Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 5

RiotMeddler·1/5/2018, 4:23:10 PM·1 votes·92,543 views

Hi all,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Patch 8.1

Happy 2018!

We've been back at work this week and have been looking at what should be in the upcoming patches. Our focus is particularly on what should now be a priority based off how the game played out over the break.

Because of the way patch development works (patches need a lot of testing) patch 8.1 got locked last year just before we went on holiday. That means that, with a few possible exceptions as below, 8.1 will be the same as what was on PBE over the break. Adding stuff this late in the process has the same risk of serious bugs and balance issues as a micropatch/hotfix. We need to be really conservative with both how much we change and the type of things we change as a result. That means we're mainly working on a bunch of stuff for 8.2.

Things that might get added to 8.1 that aren't on PBE: A few high impact bug fixes (e.g. Galio W shield, a bug with Revitalize making people untargetable) Possible Zoe nerfs Possible Sona buff Reducing the amount some of the Kleptomancy gained items sell for

Patch 8.2

Patch 8.2 by contrast has a full development cycle and there's plenty to be worked on. Some of things we're looking at below. This isn't a complete or final list. Some things will get added and some will get removed as we work on the patch.

Runes:

  • Further Klepto work, likely reducing the differences between best and worst case users (nerf the strongest/buff the weakest).
  • Manaflow Band nerf (still reducing need to manage mana too much)

Items

  • Runic Echoes Buff (help AP junglers overall)
  • Assessment of Relic Shield line on non supports (appropriate or abusive?)

Champion Nerfs:

  • Vayne
  • Ezreal (if Klepto changes don't look like enough)
  • Ornn
  • Kha'Zix
  • Malz
  • Zoe (if not nerfing in 8.1 as above, follow up assessment if 8.1 nerfs happen)
  • Blitzcrank

Champion Buffs:

  • Nunu
  • Viktor

We've also got a range of champs we'd like to get to soon but who didn't make the initial cut for our 8.2 planning. They're probable candidates for 8.3 or 8.4, though it's possible some slip into 8.2 still. Trynd and Yi buffs are in that category, as is a Fiddle buff unless the Runic Echoes change helps him enough. We talked about Syndra as well as a possible buff candidate for 8.2, she's got a lot of bug fixes in 8.1 though, some of which are likely to add some power to her, so we'll see where she's at after those.


Game Pacing, Snowball etc

Additionally we'll be taking a look at a range of aspects of game pacing during the 8.2 development cycle (game length, snowball, time to kill etc). Uncertain yet if we'll ship changes during 8.2 aimed at that in particular at time of writing. Identifying balance targets is a quicker process, hence the list above, for a topic like this we need to spend more a bit more time however. More on this next week, well aware it's a topic on a lot of people's minds that's not addressed in much detail here. The thing we'll be looking at first is laning phase and whether that's ending too quickly, with corresponding spread of snowballing across lanes.


Rengar Q changes

As we mentioned in December we're planning on changing Rengar's Q back to an empowered auto attack. Timing on that's not certain yet, it's not fully implemented or tested. There are also a few new assets that will need to be made for his Mecha skin, since that didn't exist back before his Q got changed. Should be early this year, though won't in 8.2 at least. Details on which patch it'll be in and whether there are other accompanying changes to come as soon as we've got them.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

Edit:

Couple of updates worth mentioning since time of writing. We're going to move both the Sona buff and the Klepto item sell amount changes to 8.2, given both are intertwined with the state of Klepto overall. Sona buff currently in testing is a partial revert of the Q mana cost increase from 7.24 (50-70, versus live 60-80 and prior 45-65).

480 Comments

Solari Fortune1/5/2018, 4:38:58 PM26 votes

Could you guys possibly add a buff bar timer for Manaflow Band?

Curious what you guys will be looking at for Sona buffs

Also for the Jinx passive changes that I heard August mention what might those look like?

ßiggie Cheese1/5/2018, 5:21:51 PM26 votes

Ctrl + F: Volibear

0 out of 0

item 3070 Volibear item 3070

Crocodilo Maroto1/5/2018, 4:32:30 PM21 votes

Can we expect Swain's teaser/reveal this month? Its been 3 month since the last roadmap teased him...

BleKz1/5/2018, 4:30:14 PM14 votes

Any news about LeBlanc and ap itemization?

PressRToVictory1/5/2018, 5:55:34 PM11 votes

Hey Meddler, happy new year!

Just wondering but hum... where are Syndra buffs? Syndra I mean she is between 45 and 46% winrate even in higher elo like diamond where she is supposed to shine the most. Don't you think you kinda like over nerfed her this last season? On top of that absolutely no runes fits her (electrocute doesn't fit to syndra's kit with its cooldown, arcane doen't touch when we q-e, only w is a guaranteed comet and aery is absolutely not made for syndra), a lot of bugs will still be there even after the 8.1 fixes incoming. I mean as a Syndra main with almost 1000 games with her i can tell you she almost became a trollpick nowadays. You can't do a single mistake with your placement compared to a xerath who can poke from downtown, you have zero mobility, you have super high mana cost (yeah trust me try to lane as syndra vs an orianna and you'll see the difference on mana cost when the damages aren't that different the same), you have a useless pasive until quite late into the game which you probably won't see because games are just snowablling too hard, you have that nullyfiong orb to shut down syndra's burst and u have really low damage on q now, litteraly lvl 1 an autoattack does as much damage as her q. I think you realize how AD champs are a lot more healty during this preseason than AP ones, not just in the jungle, and syndra is the one suffering the most about this i think alongside Viktor indeed. Please do something about her, it feels really bad not being able to play your favorite champ in ranked because no matter what u lane against, that opponent will always outperform you in every single way possible even if you are ahead. She needs a serious buff.

Sorry for this big post and thank you for taking the time to read me.

NEEKOOO1/5/2018, 4:30:01 PM10 votes

Do you plan about changing Nunu's kit more than buffing him? [zombie-nunu-tears]

Skyroar1/5/2018, 5:11:25 PM8 votes

Also, any updates on AP itemnization? Is that still a thing?

Makos1/5/2018, 5:12:31 PM8 votes

When you address sona, please consider bugfixing her passive. I have made a post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/sonamains/comments/7nvyqk/

Expecting some buffs since bot lane meta really doesn't favor her, she's incredibly squishy, and the mana cost nerf was steep.

pzTeeks1/5/2018, 7:35:50 PM7 votes

Thanks Meddler.

Any thoughts on Caitlyn?

Daddy Ants1/6/2018, 11:23:24 AM7 votes

{quoted}

Champion Nerfs:

  • Vayne

Buff Caitlyn Buff Lucian.

Vayne is back to being a risky pick.

Her win rate only spiked because you guys keep nerfing lane bullies and over buffing runes like Fleet Footwork and Overheal.

I'm also loving how you guys are so quick to nerf Vayne but Tristana and Twitch ruined the entire season 7.

LVL99 Helper TK1/5/2018, 5:56:27 PM7 votes

Hi Riot. Are you going to comment at all about the state bruisers and juggernauts are in? There's no point in playing a bruiser top lane because the best keystones for them are Grasp and Press the attack, neither of which synchronize well enough to result in ANY kills unless you're playing in silver elo. I thought this game was balanced for platinum? Grasp is best on tanks, they can take a dump on any bruiser running PtA, and then tanks are better in team fights, so there's no point in the game where I can actually have player agency if I go Darius top, in high elo. I don't play the game much anymore and i'm just waiting for some quality of life buffs to bruisers. If you hate bruisers, then please delete them all and be done with it.

E Man forever1/6/2018, 7:07:52 PM6 votes

Please don’t give Vayne the Sejuani treatment

Hentai Lewds1/6/2018, 4:24:50 PM6 votes

" vayne nerfs " i literally made popcorn for this .. now lets scroll down :D

DCYOUNG8881/5/2018, 5:46:13 PM5 votes

I'm surprised that Shyvana Shyvana is not on the list for nerfs, is she still planned to get changes this pbe patch?

Posat Tranquil1/5/2018, 4:32:03 PM5 votes

Hi, if you nerf ezreal and vayne, draven-twitch and trsitna will come back to tier can buff jinx little bit pls?, i want to see another time in the meta game and i think she have low scale early..

Sοlo Leveling1/5/2018, 7:21:40 PM5 votes

Vayne winrate with PTA - 51%, with fleet 55% ... Tristana winrate with PTA - 50%, with fleet 53% .. Kog winrate with Lethal/PTA - 50%, with fleet 54% .. yep, the champs are the problem and definitely not the overloaded rune ff with shiv/rfc.

Reformedfindlay1/5/2018, 7:27:41 PM5 votes

Nothing on twitch? meh, I'll take the vayne nerfs at least.

PeachyBubbleStar1/5/2018, 8:57:52 PM5 votes

iv'e commented before asking about upcoming Taliyah skins, but i have a serious question regarding Ahri's current state, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD fix her... she is so weak and feels like half of the champion she used to be... she was perfectly fine and balanced before so i'm not even sure why you guys nerfed her... people always complain if a champion is actually good or useful... Zoe getting nerfs one can only HOPE they don't ruin such a fun champion the only think i'd see reasonable for Zoe nerf is making E a bit of a longer cooldown, probably i'd say 22 seconds at level 1 TOPS since it's her only actual escape ability... and she pops like a balloon, people always complain when champions can actually get kills or something... even though she's a burst mage and was literally MADE to burst your healthbar... also iv'e NEVER actually seen someone go 100 to 0 one shotted by Zoe so idk where people are getting this from... and i play Zoe all the time...most i do is one shot someone at less that 75% health... which is something ALL burst mages can do... it just so happens that people are annoyed that the majority of her damage is settled into just her q which is dumb that people complain about that considering it's her actual only/main source of damage... Zoe is fine IMO aside from her E cd i'd say, but anyways AHRI yes, Ahri is quite bad rn like... She went from being plays almost EVERY MATCH to NEVER being played... and i stopped playing her for a while then went back to try her at one point recently and dear freaking god i was so useless and bad... my damage was literally like chucking pebbles dealing nothing and i was EXTREMELY team reliant EVEN THOUGH i had kills... it was HORRIBLE... that should say something when a champion can go from most popular top played to trash and never played after a nerf... some of these nerfs are getting out of hand and i feel like they're only happening due to whiny bronze players or something that complain so much that riot actually listens to them... ruining a LOT of champs and all of their potential... people who complain make me laugh like when they say champs like Yasuo are bs or broken? when in reality i almost never have problems against a yasuo... Zed can honestly be op sometimes but i TRY to find ways around it... an off example can be Taliyah not being played much at all in low elo and people in low elo say "She's trash and so bad, her damage is bad ugh, garbage they need to buff her" MEANWHILE people in high elo play her literally almost every other game... (surprised she hasn't gotten a new skin yet... i main her) it's pretty funny when on some websites she's like the 3rd most played mid laner in challenger tiers... i'm convinced low elo players don't bother to be good so they just complain til riot does something about it... (Should be trying to get good against Zoe, but instead complains til riot nerfs her) (Says Taliyah is trash and useless, meanwhile she's receiving a an SSG LCS skin... and low elo plays suck at landing her skins and making use of her amazing balance...) sigh... w/e w/e w/e idk i have literally typed up WAY too much stuff... i'm just really hopeful and curious with a lot of things and i'm hoping a once beloved Champion by the name of Ahri can go back to her original fun roots ;-; and that riot doesn't Ruin another champ i love (Zoe)... [sg-janna] [sg-soraka] (Waits patiently for Star Guardian Taliyah to be a thing...)

Raxistaicho1/5/2018, 8:47:47 PM4 votes

What's the balance team thinking about Ahri these days? The low risk-low reward playstyle arising from her high mobility but low damage (especially for her class) doesn't lead to the most exciting moments for either her or her opponents. Generally I find myself just passively poking and pushing at the enemy until they're low enough that I can all-in them even if I miss a crucial skillshot or two.

Well, I mean I've been spamming Kayn recently and have started to actually enjoy myself, but still, would be nice to learn what's going on.

Akroma11/5/2018, 7:29:54 PM4 votes

Runes:

Further Klepto work, likely reducing the differences between best and worst case users (nerf the strongest/buff the weakest). Manaflow Band nerf (still reducing need to manage mana too much)

What about my bruiser rune??

Floupi1/5/2018, 6:04:09 PM4 votes

[deleted]

Kareem1001/5/2018, 4:28:36 PM3 votes

What about the clash game mode? when is it or what patch, i cant wait?

Sahn Uzal1/5/2018, 4:44:19 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler, have you had a good time during the winterbreak?

I wanted to ask you about GP, the dude seems to be performing pretty well rn, But Kleptomancy definetly seems to be the most commonly used Keystone on him. I was wondering how he's doing with Keystones Other than Kleptomancy.

Light GG1/5/2018, 7:32:31 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler, I run the Kha'Zix Mains community on Discord and Reddit, I was wondering what the goals are the Kha'Zix Nerfs are aiming to achieve? What are some key areas that stand out as unhealthy or too strong at the moment?

From the feedback I get from most Kha'Zix players, the consensus is that the Passive Damage is just too strong right now, especially in conjunction with Duskblade and Dark Harvest. You don't even need to isolate anymore when that was what made Kha'Zix's identity unique as an assassin.

Thanks as always for the work you're doing :D Khazix

Spideraxe1/5/2018, 4:31:03 PM3 votes

Hey Meddler happy new year. Squad5 mentioned that a possible source of Ornn's issues was how strong he traded in lane with Brittle, is that what you are looking at

ProfDrDeath1/5/2018, 5:31:20 PM2 votes

Meddler, any chance there will be change to ADC itemisation sometime soon? With the 7.24 buffs to Fleet Footwork, IE+Shiv+Firecannon feels too much again.

More specifically, I feel like the Zeal Upgrades are too cheap compared to the rest of the items.

Ashen Rider1/5/2018, 4:42:02 PM2 votes

Looking good so far, but can I ask about skill of elixir? I feel like it can be a little unfair, giving you half the benefit of a level up for pretty much free. The bug that causes the ability level up icons for skills to be on your screen for the rest of the game if you get to level 18 after using a skill of elixir is irritating as well.