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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 14

RiotMeddler·11/14/2018, 4:27:24 PM·1 votes·156,309 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

Updated Run Animations

We've currently got some work underway to improve the run animation of some of our older champions. We're targeting champs who either aren't in need of a full VGU or aren't likely to get one in the immediate future. Walk/Run anims are being focused on here since they're played more than any other animations, so you generally get the largest improvement in overall feel for a single animation upgrade.

With the new anims we're looking to further convey the personality and character of a champion. We're also prioritizing keeping the essence of what's iconic though and looking to build on it, make sure people playing these champs still relate to movements they know and love. In some cases we'll also be using both new and old animations in different contexts (e.g. old anim as regular run new as haste run, new anim while a specific ability is active, new anim as pre boots run etc).

Compilation of the proposed new runs done so far below. We're still working on these, so it's an ideal time for feedback, whether here, on Twitter, the various LoL art forums or wherever. Still a little while off shipping them, will likely get them onto the PBE for an extended period soon though so you can also get hands on experience with them if desired.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9256uqY-kNM

End of the Ranked Season

The 2018 ranked season has just come to an end. Hope it treated you well if you took part! As you've probably seen we've got a range of changes planned for ranked in 2019. Couple of recent videos talking about a lot of that for anyone that missed them:

New Tiers and Changes to Placements:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxt2Z4hEjwE

Rewards and Ranked Splits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDvRhUyHsKA

Ranked is very much a system we're still working on. We've made a range of changes since we first started talking about this stuff in April and we think we're in a good spot to get the system onto the live servers. We're going to keep iterating on it further though. Feedback on what's working for you and what's not still extremely appreciated as a result, that will help us improve it further.

Regular Balance changes and preseason

When we do larger systemic changes like those in preseasons we see some champs who previously needed balance work end up in a pretty balanced state and others who were previously ok needing changes. As a result we'll be holding off on almost all balance work until we've seen where 8.23 puts champ power levels, then reacting to the new state of things. 8.23 will be a light patch balance wise as a result.

295 Comments

ModThe Djinn11/14/2018, 7:51:28 PM26 votes

Most of these walk animations are completely on point.

I'd like to talk about Fiora though. The animation that the video ends with (as a walking animation) is perfect. Poised, in a fencing stance (an upright variant closer to the posture you use when saluting an opponent, but still), and appropriate. The running animation, however, needs a second set of eyes. As a fencer myself, that sort of bouncing motion is anathema to what you want to do -- you want to stay as level an in control as possible in most situations.

Now, I know Fiora isn't a traditional fencer (she lacks the standard stance and forward/backward walk, favoring a more upright, cross-step focused position), but I'm positive that no expert swordswoman would have that sort of bounce to her run while still trying to keep her blade level at an opponent. About the only time you'd run blade-forward is if you're doing a fleche attack, and that's typically rather close range.

I really think that, if Fiora's running and not in combat or in a dueling stance, that blade may need to drop, and that cross-step should change to normal running. A dueling stance is intended for fighting, not for covering long distances quickly, and I think Fiora would realize that you can't really run with a full blade extension and expect it to work out for you, nor use a cross-step (intended to cover longer distances but still within reasonable range) for extended movement.

RiotMeddler11/14/2018, 5:09:16 PM25 votes

Won't be commenting much at all on balance questions like 'what do you think about X?' or 'how about some love for Y?' today. As above, in pretty much all cases we'll see where preseason lands, then assess again.

Emo Twink11/14/2018, 4:31:03 PM23 votes

meddler, I jst found out i got into nursing! are you proud of me?

GoLéon11/14/2018, 4:39:44 PM12 votes

Hey Medler,

will there be any work done to Phoenix Udyr this preseason? I think its a great opportunity to give this stance some love after over 2.5 years.

ADCs is EZ Clap11/14/2018, 4:35:19 PM9 votes

Oof that Fiora makes her look even more stiff than before

Winterkill11/14/2018, 8:16:50 PM9 votes

Karma

Meddler, I still cannot believe all of you think this rework is going to be a successful approach to Karma. You are really going through with this rework, aren't you? Karma's new rework is exactly the same problems her VGU/relaunch accomplished and that is half completed and poorly thought out. The relaunch/VGU 5 years ago didn't solve any of Karma's problems and the rework was a great excuse to actually tackle that. I do not understand how and why you think this kit is a successful approach to Karma when she has hardly any skill expression, is unique in herself, and gives her a gameplay identity. These changes just further the distance between Karma being a unique and better champion to one that is overpowered with number buffs and powerful Mantra. The point of a gameplay identity and unique abilities is to offer players a specific playstyle with that champion. Karma's Mantra abilities are enhanced basic abilities that lack really any uniqueness. Half of Karma's abilities and Manta abilities exist on other champions and item actives.

Giving Karma the new Mantra W mechanic doesn't fit her thematically and suits a champion like Zilean more. You have tried reworks like this on other champions where you give them one overpowered mechanic in their kit and buff their damage, to have that champion be dumpster into oblivion because you are not actually addressing their problems. What are you doing to add more skill expression and a gameplay identity by front loading more damage into Karma's only blocked damage move? What are you doing to add more skill expression and gameplay identity to a new ally mechanic with Mantra W that benefits a Mage, when that is actually the only new concept on Karma in the rework? What are you doing to add more skill expression to Mantra E so that is doesn't promote Karma to sit in the backline and shield, but also have the ability be unique that doesn't exist already on another champion or item active?

I'm tired of hearing about how this is just something small to hold her over when you can work on her. I am tired of hearing about how Developers will rework her abilities in the moderate future. I am tired of being promised a revert but get a rework that is one sided towards new Karma players and Support. I am tied of seeing a champion with nothing unique on her and only gets rehashed abilities from champions that were removed for a reason. You have literally tried everything possible on this kit with numbers buff, increase strength on Mantra, increasing CC, reworking certain abilities, and more. THE KIT IS NOT WORKING MEDDLER AND THE PROBLEM IS SHE HAS NO SKILL EXPRESSION IN HER MANTRA OR A GAMEPLAY IDENTITY. For the past 5 years you guys have done nothing but give us false promises and take everything away. Everything you have literally done is cater to one player. There are mage and old Karma mains and they are being neglected. I don't care how much power you put into her only damage move. Karma's problem was never being able to dish out damage. The problem with Karma has always been her not having enough damage options, skill expression on Mantra or a gameplay identity.

Solve the problems:

  1. Separate Karma's strengths by what she builds. Riot Game Developers created the massive divide between Karma players. There will always be one side whining about how another one is being catered to and you are not tackling the problems. If a Karma player builds Support itemization their ally mechanics and shields/heal will be stronger. If the Karma builds more AP than her damage of Mantra and abilities will be stronger.

  2. Give every single Mantra a mage and support mechanic. Meaning Mantra Q healing explosion that is ground targeted. Remove the healing on Mantra W for more damage but also give her an ally mechanic that can be used on allies. Completely rework the concept of Mantra E and give us a damage component on it (it doesn't have to be shield bomb. It can be something different as long as there is a damage component on it.) You can give us shields that redirect damage back at opponents. You can give us an ability that destroys shields on the battlefield. You can literally do anything on Karma that would be more unique for Karma than a Mantra E that already exists on champions in several capacities and two item actives.

LOOK I GAVE KARMA A GAMEPLAY IDENTITY. It was so hard Meddler. It's basically 2019 Meddler and it will be 6 years since the Kama relaunch/VGU. It is a massive failure on every level. We are not expecting a VGU anytime soon. We expect a work ethic that is at least able to tackle problems with Karma's problems that her original work didn't even improve. It will be 5 years in the making and you still haven't done anything on this champion. Your excuses no longer matter. Your company removed abilities and gameplay identity abilities that made her a better champion and you could have built upon. The functionality of her Mantra and skill expression of her Mantra are being neglected again. You could actually give her a gameplay identity and rework her abilities so that it doesn't cater to one side of the Karma playerbase. You created the divide. The complaining and negative comments are not going to stop until you make an active effort to rectify mistakes. You don't have to bring back Karma's fans, Shield Bomb, clothesline tether or anything else on her. You are supposed to be making the champion better for all players that decide to main her. This rework is not going to do anything other than what the reverted class updates are doing and how you are treating certain champions right now. I don't care. It is 2018 and almost 2019, Meddler. You should be doing a better job. You spent 4 to 5 months on Ahri and Lux. You have given Ryze almost 7 VGU/reworks. You prioritized a mini VGU on Ezreal when you are aware of work that needs to be done on champions like Skarner, Karma, and Morde. I do not understand why you are continuing to be so ignorant about specific champions problems and not actually working on them.

Skorp1on11/14/2018, 4:43:16 PM9 votes

when are we gonna get something for Sivir ? Visual update? (Her skins are sooooo outdated) or maybe some small gameplay changes? Anything really.

giannishannibal11/14/2018, 4:35:02 PM8 votes

Wait you mean that Pantheon and Mundo pizza feet is less important issue to fix than these running annimations? I mean Pantheon and Mundo could use a mini VU till they get reworked and look at the very least 2018 champions not like they came from Pacman era ( in contrast with the newer champions).

Grandel11/14/2018, 4:33:04 PM7 votes

Any news about when the Karma changes will come?

Giani Georgian11/14/2018, 5:46:40 PM7 votes

Meddler, will we see more champions getting VUs in the near future? The majority of the champions that are starting to look old don't necessarily need gameplay changes, but new models, textures and/or splash arts. Is there anyone available to do VUs at the scale of Ezreal's this year or Morgana's?

In my opinion, the champions in need of new models, textures, and/or splash arts (either base or skins) are: Ahri, Anivia, Ashe, Blitzcrank, Brand, Caitlyn, Corki, Dr. Mundo, Fiddlesticks, Gragas, Janna, Jarvan, Jax, Katarina, Kennen, Kog'Maw, LeBlanc, Leona, Lulu, Lux, Malphite, Malzahar, Mordekaiser, Nasus, Nautilus, Nidalee, Nocturne, Olaf, Pantheon, Rammus, Riven, Rumble, Shaco, Shyvana, Singed, Sivir, Soraka, Talon, Teemo, Trundle, Tryndamere, Udyr, Varus, Veigar, Volibear, Wukong, Xin Zhao, Zed, Zilean.

Most of them also need new animations and/or VFX & SFX to match the upgrade.

Peine11/14/2018, 4:57:36 PM6 votes

Are there any plans to update Sakura and Traditional Karma skins separately in this run animation update? There would be just too much clipping. While it may be very stark in contrast, maybe consider adding karma's old run on those skins? (or just traditional) This would make a lot of karma mains happy too while we wait for her update next year <3

Roigaar11/14/2018, 4:36:39 PM6 votes

Meddler, can I ask why you guys are so adamant in changing Celerity once again? You're yet again going to reduce the scope of the rune to be very niche. Why is it a problem that most ADCs spec into this rune? Isn't just changing Celerity to get ADCs off of it ignoring the issue of why ADCs value Celerity highly? Because preseason patch seems like a combination of small changes that yet again nerf the AD Carry class in general and also reduce the viable pool of champions you can play due to the pacing-related changes, at a moment where ADCs don't seem all that powerful compared to sololaners.

The new Celerity doesn't even seem too useful for the champions who would want them, to be honest. I just don't see why the rune is such a problem in you guys' eyes.

La Bello11/14/2018, 6:52:19 PM6 votes

About the Preseaon Video: a few gripes

the RIDICULOUS amount of gold Shyvana managed to gather by level 13? Rabbadon,Void,Sorc,Zhonya and morello all off 10 kills and 150 minions? yeah right

When Diana REFOUGHT the Shyvana at top Ludens went off from Shyvana's E meaning for Some Reason Shyvana purchased a Ludens as a final Item? Why is Shyvana buying Mana items like that?

After Diana dies it shows the scoreboard from SHYVANA's perspective rather than Diana's as its listing ult CD's and whatnot. This means whoever made the video was playing Shyvana not Diana or for some reason both players had been recording to make this cinematic

In the Final cut its a full star guardians team vs a full "cooking" based team and for some reason a RANDOM malphite ult sound happens despite neither team having a malphite.

some other things

Diana going 6 Wits End and killing a already 13% max hp Shyvana doesn't make a lot of Sense. She was already a sneeze away from death. those 6 Wits ends did nothing as she literally just died from the base damage of your Q+R opener and like passive cleave.

Despite the video gloating "Predator Rammus" Lux does not have the PRedator Icon above her head when Rammus rolls in. That was purely Righteous Glory+ Ghost Rammus or something.

The "Summon Aery" jungle Veigar doesn't even have the little aery minion passively circling his model. that was just a random jungle Veigar or something.

When Gnar was headbutting the turret there were scrape marks along the ground from a recent "GNAR!" ult. why was he ulting a minions into a tower? there isnt even a corpse around to signify he recently used it to kill somebody. The guy ulted just to make the champ seem more exciting I guess?

the Sona and Vayne were probably bots. They literally just straight up walked into Amumu and Malphite combos without so much as casting a single spell and SEEING them (as Malph and Amumu came from hitting the tower). This was very clearly a case of intermediate ai bots autopathing down to bot from mid to defend or something.

the level 18 SION is attacking a mid tower that STILL HAS EARLY GAME PROTECTION (you can see the green impact absorbing aura). This dude opened a practice game and ran it down mid to attack the tower for that ONE clip.

anyways yeah. I guess most players wont notice it at a glance but holy shit. Almost none of this is genuine. Whoever made this is a big phony and almost every clip was a product of someone spending 4 minutes in practice mode or a bot match. A lot of these simple things would have taken just 5 seconds to fix (like picking the right rune before loading into the game for the clip). Im assuming this was a pre-meditated script which was writin out beforehand to hype the preseason and this wasn't just a spur of the moment idea someone had that Riot allowed them to upload to the official channel AND translate it to different languages. the fact that such little care was taken with the filming of this is bleh tbh. I expect better from a large company that pays for the best talent. Most of it is nitpipcking yes But it really is not much of an excuse. Its clear this short was someones rushed side project and not carefully crafted masterpiece.

On the Walk cycle changes:

Veigar Veigar is great. Cant wait to bust out my Leprechaun skin.

Leblanc LeBlanc looks kinda weird with the hand on the hip. I dont know if the hand on hip was necessary. feels a bit too over the top. Hopefully she tanks her hand off the hip when standing still otherwise its weird that her hand is just perma attached to her hip 70% of the time. I could get used to it so long as her actual "RUN" animation remained the same this was simply a new low speed walk cycle.

Alistar Alistar looks okay so long as you make sure that he kicks up dust too. Terrain destruction is very important in giving his actions more weight.

Quinn Quinn is great actually.

Viktor Viktor also looks too.. "fabulous" and nonsensical. I actually prefer his current walk or at the least you could have his shoulder hand hold his staff while Viktor himself goes into more of a normal run like what Karma is doing. I dont see viktor as someone so petty as to "stride" like that. he seems much more down to earth and more "to the point" with how people perceive him. He's not guilding himself in gold or adorning his augments in bright fancy crystals. the "im bad and I know it strut " makes no sense imo. This dude understands this is a battlefield not a walkway and he has much bigger fish swimming through his mind than how people are perceiving him. "Ruthless Efficiency". Look at the new walk cycle and ask yourself if that captures "ruthless efficiency". to me it seems like more a cartoony pansy stuck up gentlemen traversing through the "poor" side of town to slap his rival with his glove. Not at all what Viktor is. Cool idea but NOT for this champ.

Fiora the Fiora one is a GODSEND and actually matches the character and her duel style. now if ONLY you could change her AA's too to be more "stabby stab" and less "Swipy swipe". She is using a Rapier not a long sword so its weird that her one "lunge" ability is her Q when lunging and thrust are the primary method for that weapon.

Karma Karma one is great. Actual sprint instead of a trot. so hooray for that.

MY SUGGESTIONS FOR ANIMATIONS THAT NEED TO BE CHANGED NEXT Vayne - Make it more akin to PROJECT animations. Vayne should not simply stand around idling. she should be in a constant "ready" stance and when not investigating the ground for tracks or clues

Caitlyn - Make her animations more like PoolParty especially with how she wields her rifle. And while you are at it give her a GU already. Mini-skirt cop makes no sense. Teemo - the side-to-side waddle is off putting. You could come up with something better.the way teemo moves now almost looks like hes obese. Blitzcrank - the way Blitz just swings his massive fist is almost as hilariously outdated as his duck feet and in-game Zit-eyes.

WindLord707011/14/2018, 5:08:59 PM5 votes

Are there any plans to nerf the really abusive solo laners that are making it really hard for non meta champs to be picked? (sion,urgot,irelia,akali,aatrox) And how do you feel about the int sion strategy and are there any plans to remove it?

Porkys11/14/2018, 5:32:28 PM4 votes

Hey meddler since the addition of being able to ping bounty gold on pbe and kaisa being able to ping her distance of her R

Wouldn’t it be a nice to add a feature where Draven can ping his adoration (passive) and it tells the entire team in chat how much gold his stacks are worth and how much he has instead of waiting every 150 stacks

HavingAGoodChime11/14/2018, 4:31:18 PM4 votes

Can't believe I made it here this early being from the UK but I have a question about pre-season. How are the statblocks in runes different from before you reworked runes last season. Weren't you trying to get rid of stat blocks so things outside of the game would be more accessible to new players?

Kurorade11/14/2018, 4:34:46 PM4 votes

Hey Meddler, in school right now, but I love the new Fiora animation!

Nibbie21711/14/2018, 4:35:19 PM4 votes

Hey meddler, any thoughts on the dorans shield buff? The item is already usually the best/least interactive start especially in top/mid after the timewarp change, feels like its just going to make lanes too safe imo.

Puƒƒin11/14/2018, 6:41:14 PM4 votes

i get the idea behind the fiora animation, you want to give her a fencing stance, however that stance isn't ment for walking like movements, but rather dashing like movements seen here: https://youtu.be/9m4kY_dCDfI?t=51

i personally find it a bit offputting seeing how here body is faced, but here feet are moving. these are not natural movements and visually very jarring.

Hexmage11/15/2018, 4:22:18 PM4 votes

Hi! I have a comment about the Viktor walk animation. I think that it would have been thematic and appropriate for a champion like old Swain, who needed a powerful walk, but for Viktor it just feels odd. No matter what version of the lore you look at, he's a man on a mission to save the world. The vibe his walk animation gives off is a man ready to dominate the world (a la Doctor Doom), which not only makes him feel... evil, I'd say, but too heavy. Viktor's augments are supposed to be superior to normal flesh and blood, but the way he walks in this animation almost feels as if he needs his staff to keep him upright. (Speaking of the staff, it's a little too short to be used in the fashion it's animated for. It's also more of a weapon than a walking aide, so I feel as though Viktor probably wouldn't use it in that way.)

One thing that I noticed in many of the animations (Karma stands out as well) is how much bounce or energy the animator likes to put into walk cycles. This works well for some energetic or silly champions, like Shaco, but it gives the wrong ideas for champions like Karma, Viktor, LeBlanc, and Fiora. In Karma's case, the mantle shouldn't float around as much to the left and right - up and down, perhaps. It just distracts from her as it bobs around. LeBlanc's cross-leg stride looks much more like something you'd see on the runway than the battlefield - she may be a prideful woman who knows exactly what she's capable of, but crossing your legs like that is killer on the hips and your balance. (I'd tone it down, maybe put more sway in the shoulders.) Comments on Fiora have already been made (I agree with The Djinn!), so it's back to Viktor... Viktor has way too much movement in the shoulders. His third arm and, by extension, the pauldron need to remain much steadier especially since he can cast Death Ray while running. If his arm bounces around that much, I doubt his laser would fire in a straight line.

What I'd recommend for the walk animation is something a lot closer to his current one on live. I'd probably shorten the stride, put Viktor's back more upright, and make sure to keep his (dare I say cool, if not iconic?) cape flapping in the wind. Viktor is someone who has augmented himself past the average human, giving him more strength and grace than any flesh-and-blood citizen of Valoran. All I see in the new animation is brutish strength.

Neamean11/14/2018, 6:04:09 PM3 votes

Can we also get an update to Blitzcrank walk and run animation?

Spideraxe11/14/2018, 4:34:10 PM3 votes

Can I also ask about balancing for the new champ since they're coming out on the last patch of the year, do you think that may be a bit risky

Oleandervine11/14/2018, 10:20:26 PM3 votes

Leblanc's right foot, the one with the half dress on it, seems to swing in really far to the left, well past her mid point with this new animation. It feels like it could use some tweaking so it looks more like it hits her middle point.

Stelyar11/15/2018, 1:35:52 AM3 votes

To me, the Fiora animation looks like she's leaning backwards, which seems counter intuitive from a running standpoint. It doesn't look as obvious in game, but from that side model it just looks awkward.

Viktor looks like a Hiker now,.. the staff planting is just very eye catching, and makes him seem a little stiff. I know he's not supposed to be super lively or flexible, but it looks like he's exerting a lot of effort to move around, almost as if he's dragging the rest of his body using the staff as support.

Haru Hikigaya11/15/2018, 4:06:50 AM3 votes

You think there could be a new running animation for Talon ? Its the same on all of his skins besides sacred sword.

ProfDrDeath11/14/2018, 4:45:57 PM2 votes

Movement animations: The only one that looks iffy to me, on first glance, was Veigar. After a bit, I think it is because he now moves his staff as part of the animation, instead of keeping that thing more or less vertical all the time.

Dude76611/15/2018, 7:08:12 AM2 votes

That Alistar animation looks like it would work more with his trample than as his run animation.

aFineWayToGo11/17/2018, 8:17:32 AM2 votes

New Fiora run animation looks cool, but it's just waaayyyy too unnatural. Speaking as Fiora main. I can see it working if it's in combat only or something like that but the old one looks way better if we're talking about just covering distance. However I think giving her separate run animations in different situations is really risky, because Fiora is likely the only champion in the game on whom running around is a huge part of the mechanics (positioning to hit vitals), therefore I'd rather you guys decided to keep the old animations as is, or look for something in between maybe.

PopcornBunni11/15/2018, 5:59:37 PM2 votes

The walk animations look great. Except for Fiora. Her's looks like a shitty prealpha version of an animation that's meant to play during her ult or W. Certianly not on her default walk though.

A smaller criticism is on Shaco. I feel he would look better with his arms drawn more forward throughout the animation. The large swing back makes the stroll look more casual and aloof than playfully sadistic. Keep the same animation but draw the arm bones rotated more forward on every frame.

Slay Z11/15/2018, 12:45:50 AM2 votes

Shaco: Very bouncy, possibly slightly too bouncy. In-game it looks better though than against the gray background. LeBlanc: Very Drag-licious, it's ok but a bit over-the-top. Alistar: It's unique, I like it. It's very different. Fits him but it's very aggressive-looking. It would keep you even more on edge facing him fearing his knock-up. Imagine this walking out of the brush bottom lane. Veigar: Too frolic-y, but I understand why it is. Personally I like the way he hops currently although it does feel a little dated and casting spells can feel awkward when he suddenly stops in place. Quinn: Better, but not much is different here. Viktor: It's very strutty which concerns me a little since Viktor is always dashing in and out of fights, running around and chasing. Idk how it makes sense in the middle of a fight. Seems a little forced. Karma: I can't decide if I like completely new run or if I like old but new when dashing. Fiora: I don't like the way this looks at all, I can't take it seriously. The animation with her arm behind her back is better though.

Zero Punctuation11/15/2018, 9:13:05 PM2 votes

Hello Meddler. Good Afternoon

As Ezreals Vu seemed rather successfull, are there any plans to do the same with Lulu? She seriously needs a VU treatment to look like a Yordle (like Trist and Poppy)