Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 1

RiotMeddler·9/1/2017, 4:37:31 PM·1 votes·43,116 views

Morning all,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Tweaking Champion Voices

We get a lot of good feedback on ways to tweak and improve champions in terms of how their abilities work, loading screen art, visual effects in game, ability audio etc. Generally we can act on that feedback, especially in cases where it's a small change that's quick to do and a clear. Champion voices (VO) are usually an exception to that unfortunately and I figured it would be useful to talk about that a bit.

With almost every other part of the game we can adjust stuff pretty easily ourselves and in multiple languages. Visual effects artists who work at Riot can adjust spell effects, writers can change champion bios, designers can tweak balance etc. With VO however it's not that simple a process unfortunately, since we're using voice actors who don't work here and have other commitments. That means it's comparatively difficult to something as simple sounding as one new line. We need to find a time that works for the actors in question and then get them into a recording studio. That's made much more difficult because there are a lot of voice actors per champion since there's usually a separate one for each language the game's in. Sometimes it's still practical to add or adjust one off lines (e.g. if we're recording a number of extra lines already for a champion release trailer or something similar it's easy to add a bit more in too). Generally though it's not doable, even if the idea's really cool, which can really suck when somebody suggests a fantastic idea.


Possible change to how we do gameplay patches next year

Something we've been talking about recently is whether to try a slightly different approach for a while early next to year to how we release gameplay patches. At present most patches are very similar to each other. We've been considering trying an alternating large gameplay patch/small gameplay patch cycle however. The small patches would only contain balance changes that are for things in dire need of a change (e.g. very strong or very weak champions), or extremely simple changes that aren't too disruptive and don't need as much testing (e.g. base stat tweaks). The large patches by contrast would then contain larger balance changes, mini updates, item changes, Runes adjustments etc. Total amount of change over time would likely be fairly similar, though more concentrated. One of the biggest possible benefits there is that that would allow us to spend more time on longer term fixes for things, and less on short term adjustments that don't always fix fundamental problems. One of the biggest downsides is some things would potentially get addressed slower than they currently do. Curious as to people's thoughts on such an approach?


Xin Zhao update probably in 7.19

As per the title there it's likely the XZ update ships in patch 7.19. For anyone unfamiliar with context on it it's a smaller update, so will involve tweaks to some of his skills and stats while keeping most of his kit very similar to its current functionality. A few spell/character animation updates, but in terms of art and audio generally very similar to (small gameplay update, not full VGU).


Azir update almost certainly in 7.19

Azir's changes have continued to test well so we're pretty confident they'll be in 7.19. They don't involve replacing any of his abilities, so sit somewhere between a really heavy balance/tuning pass and a small update. As previously mentioned a lot of the focus to the update is reducing his ranges to create better counterplay and more risk taking, then putting power elsewhere. We've read through a fair bit of feedback from some people who feel that's the less thematic fit for an emperor, and understand where that's coming from, but feel that leaving his range as is and instead removing mobility both fails to fix needed issues and leads to a flatter playstyle, hence this direciton.


Le Blanc update's quite a while away

Not too much new to say here, mentioning it though since it's a topic that seems to get raised constantly and figure it's better to talk about it visibly here rather than less visibly in the replies every single time. Le Blanc's update hasn't hit a good point yet, so it's going to be quite a while before it's out - she's got a lot of problems that need to be solved, with the core being desire to do assassin things without taking assassin risks. Extremely unlikely it'll be before pre-season (November) at an absolute minimum, more likely sometime next year. We don't have any current plans for balance changes to her between now and whenever the update comes out, though if circumstances change (e.g. if new Runes make her dramatically weaker or stronger) we'd reassess that of course.

213 Comments

EROTIC RAID BOSS9/1/2017, 5:07:02 PM15 votes

Hey Meddler, what do you think about doing a VO pass on how taunts are used? right now a lot of 'lore' taunts never get heard in game because you just don't usually use taunts in the heat of battle. But newer champions and skins have lines play automatically when attacking other champions, or killing them, or even just spawning in game vs each other or walking into lane near each other (ie dawnbringer riven and nightbringer yasuo, Camille)

just as an example, currently these are some Azir lines

"You are but a grain of sand, Xerath." "Emperors have no rivals, Xerath. Only liabilities." "Xerath, it is time your spark went out." "You have already failed, Xerath. You must now accept it." "Traitor, I cast you to the winds." "You are but my shadow, Xerath." "Xerath, the time of your judgment has come."

and these are some Xerath lines

"Azir, at long last, we will see what power you truly possess." "You are emperor of a wasteland, Azir." "Azir, the boy destined to chase the sun." "This time, Azir, I will need no surprise to topple you."

But these are only activated by using the taunt key so close to the other champion that they're probably like, too close to each other for their usual long range combat lol.

Imagine if it was more like, spawning in game vs each other, and hearing each others lines

"Xerath, the time of your judgment has come." "This time, Azir, I will need no surprise to topple you."

meeting in lane

"Xerath, it is time your spark went out." "This time, Azir, I will need no surprise to topple you."

Azir kills Xerath

"Traitor, I cast you to the winds."

Azir damages Xerath

"Emperors have no rivals, Xerath. Only liabilities." "You are but my shadow, Xerath."

Xerath damages Azir

"You are emperor of a wasteland, Azir."

Xerath kills Azir

play a laugh line

or whatever. I picked these 2 because I think they're a good example of how much more epic these voice lines could be just by adjusting how they activate, but it applies to any champion that was made before Camille but has a healthy amount of taunts for different characters. you can also apply general taunts to kills/fighting.

edit: I also enjoy the new voice overs for lux and maokai and I think we'd get more mileage out of them with an approach like above... and if you happen to be bringing in voice actors for legendary skins or something like you did with lux it might not be a bad time to look at the classic vo. basically I hope you don't discontinue them completely.

Master Yi Bot9/1/2017, 5:38:31 PM10 votes

Hi Meddler, when is the last time you had a look at MasterYi ?

Can we expect some small buffs to item 1419 or MasterYi in general?

I'm having a very difficult time for the first time in 4 seasons to win with MasterYi

I'm useless before finishing bloodrazor, if i get invaded pre level 6 my clear early become very difficult too. Cooldown on abilities are extremely high, especially with the Highlander nerfs, low duration and get outrun easily from most of the champions.

Pretty sure you know about this, any plan for buffs soon?

TNing of Pine9/1/2017, 4:48:23 PM9 votes

Not sure if this is in your domain or not - I sort of get the feeling it's not quite in anyone's domain so it languishes ignored - but are there any plans to work on the bots used in Coop vs AI games? Quite apart from the glaring bugs that come when bots don't know their champ's been reworked (like Ryze who thinks his ult does something completely different and therefore it's a good idea to ult straight into an enemy tower), it'd be really nice if it AI games gave some kind of realistic preparation for PvP. Bots that knew how to work as a team, play the jungle role, gank, contest objectives, use vision, etc, would make it a lot easier for newcomers to learn the game properly, and it'd also be nice for more advanced players who want to play a game that's lower-stress than PvP without being a completely mindless guaranteed 20 minute stomp for the human team.

Linna Excel9/1/2017, 4:43:27 PM9 votes

Meddler, how do you guys feel about Ahri? Her winrate is dropping a bit lately. Is she in a good spot?

Have you guys tried using something like Vocaloid for Voice Overs? If you could get the sound library down pat, you'd never have to hire an actor for that particular character again.

As for the gameplay patch system, why not just work on larger issues until they are done? I guess that's a vote for a change over.

CyberBalt9/1/2017, 5:41:30 PM8 votes

One of the biggest possible benefits there is that that would allow us to spend more time on longer term fixes for things

If that's the case, then I would completely support this. I assume by long term fixes, you mean stuff like making juggernauts/bruisers viable in ALL elos, or increasing an ADCs feeling of control (as in, not getting constantly 4 man ganked) while also making them no longer the only class to be played bot lane. If that's not really the type of long-term fixes you meant, I would love to hear some clarification.

Also, thank you for making these posts.

TripleBBB9/1/2017, 11:17:20 PM5 votes

Any news on the Evelynn rework? What patch is she most likely to be released in and can we expect a teaser soon?

SecondComing9/1/2017, 5:22:25 PM5 votes

Hello good sir @Meddler

I'd really like to hear your thoughts on some champs

  1. Quinn ADC is currently her worst role (many people say that, among them Challenger players) and to no surprise. E works well if you're an assassin but not that well for an adc who wants to stay safe and use basic attacks(it works that way if you use it at melee range which you shouldn't be in the first place). Same with ult (mobility is nice but the other parts not that much; at least made more sense when it functioned like an execute). Don't you think this translates to design and/or update (during the marksman update) failure? Not bashing, just expressing. Wouldn't she need work (big or smaller) at some point to cement whether she should be classified as adc or not?

  2. Malphite Would you say he could use a VGU? I'd think so.

  3. Vi You've been kind with her recently and I'm grateful for that. Do you think she could use some more small buffs and/or quality of life changes in order for her to be pushed into pro play material?

Glad you brought champion VO up. Imho, it's really a shame and unfair that some champs barely have 10 lines or less altogether and the only way for them to get new/expanded VO is via a skin (legendary/ultimate most of the time) that not all of the players can access while newer ones have 6-7 lines for the same thing, just different tone/accent/punctuation. For example, during Burning Tides, Gangplank got an insanely large new VO, both basic and in his Captain skin while MF MissFortune nothing to reflect that big story she went through (not even a specific taunt towards GP feelsbad). Many people call her bimbo with guns which isn't the case- at least, not anymore. I understand that it can be hard if you want to do everything with the original voice actor(s) but technology allows for some great facilitations nowadays. For example, with some sound editing, I believe you could make new lines sound as close to the source material as possible (even the exact same).

For the change to how patches come, I don't mind, so long as you said tackle problems quickly (for example, if we get something like release Camille or post rework Malz/Morde straight from the oven). On the other hand, large patches don't need to be that frequent- especially if they're XL, they can confuse people that it's pre/mid season all over again lol.

And finally, here's an idea for an Inspiration keystone

Feels Good to Share: Target enemy Champion. All of current debuffs you have get transferred to the target and all of target's current buffs are transferred to you for the duration (maybe make it have really small range so it won't be that much stronger on ranged champs).

Pewpewqchew9/1/2017, 4:57:20 PM4 votes

Hey, since this is a bit controversial and gets downvoted on reddit and on the forums since it's related to Yasuo i decided to post here. Could he get the Lee Sin wardhop treatment that was done a while back? Just a little QoL change to make him smoother in high ping environments, this could also be done to many other champions.

For anyone who doesn't know, Lee can now cast his W while using a ward. I was thinking of allowing him to E while he's dashing.

Guttler9/2/2017, 5:02:17 AM4 votes

I'm a little concerned about the big vs small patches. I trust y'all with game balance and I don't want a situation in which my games are not fun because of some development, but you wont be able to touch it for a long time due to it needing to be in a big patch vs a small one.

dreadnoughtus019/1/2017, 5:54:37 PM4 votes

Any chance you could give Karma a small buff before her rework? She seems to be doing worse than Ryze and Azir in Solo Q.

44% support and 42% mid respectively (Champion.gg).

Maybe not to her E since the shield meta is problematic right now, but maybe to her poke or w? Just something to help her out a bit and so she's not as, or what seems like, a handicap to your team.

DeathBurst9/1/2017, 4:54:18 PM4 votes
  1. Tweaking VO sounds very far from Live Gameplay's workload. What triggered you to post this part?
  2. About Big vs Small patches, I'm not sure I really understand what you mean. Especially, what would be the delay between two small patches versus the delay between two big patches? Would the two type of patches advance in parallel?
Glîtchy9/1/2017, 4:40:46 PM3 votes

Quick question, will you be improving voices for Ahri, Anivia, Traditional Trundle, and Lux's laugh? Cause Lux's laugh is an ENTIRELY different voice from her actual quotes.

GirlsAlwaysSupp9/1/2017, 5:09:51 PM3 votes

Can you give some details about Azir ? I.e. where is the lost power put into?

Shadow Sketches9/1/2017, 5:36:18 PM3 votes

Meddler, any plans for Wukong? He's been in a bad state for a long time now and has been ignored for most of that time. He's long past due a much needed rework. Any plans for reworking him after Xin, and in the mean time give him some minor buffs to him during pre-season at least. At least making his jungle clear not absolutely terrible since jungle is the only role he can really shine without being dumpstered on, dying on the first clear being a very real threat to him for litteraly no reason.

Kayn has bonus dmg to monsters on his q, why not give Wu the same thing. Maybe making it so his e does more to camps in order to help his clear which he majorly needs.

Qiyana is SO HOT9/1/2017, 5:41:56 PM3 votes

Meddler with preseason rapidly approaching is there possibly any plans to look again at AP vs AD itemization? Primary concerns are items like item 3089 not being worth the cost and the ease in being able to itemize vs AP as opposed to being able to itemize vs AD. Examples being the power difference between item 3155 and item 3191 and how item 3157 is really ap users (mages and ap assassins) only defense vs the abundance of AD users right now. Is this something you guys have at least talked about?

250ssc9/2/2017, 4:50:14 AM2 votes

when is Yasuo change going to happen?

Hungry Cancer9/4/2017, 1:33:22 AM2 votes

As far as the patches go why don't you just fix what needs to be fixed when it needs to be fixed as opposed to focusing on keeping to a particular size of patch for whatever reason? It just seems like common sense that if something needs to be patched, such as a balance issue, then you would want to go ahead and deal with it at the soonest possible convenience and even do it mid-patch if necessary. I'd hate to see either end of the spectrum where something isn't fixed for a few patch cycles because you're waiting for a particular sized patch, or things being adjusted that really don't need it just to make a patch bigger. I've personally really liked the mid-patch updates that you have been doing lately because they fix a problem when it needs to be fixed as opposed to forcing us to wait 2 weeks to see if something in need of fixing is going to find its way into the patch this time around.

Mr Boom Bang9/1/2017, 9:41:29 PM1 votes

is it possible to rewind Leblanc back to her original state before her update???

Ahris9/1/2017, 9:11:34 PM1 votes

Will we be seeing any apc item rework? Current itemization seems very bland, like especially deathcap being very hard to make, making a cheaper and weaker version of deathcap like:

Mage's Cap:

60 ap Unique passive: +20% ap

^ this can be a good replacement for amplifying totem and blasting wand. Making it build from blasting wand and amplifying totem + some gold . This will make it so that the ridiculous build path of rabadons feel somewhat worth building for. Thanks!