Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 20

RiotMeddler·3/20/2019, 3:44:49 PM·1 votes·168,785 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

Position Preferences

It's been a while since we last talked about some position select data. Had a couple of requests to revisit it recently too so figured it would be a good topic to cover today. Bunch of data and comments below, few overarching takeaways that come to mind for me being:

  • Preference for different roles reflects a mixture of both desire for playstyle and perceived power. We see that role preference change meaningfully for example when ranked turns on/off, when players feel a position has been buffed/nerfed, temporarily when new champs for a position come out etc.
  • Preferences vary a lot between different regions, reflecting different metas and different preferences for different groups of players.
  • Similarly they vary quite a bit by MMR, assumedly reflecting meta and interpretations of power, potentially reflecting desired playstyle IF that's correlated with player skill (the lesser factor from what we've seen)

https://imgur.com/a/J2NZqT7

So, first off, everything together. Most noticeable trends recently are bot preference increasing substantially post crit item changes and season start, support preference going up with season start and jungle/mid trending down somewhat since preseason. Noteworthy order swap there is bot climbing back to second for the first time in a while and jungle dropping from 2nd to 4th.

https://imgur.com/a/FhXvIK9

High MMR has similar, though not identical trends. Top's much less popular comparatively in this context and while jungle's down this year it's still middle of the pack.

https://imgur.com/a/bL1QopU

Looking at Brazil we see a really strong preference for mid lane while top preference is close to all regions high MMR rates.

https://imgur.com/a/fxfz66R

EUNE then has the same high preference for mid, but a much lower preference than most for support, with the other three positions currently in the same spot. That's historically representative with the exception of bot being low post midseason changes last year for a while.

https://imgur.com/a/Jb0CbDY

Korea's not as big on mid at present as those other regions, though players there have been historically. Support interest's much closer to other positions too.

https://imgur.com/a/zBaAO14

NA's then most notable for the degree jungle isn't favored there.

https://imgur.com/a/qSpq4KB

And Vietnam by contrast has a really high jungle preference, even after some recent drop, paired with a very long interest in queueing for support. Desire to queue as bot's also been more volatile than other regions, following the same inflection points but to greater degrees.


A few likely balance targets in 9.7

  • A Lissandra nerf, aimed at pro power especially.
  • Morgana assessment, mid lane specifically. We didn't ship nerfs in 9.6 because we weren't certain enough they were needed. Planning on assessing again shortly, see if that was the right call.
  • A nerf to Dark Seal, which is currently filling both the safe early sustain niche and the supposedly risky snowball niche. Likely that nerf includes a much lower sellback value as a result so it's a more of a gamble to opt into it.
  • Wit's End experimentation, aimed at making it a more relevant item. We're 50/50 on whether we'll ship something still, expect changes to hit PBE at least however.

We'll have some other work in 9.7 as well, those are the projects we're sufficiently confident will be getting some time to talk about right now though.

276 Comments

Rilea3/20/2019, 3:50:45 PM28 votes

When are we getting an update on the Spellthief's/Ancient Coin changes? The hotfix was meant to be a "band-aid solution", and yet nothing has been mentioned or changed since. The current changes feel absolutely awful as a support.

Wagger3/20/2019, 3:49:02 PM21 votes

Swain feels pretty bad at the moment. Any chance we can get his ult nerf reverted since he is no longer played in the bot lane? or maybe some mana buffs.

YL 6663/20/2019, 4:04:16 PM10 votes

Hi Meddler,when the Wukong's changes are likely to go on the PBE? We will see them at least in the 9.8 or 9.9 PBE cycle?

The Iceborn3/20/2019, 3:50:21 PM9 votes

Lissandra nerf? She was already nerfed and aftershock was nerfed aswell... I fear that a new nerf is gonna gut her especially because there was already concerns with her 1v1 power dropping with the new passive...

Deep Terror Nami3/20/2019, 3:51:30 PM8 votes

Do we have a real fix coming to the Support items (read: Spellthief's) to prevent solo laner abuse without screwing over Supports?

PowerOfDrainAge3/20/2019, 4:41:49 PM8 votes

Any thoughts on Syndra?

My personaly Disatisfaction with the champ is she feels like she only has 2 basic abilities. Her W is only there to waveclear, there's no green light u're ever supposed to max it second (as it should be). It's so easy to dodge. TL DR I want her W to gain the 20% bonus from her passive when maxed as Radius alongside with the 20% bonus true dmg.

RoughBustino3/20/2019, 4:10:26 PM8 votes
  • Wit's End experimentation, aimed at making it a more relevant item. We're 50/50 on whether we'll ship something still, expect changes to hit PBE at least however.

So you’ll work on changing Wit’s End but not Ohmwrecker....

Wee Petal3/20/2019, 4:37:58 PM7 votes

Zyra's plants have some buggy interactions this patch with the change that has been made to pets. Changed interactions I know about so far are

Spellthief's Tribute passive: No longer works on plants.

Spellvamp (ravenous hunter/gunblade): now heals full amount on plants (instead of 1/3 effectiveness).

Dark Harvest: Plants no longer trigger.

Conquerer: Plants no longer provide 1 stack towards Conquerer.

Electrocute: 3+ plants no longer trigger, but 2 plants plus 1 other thing (aa/spell) or 1 plant plus 2 other things will.

Currently we're thinking this is unintended (/bug) changes as a result of the pet changes because of just how much the Spellthief change hurts (pls god it hurts so much) but at the same time the aim was to standardise pet interaction as well.

Tàx Collector3/20/2019, 3:51:29 PM7 votes

Any plans forAatrox ?

AIQ3/20/2019, 4:24:12 PM6 votes

Hey Meddler, The crazy  Shyvana main is back. ;)

It's been a few Patches now. Can we have Shyvana scale with elder?

Is it possible to remove the decay on her W, also since AP Shyvana took the W ratio can AD Shyvana gain total AD on it's ratio?

Can we please have her ult cool down work while dead?

Is Shyvanas passive up for a rework potentially before her actual?

Sexy Jack Rabbit3/20/2019, 3:50:06 PM5 votes

Can we get a small update on Akali?

Do you think the hard swing nerfs > Build back up, buff style worked for her and Irelia?

TheStormSurge3/20/2019, 3:52:27 PM5 votes

Any thoughts on the current state of the length? I'm normally not one to complain about short games but the majority feel over by 20-30 minutes. This hurts scaling picks pretty badly imo.

Cameramon3/20/2019, 4:07:24 PM5 votes

Are there still plans to rework crit to not be a form of output randomness which Ghostcrawler outlined as the unhealthy form of randomness that league shouldnt have?

Lakinther3/20/2019, 3:55:40 PM4 votes

Are you guys gonna nerf pyke any time soon? been permabanning that guy since release.

Rγυjιη3/20/2019, 3:50:08 PM4 votes

Still no plans for making Aatrox playable at jung again?

Dawning Wolf3/20/2019, 3:59:58 PM4 votes

How much of mid lane is the most popular because it's the most protagonist carry role and how much of it is because it has the widest variety of viable styles to play there?

Mikkeru3/20/2019, 3:59:41 PM4 votes

Any update on Zelphyr Item that may coming to live servers?

Lord Raphel3/20/2019, 4:04:34 PM4 votes

As a support player, I feel that the community as a whole is not heard, especially after the change of the gold items without any kind of visual signage to who really needs it. It gets complicated to play like this, especially when you see that several people are complaining about the same thing. In addition, there are some support champions who urgently need more affection from Riot, I'm talking for example of Karma and his kit, Morgana and her range, that horrible passive of Soraka, the look of Zilean, etc. This lack of attention ends up causing me, for example, to play with other champions that were not originally thought of as support. I only see efforts by Riot for all the other champions and the support champions are "Esquecidos no churrasco" as we say here in Brazil.

[sg-zephyr]

Darth Rydo3/20/2019, 5:04:32 PM4 votes

I love the data graphs, but I am colorblind and it's impossible to tell the difference? Can we please use more colorblind friendly colors to reveal the data? Thank you very much in advance. - I do very much like nerding out on the information

Linna Excel3/20/2019, 6:00:35 PM4 votes

Meddler my issue with wit's end is that its stats are so weird... AS, MR, magic damage on hit, MR steal on hit. So it wants to go on an on-hit champ but it doesn't give the stats (AD/AP) on hit champs want. I really think it needs to have the MR switched out for a damage stat (or HP/omni vamp) and the MR steal replaced with something else. It's just way too niche as is and is sub optimal far too often.

I mean if you swapped out the MR with 30 AD and 30 AP then at least hybrid champs would have a clear build path of item 3146 item 3124 item 3091 item 3115 item 3153 + boots. Ranged on hit champs would drop one of the last two items for hurricane and hybrid ADCs could drop the other for IE. Junglers could throw bloodrazor in there somewhere.

Zoli Ben3/20/2019, 4:03:31 PM3 votes

Do you think Urgot is overbuffed?

Ellomdian3/20/2019, 6:34:08 PM3 votes

A nerf to Dark Seal, which is currently filling both the safe early sustain niche and the supposedly risky snowball niche.

Well, you opened the door... What is the design justification for the potion passive not being unique?

MasterMYi3/21/2019, 2:47:59 PM3 votes

Hello, meddler, i am a Chinese player, it is so difficult to come here and create a discussion. Although my English is not good enough like local players. However, this article is my painstaking effort, i earnestly request designer and balance team can see and think about this. I spent a lot of time to write this. This article was sent to many website in China, it had many comments and agreements in different websites in China such as bilibili, Baidu post Bar, NGA, Weibo, Zhihu and so on. Clearly, it can represent many ideas of Chinese players. The topic is "Full analysis and advice about the rework of Akail" This is the text:

I am a challenger player on Akali in S6 and S7. I think new Akali is not a successful rework.

Since the new version of Akali came out, it can be said that it was frequently boarded on the LOL Pro League (LPL, LCK and so on) , and general players have followed this. This champion can always appear in "TOP 10 operation show" matches in Pro league. However, in ordinary games, the win rate of Akali haven't higher than 50%, especially in mid line (always in about 45%, and lower than 40% in 9.3).The balanced team nerfed her constantly since she was reworked. Actually, her performance is not actually very showy in Pro league. However, what is the reason that she always can appear in Pro league.

1, Stability advantage on top line, in LPL, most professional player afraid solo killed in the match, once they was solo killed by other professional players, there are many news in each forum and board talking about their performance. Obviously, Akali can suppress most champions on top line, when she get a litter advantage, she can kill other champions continuously. We know Pro leagure is not same as ordinary games, the other line usually do not have the condition like our teammates get 0/5, 0/6. Therefore, this champion can make stable advantage and get continuous pressure in her line before 9.3. This is the first reason why she can appear in Pro league but has low win rate in rank.

2, is the distance between the player in rank and Pro league, this is like the conditon of Azir and Ryze. These two champions is not easy to balance. When you buff them slightly, they will dominate Pro league, however, in ordinary games and ranks, their win rates is really too low. Akali is similar to them. Why? Because the teammates in the pro league is different to ordinary games. I know there is a word "troll" in English. This behavior is much more common in Chinese server. The reworked Akali can not solo carry a game. In the Pro league match, the teammates never troll in any game. Therefore, her advantages can be brought to whole team and “operating”(in Chinese) in a game.

I usually follow the forum of American server, the most views about Akali is "Frustration" on her W. It means the enemy always feel bad because of her W. She can repeat QA QA in her W, and the enemy can not counterattack, even those champions who have directive skills. This makes the experience of enemy become very bad. When they killed Akali, they also feel being played by Akali. This is "Frustration"

However, is this experience to the enemy gives Akali players a good experience?

My answer is "No" "Never"

The reason is so easy, because Akali players can not win the game. Many American players only know about frustration, but they didn't think about the problem that Akali can not win a game.

It is true that her solo kill ability and making "frustration" ability are good. However, she can not win the game even though she killed enemies many times. Why?

1, The first reason is Akali does not have a "snowball" ability which an assassin should have. This snowball is not saying about solo kill on the line, it's the ability that helping team and teammates, then go to win. I know the designer emphasize nerfing Akali's snowball ability when she was reworked. However, new Akali's snowball ability is even weaker than Leblanc, Zed. Well-known, in general rank games, Leblanc and Zed is easy to solo kill on their line, but after they killed their enemies for some times, they still can not win this game. This problem on Akali is more serious, compared with them, her skill R has one of the longest 120 cooldown in league of legend, as an assassin. She don't have a continuous fight ability in the game. After she used her R, she is too foolish to the enemy who know her skill combination. In addition, Her fighting ability is rely on her W. If she does not have W, she always can only "ob" her teammates and enemies fights. I think is not a good mechanism. In her W and QA QA, I don't think this is a good design. It decreases the explosive speed of an assassin and making "frustration" on her enemy.

2, The limited clearing minions ability. The energy cost of Akali's Q is too high, only using two times "Q", her energy will be very low. Except in the advantage condition, Akali's Q even can not kill a long-distance minion. After she cleaning the minions, she does not have any fighting ability because of no energy. Therefore, her solo "cleaning minions" ability is too weak. When she cleaning some minions, she does not have any energy to strike back if other enemy champions come.

3, is the killing speed of an assassin. She always can kill many enemies before 20 min in this game. However, it is useless, in the later game, akali always die in “unknown AOE” because she can not make killing faster. The passive skill of her has high damage, but is relative too slow in later game. This is similar to Leblanc in S7. Her passive is too slow in later game, too. To that Leblanc, i think the designer can reduce the passive time (1.5s) in later time. Maybe 1.5s in lv1, 1s in lv 9, 0.5s in lv 15. Then decrease her damage growth. I think this will be a good adjustment. However, that Leblanc is not exist. I will not talk more suggestions about her. Nevertheless, this ways is not suitable to Akali, because her passive value is not easy to change like reduce circles in later game and move speed. Overall, killing speed is really too important to an assassin in later game. It has a positive correlation to the ability of making chance.

Ok, these three points is the reason why she can not win the game, even though she get lots of kills. (Maybe my expression in English is not very accurate, if you want to know more accurate about this, you can ask professional interpreter to translate my Chinese version, if this article is really useful) So, this is the most failure place i think about the rework of Akali.

New Akali's skill mechanism is really not good. The biggest balance problem is her W, however, not like S6 and S7 Akali, her W decide her whole ability of fights. She only can fight with the enemies when W is not in the cooldown. In addition, why old Akali's W does not have any "Frustration", because when old Akali need to attack enemy, she always appear longer time to attack enemy. In this time, other emenies can use any methods to counter her.

About your buffs on 9.4 or 9.5. I think about this for a long time, it is really not easy to buffs her. such as: reduce her Q energy cost, reduce cool down of R and adding AP suck blood. These changes might change a little bit win rate of her. But her problem is W, if W is too weak, akali will stay on the ground. If W is too strong, she will dominate Pro league and bring "Frustration".

I still think old Akali is better, the biggest reason is she can win the game. Her line and solo kill ability in early game is not really good. But she can get advantage in the group fight in early game. It is true that "smurf" can bring negative experience to lower division rank players, however, this is the problem of "smurfs", not old Akali's players' problems. You should try to reduce the amount of "smurfs". In Master and Chanllager even diamond rank , old Akali is really a balanced champion. Her total win rate is always near to 50%(49%-50%) The players who really have higher skills on her can use distinctive operation to win a game. I don't want you delete this distinctive champion. Her ability is unique and interesting (at least no Frustration on enemy players) She has clear weakness and merits. Please think about adjust back to old Akali. To tell the truth, after the rework of Akali, my gaming time on LOL is decreasing about 70%. I just feel boring when i use new Akali that i can not carry this game due to the reason of "troller". I only can report them after the game and feel annoyed. However, these troll players still always exist in the rank game when i play the game. This is true "Frustration" to me. When i play old Akali, i always have feeling that i can win this game. But now, i only can win the game when my teammates have a good performance (at least not "troll"). I feel really so sad, and now, i can not achieve challenger in the first server in China.

"Maybe one day she will come back along that way, but this will be decided by herself." This is your background story about Akali. When i see this, i feel lacrimal. I am waiting for the day which she can come back... that girl. Akali

This article was translated by myself and the author of Chinese version is me too. Maybe my English translation is not actually good enough, if you think it make sense. Please think about this and let Chinese staffs go to that Chinese website to have a look. I really hope designer and balance team can think about the opinion of players, not only in LOL Pro league matches.

Thanks for your reading! 14/02/2019

Xxxyyy MasterYyyi

I tried to type this many times, just hope you can see this.

True Garen3/23/2019, 9:14:34 PM3 votes

Meddler: Regarding Shyvana -

Please fix her passive to scale with Elder Dragons.

Also,I really think that they neglected to change W scaling to total AD (rather than bonus AD) when they removed the AP scaling from it. (Right? That's how it should work for her...)

And let her Ult recharge while she's dead.

True Garen3/23/2019, 9:16:46 PM3 votes

And Vietnam by contrast has a really high jungle preference,

Smoli Loli3/20/2019, 4:39:17 PM3 votes

Since you have a rework team on mordekaiser now, is there still a second rework team on another champ, or is it down to just one team for reworks?

509607753/20/2019, 6:03:51 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler, any plans on Vladimir? He seems pretty strong at the moment with a pretty high pick rate.

MateusSchulz3/23/2019, 10:57:20 PM2 votes

Hello, anything about tryndamere rework?

Th3 Rift Hero3/23/2019, 9:22:02 PM2 votes

Is there other changes planned for ranked or matchmaking though? Cause as a result of the failed positional rank test on na the matchmaking is pretty messed up in all elos looking at boards and my personal experience.

BigFBear3/23/2019, 3:23:01 AM2 votes

Lol Vietnam favors jungle over everything.

Flashbacks Inc.

Master Chamas3/21/2019, 5:05:41 AM2 votes

Those statistics reveal that jungle actually sucks now. When will jungle become good again? Any buffs to jungle?

Padoµch3/21/2019, 1:32:42 PM2 votes

Hey Meddler, would you consider the option to disable announcer text? Its big and sometimes you cannot see important things because of it like Baron/Dragon HP :).

Thanks