Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 17

RiotMeddler·10/17/2018, 3:50:10 PM·1 votes·142,160 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Second Test Run for Nexus Blitz

For anyone who missed it we put up an article recently talking about what's next for Nexus Blitz. Short version is:

  • Nexus Blitz found an audience of players who really liked it, size of that audience was smaller than we'd been hoping for though, so we're not making it permanent, at least not yet.
  • We'll be bringing it back for a second test run in 8.24, so it'll be available throughout the holiday period at the end of the year. We'll then assess what should happen next with it after that.
  • We'll be acting on a lot of different types of feedback received, with changes including adding bans, revisions to events/rewards, clarity improvements etc.

https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2018/10/dev-up-next-for-nexus-blitz/


Why we're not planning to have flat pen/lethality in Rune Stats

Come preseason we'll be making it so instead of getting stats based off your choice of Rune styles you'll instead be able to pick a few choices of stat directly. One question I wanted to talk about there was why we're not planning on having flat pen/lethality be an available stat there. They're stats you could get in the old runes system and we do see requests for it to be offered fairly regularly.

Primary reasons:

  • Flat pen offers a larger damage increase to squishy targets than to tanky targets, in contrast to AD/AP which are more neutral. We're not looking to increase damage to squishies specifically.
  • Itemization has been balanced around the removal of most flat pen from pregame. Adding it back in would mean another pass on Sorc Shoes, Lethality items etc to get to a similar end spot. Disruption versus benefit doesn't seem worth it.

Secondary reasons:

  • Keeping number of stats lower leads to a easier and cleaner UI
  • Understanding whether flat pen or AP/AD will provide more damage is often a really mathy choice, rather than a clearer trade off.

State of Ezreal

Now that his update's been out for a little while wanted to share a few thoughts on Ezreal:

  • His AD build's performing pretty solidly, particularly given the amount his play rate's shot up, which tends to depress performance for a while as less experienced players get on a champ. We estimate that build's in a spot where it's balanced, or possibly slightly strong long term once this players have more experience with the kit changes.
  • His AP by contrast's looking weaker than it was pre update.
  • We're looking at buffing his W rank up damage as a result, given AD Ezreal maxes that last and AP Ezreal maxes it first or second. That will likely be in 8.22.
  • We're avoiding putting more power into AP ratios because we're already seeing the double tear builds be pretty powerful and giving him more value for AP pushes all his builds towards double tear as the way to go, removing variety.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

183 Comments

ModThe Djinn10/17/2018, 4:08:09 PM40 votes

Odd question, but one I've never managed to get an answer for:

Have you ever considered using Rapidfire Cannon's range-indicating tech to display changing auto-attack ranges on champions like Twitch, Tristana, and Kayle? I know one of my longest QoL wants in League is the ability to toggle on a persistent auto-attack range indicator for Marksmen, and it seems like it would at least increase the feel of abilities like this, where much of the appreciable power comes from the value of the range increase -- something that is often invisible.

Thoughts?

Winterkill10/17/2018, 5:52:43 PM10 votes

The Mini-Rework for Karma is not addressing the plethora of issues that have yet to be addressed. I'm not trying to point fingers Meddler but it is nearing the end of 2018. In 2013 this champion received a VGU that didn't meet the mark and didn't solve her original problems. It took this Development team 5 years to give her a rework that was supposed to address just one of her issues that continues to be swept under a rug.

I don't care about new players. I don't care about old players. It's getting to the point that not matter what people want done, you don't do anything. I don't want to have to go over all of her problems again but I feel like I have to constantly do this because almost all of you live in this delusional world that the VGU 5 years ago was successful.

  1. Still no identity. The scope of this rework, admitted by your Development team, was QOL changes and giving Karma a new W and Mantra W. From the looks of the spoilers, it doesn't look like her gameplay identity has been worked on at all. The entire point of her VGU 5 years ago was to give her a gameplay identity and new thematic. You didn't succeed with any of that and this rework could have been a perfect opportunity to do that.

Karma mains wanted her fans back, a new passive, Mantra Q to new be blocked by minions, an ally function with Mantra W, and shield bomb back. None of that is happening on Karma from the looks of it. Karma is getting a new Mantra W that functions the same but it "will help her jungling".

  1. You still have yet to give her a running and shield casting animations, fix her animations, give her better VO, give the champion original taunts that isn't on another champion, and you know . . . give us an actual VU that isn't rushed and constantly ignored.

  2. There is nothing unique about this champion and everything that was unique was purposely removed from your Development team, so new champions can get the limelight. What did LoL players say was an iconic thing about Karma? Her fans and shield bomb. WAIT!? She doesn't have that anymore.

Remember though, you made Karma players wait an entire year to get a new Mantra W that isn't addressing the sizable amount of issues that you created and continue to ignore, Meddler. What did this rework accomplish that fixes Karma's identity, art problems, thematic and gameplay issues? It doesn't because you want to cater to new players and blatantly ignore the community that helped build your game up and supported you. You are literally giving every old Karma main a huge middle finger when you priotrize work on Ezreal and you do 7 plus reworks/VGU on Ryze, when you are blatantly ignoring champions that you screwed up on.

So what is going to be so successful about this Karma update that you think is going to make people think she is a better champion? You are not even tackling one of her problems that YOU created and refuse to rectify.

VeXuM10/17/2018, 3:59:09 PM9 votes

Any thoughts on making Essence Reaver a crit item again, and having it share a unique passive with IE to avoid the huge crit multiplier? Also Kha Zix and Lucian seem very strong atm for solo q, any thoughts on them?

Rmlthl10/17/2018, 3:56:26 PM8 votes

I have only one question for you - Are there going to be changes towards Essence Reaver? The item itself is extremely cost efficient as it is right now, it will get even better once you reduce the price and we aren't even counting the passive ability you get. But the problem is it was designed with ADCs in mind (such as Xayah, Kai'Sa and so on) but right now it is nothing more than a luxury item for them and it is rarely getting picked into higher levels of gameplay (where it should matter). Ironically enough it is being abused by Lucian and severa other fighters such as Nasus, Jax or Riven who have no reason to do so.

AP Ezreal10/17/2018, 6:10:23 PM8 votes

Hi Meddler,

I'm sure you can guess by my name what I'm here for. I really don't think that a W base damage per rank buff is the way to go on buffing AP Ezreal. I think rather than ranting in a solid paragraph it'd be easier if I bullet point my thoughts on this.

  • W is never maxed 2nd on AP Ezreal. It's first or last. E is too important. A buff like this kills Q max AP Ezreal, which currently is more viable than W max and is predominantly what I find success with (and what I have found success with for years).

  • Q currently doesn't have a high enough AP ratio for Ezreal to one-shot caster minions with Sheen and Luden's Echo. I've always been able to do this with Q max AP until now, and considering that AD Ezreal has bad waveclear, and AP has even worse clear, this is a bit of a nuisance.

  • You seem cautious to buff AP ratios due to the effect it'd have on incentivising the double tear build. Why not just kill the double tear build? It doesn't seem like something that was intended, and it doesn't seem like something that can ever be considered "healthy". I understand that you probably want more build diversity for Ezreal, but it sucks that AP Ezreal will never receive a ratio buff simply because you want this single item to be available to AD Ezreal players that already have very solid build options without it.

  • It's a smaller point, but buffing W base damage does still add to the power of AD Ezreal, if only at later ranks where Ezreal should fall off anyway. Additionally, when you're building AP, I don't really think that more W damage would be a good choice considering how much damage you already do it objectives with it.

  • W in lane currently has one issue, and that's that for a lot of the time you'll be burning E to proc it as minions will block your Q and you don't get the mana refund by auto-attacking the mark. Placing more damage into W and incentivising a play style where the following applies A). You can't control your wave because you have no Q base damage and the ratio has been nerfed B). You're dealing all of your damage in a single hit, as rank 1 Q is negligible C). You're in the shortest lane and in order to get off your main damage you have to burn your safety spell. Personally, this seems unhealthy for the Ezreal player (Has an extremely risky damage combo that he is completely reliant on when a wave is present, which will be more often as he can't clear the wave with rank 1 Q) and for the enemy (they get hit for ridiculous amounts of damage in a single proc).

tl;dr Stop double tear builds and give me an ap ratio buff on Q, just 10% would do :) xoxo

I really hope you reply to this with your thoughts, and I sincerely hope you consider my alternative, or seek out a different buff.

IxtaliKing10/17/2018, 3:54:46 PM8 votes

Any news on Karma's mini GU?

Spideraxe10/17/2018, 3:55:27 PM6 votes

Oh yeah any plans for Rageblade or Edge of Night since Captain Gameplay said you guys might look into them this preseason

Vekkna10/17/2018, 9:12:37 PM5 votes

•Understanding whether flat pen or AP/AD will provide more damage is often a really mathy choice, rather than a clearer trade off.

Check out this conversation from a year ago:

https://twitter.com/RiotRepertoir/status/932814895510257665

Me: The problem is that we have pen-reliant mages without enough pen to preserve 7.21 power curves. 45% of the game's flat pen was just deleted from the game without any good reason. The design question is whether these mages should be less reliant on pen since the pen doesn't exist.

Rep: They should probably just be less reliant moving forward, since we don't anticipate adding any flat pen back in. As such, if there are champions suffering on account of lack of pen (Zyra, Brand, etc.), we should just adjust those champions.

Look at the changelogs for Brand and Zyra. Every damage change to Zyra since 6.14 and Brand since 6.9 has increased their pen reliance rather than decreased it. So what gives?

To be absolutely clear, I'm not saying they need more damage. I'm saying that Riot shouldn't be making champions rely on tons of pen, deny them the stat they need, then continue to double-down on the pen reliance.

If you aren't supporting these designs through pen itemization, these champs' power curves become disproportionately dependent on enemy MR. On the flipside, pen math makes it hard to judge their relative power, and unexpectedly high damage makes them feel cheap and frustrating to play against.

I wish we could just get pen-stackers rebalanced to a point where they don't need a tuning pass with every pen/resist change. 7.24 and 8.1 are good evidence that it's not sustainable.

Dısdaın10/18/2018, 9:53:26 PM5 votes

Remove item 3147 from the game. Revert lethality back to flat armorpen.

FlufyBunnyRengar10/17/2018, 3:57:51 PM5 votes

Could you give some power back to Rumble Jungle?

limebuster10/17/2018, 4:22:56 PM5 votes

opinion on lux rn? i think shes ok at lower elos but once you get higher shes pretty garbage against most picks, id love if you guys changed her w or added some extra effect to the shield :)

i got big sad10/17/2018, 4:25:54 PM5 votes

Hey Meddler, Posting this again as it seems to escaping you. Just wondering if there are any balance plans for Zac in the future. He's been in a really rough spot since about March and could definitely use the boost. I believe he's been sitting between a 45 and 47% winrate quite consistently. Thanks for any reply.

BadgerDrool10/17/2018, 7:53:33 PM4 votes

Any thoughts on reworked Nunu's current state? He's been a bit overshadowed with worlds and other balance concerns. His pickrates pretty low.

TALENTED TOPLANE10/17/2018, 4:10:21 PM4 votes

Meddler, why no nerfs to Kassadin?

T8 Speedwagon10/17/2018, 3:59:54 PM4 votes

Wanted to say thanks for the buffs on Elise from few weeks ago. It's much more relaxing clearing jungle. Wanted to know how she ended in terms of balance after the buffs and if you have any plans for her in the (near) future.

RoughBustino10/17/2018, 4:12:55 PM4 votes

Any changes for Zilean passive? It’s really clunky and hard to use.

Gosh Darn10/17/2018, 7:30:27 PM4 votes

Just make the tear items exclusive like the hydra items or disable a passive like Athene's disables Mikael's. No other champion does double tear so if you want to keep double tear Ez from being strong just make it impossible or not optimal.

Spideraxe10/17/2018, 3:53:28 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler can i ask why the Pyke changes were pulled? Are you guys looking into another changelist

Old Man Riven10/17/2018, 3:57:13 PM3 votes

Any new thoughts on the Fighter items coming in this preseason? Deadline is coming up I am guessing.

tyrone martins10/17/2018, 10:16:54 PM3 votes

When will you fix the Shaco stormrazor bug?

Kowe The Ewok10/18/2018, 9:44:28 AM3 votes

Any news on Corki? You said a while ago that you were looking to give him some love. Then the whole project went radio silent :/

PapaGreg2110/18/2018, 9:09:53 PM3 votes

Is jungle diversity being looked at? It has been a mess since scuttle changes and I see Graves/Lee Sin or a couple of other junglers almost every game. The tank junglers are almost non-existent it seems.

Final Raid Boss10/18/2018, 9:12:05 PM3 votes

Why are changes so few currently? Anything for Zac?

Stars Shaper10/18/2018, 7:56:02 AM2 votes

Can we get some light on the Aurelion Sol HP nerf?

If you didn't want him to survive the burst then you could have kept item 3030 as our core item instead of forcing us into item 3027.

PoItron10/19/2018, 9:04:25 AM2 votes

Can we revert shaco, this current one is nothing more than a low elo solo q stomper. Also he has so manyyy bugs.

Khristophoros10/19/2018, 1:55:24 PM2 votes

RE Ezreal: I don't understand what skill order has to do with AP or AD. The ratios do not scale by skill rank.

I always maxed W second regardless of AD or AP because it's safer damage than E. I always maxed Q first because it's more consistent damage. All we're talking about here are the base damages and cooldowns. And yes I know you could buy penetration, but Ezreal doesn't do that.

Personally I see no compelling reason to go AP on him. Either way he has a strong Q because he's gonna get some kind of Spellblade item. AD just gets a lot more utility to go with it and also Muramana for higher damage late game. Speaking of which, why does Muramana still exist?

RekSai CoffeeCo10/20/2018, 10:54:44 AM2 votes

Thanks for letting everyone know there is no reason to log in till patch 8.24.

Ragnaveil10/19/2018, 2:57:42 PM1 votes

Hey, any chance Vik might receive nerfs? He's currently 53% in top with almost 7% pickrate. http://na.op.gg/champion/viktor/statistics/top If you (doesn't have to be all of these, but they are in order of importance) remove the mana ratio from Q, revert the recent buff to his Ms buff on upgraded Q, lower the base damage on Q (lazer auto), and maybe up the mana cost it might send him back to midlane where he belongs, then can buff him for his midlane play (or dont and wait till he just becomes meta in the right way, instead of this current abomination). The cost lowering for his first upgrade was a buff to his mid, but the enabler to make his toplane play strong along with other buffs he got. I don't want the cost stuff to be reverted, but his Q needs to be peppered with nerfs to make it not an insta win in toplane.