainly her passive since IE's bonus was added into that whole equation StormRazor and ER on Ashe does sound fun tho on PBE just Storm Razor Hurricane Boots and my Q I was almost at 2.5 attack speed. Maybe if I ulted I coulda gotten to the cap

RiotMeddler2 votes

Yeah, I'm guessing we'll see some people stick to their old habits for a bit and struggle in some cases. Happens whenever we change items and don't completely change the name/icon though.

I think you're right about the need for a 'my lane sucks, help me survive in it' item. Just suspect BotRK will generally fill that niche more than BT.

Solari Fortune2 votes

speaking of Icons will any of the marksmen Items be getting a new look?

Mainly IE cause I feel it might be somewhat starting to show its age

RiotMeddler3 votes

Yeah, I think we've got an updated IE one at least. Not aware of any changing beyond that right now.

RiotMeddler3 votes

MF Q - can't crit on the first Q overrides the guaranteed crit on StormRazor. The StormRazor buff is then removed since subsequent hits, whether Q2 or regular AAs, are no longer the first AA.

DerMangoJoghurt4 votes

I probably just missed it, but I haven't heard anything about Zoe recently and every Zoe I've seen in-game (not that many to be honest) has looked like she's underperforming. Do you think she is in a good spot after her changes? Do you consider giving her a nudge towards her initial playstyle, now that people learned how to play against her?

Rework Quinn6 votes

I'm not the one you're asking, but I think Zoe's actually in a great spot.

She can still do crazy damage, but it requires a bit more skill expression from the Zoe player to make her work extremely well, and I think that's good.

RavenHusky4 votes

You guys wound up bugging out Lucent Singularity with the new patch, so that if you try pre-detonating it, it charges you the mana cost again, and it won't even let you pre-detonate if you don't have the mana.

https://clips.twitch.tv/KindObservantChickenOptimizePrime

Any chance that this gets hotfixed this patch?

ninjaduken3 votes

Hi!

About a month ago Repertoir stated that Zyra's plants health were being looked at. Any news on this?

I'm looking into some solutions for plant pain points. I agree they're under delivering.

Comment in question: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/9FuMtqJf-cg-riot-you-have-finally-destroyed-midlane-zyra?show=flat&comment=0026

Khristophoros3 votes

People like to give up and lose. You're just making it worse by officially validating that behavior.

The game is also too snowbally. Too bad you're just embracing it.

Kyunsei2 votes

@Meddler What do you think about Tryndamere and Yasuo regarding ADC items revamp ? They aren't the target of those changes, will they receive compensation buff ?

RiotMeddler5 votes

They might receive compensation buffs, or compensation nerfs, depending on where these changes put them. Either would likely be after we see where these changes land.

WindLord70702 votes

A rioter said on twitter that lane nidalee will be prioritized sometime can you give any word on how soon it would be? Like before the end of the season or next season?

RiotMeddler2 votes

Got a link to that comment? I may have missed some discussion.

RiotMeddler6 votes

Thanks. Haven't heard a pitch from August on lane Nid, going to tag him in to share his thoughts instead as a result. We'd like to get Nid back into lane, but have concerns that need to be addressed is the starting point and why we haven't just added some laning focused power to her.

Marisa1 votes

While we're on the topic of Varus, are there any thoughts on Varus's current state since the W changes?

RiotMeddler4 votes

Potentially a bit on the weak side, accompanying W and passive nerfs took a bit more power out than we'd intended. Having said that we've got a lot of marksmen impacting stuff arriving soon so I think it's likely we reassess after that, see if he needs changes at that point or not.

Mastęr Yi1 votes

So will Last Whisper be a must buy 3rd item again like before?

RiotMeddler7 votes

We're looking to avoid that, in particular with a higher price point on it relative to where it used to be, so it's not so mandatory early on so many champs. Having said that it's likely some degree of must buy for it does creep back, particularly on champs that synergize really well with it. That's a price we concluded was worth paying though for the other benefits shifting back to total pen gives (in particular more appropriate scaling for many champs who don't have to be early game or bust to the same degree).

F3EDfromDesIr34 votes

How is it a bad thing if almost every ad builds Last Whisper

Its not like mages arent building Void Staff everygame

RiotMeddler6 votes

I'd argue it removes choice and variety from the item system, leading to a less interesting game. Void Staff does that too. In neither case is that a critical issue, but it's a cost we pay if we have those items exist as very general multipliers on your damage like this.

Gear5Luffy1 votes

Is the crit on towers with stormrazor intended or just a bug because i can crit the towers several times with jhin besides the 4th shot when i have stormrazor

RiotMeddler3 votes

Critting towers is a bug, should be fixed in an upcoming PBE build.

TheRealBaz1 votes

would i be right to assume empowered autoes not counting towards the passive at all, specifically rek q, is also a bug?

RiotMeddler2 votes

I believe so. Draven and Rengar are also bugged in the same way right now.

More from Dev Corner

More by Meddler