Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 1

RiotMeddler·Nov 1, 2017·1 votes·78,330 views

Morning folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

Champs without Keystone Runes

One of the things we'll be looking at the most once pre-season goes out is whether each champ has keystones that meet their needs sufficiently. While we're confident there are multiple keystones that are useful on every champ that doesn't necessarily mean there'll be keystones that are good fits for them in the tree they want to go for a particular position.

A good example of that is Nunu, who if wanting to jungle while going resolve primary may or may not have good choices. Aftershock's not available to him at all (nothing on his kit triggers it). Grasp of the Undying is available, but looking at how the mastery version of it has gone hasn't been that appealing on him historically at least. He could take Guardian, especially given BloodBoil will trigger it, though it's not yet clear if that'll be worth considering on him.

Assuming there are champs, whether Nunu or others, who need some help with keystones then we'll be considering a few options:

Changing how some keystones trigger/interact to include otherwise excluded champs. A recent example of something similar is how Sudden Impact now triggers on leaving stealth as well, not just after dashes/blinks.
Adding new keystones to fill needed gaps. This approach is most likely if there are a range of champions all showing the same problems (DoT mages potentially, though the Arcane Comet changes may have met that need).
Buffing individual champs. If some champs have adequate keystone options, but don't synergize as strongly with them as others, the right fix might be to just buff them a bit.

Adjusting some champ and skin VO

We're currently looking at champs and skins that play their VO to everyone, with the aim of adjusting those that are too chatty, resulting in an annoying experience for others. We've already made some tweaks to Pulsefire Caitlyn, so if you've found the VO playing alongside or against that skin excessive in the past let us know if it's still a problem. Next up is Super Galaxy Rumble, who'll get toned down in an upcoming patch (maybe 7.23, not sure exactly yet). We'll be looking at other skins and champs after that too at some point, so let us know if there are particular ones you think are out of line.

Word Clouds

One of the ways we look champion survey data is by aggregating commonly used phrases into what are called word clouds. Examples of a few of those below, since when we've mentioned them in the past some people have expressed an interest in seeing some of them. Each word cloud is for a single champion and reflects what players tell us about them when we run surveys in the LoL client. The larger a word is the more often it was used. We've found these to be a useful tool in conveying things like:

What players see as the defining features of a champion
How wide ranging different views of a champion are (e.g. are there words that contradict each other cropping up from different groups of players frequently?)
Whether or not a champion has a well fleshed out personality (e.g. are all the large words on the cloud purely talking about how a champion's abilities work or does some of their character also come through prominently?)
Etc

https://imgur.com/a/Sbl5x

418 Comments

JkrexxNov 1, 201742 votes

I'd love to see more of these word clouds, they're interesting and somewhat comical... When I saw "Frostbutt" was in the cloud on #4 I burst out laughing

RiotMeddlerNov 1, 201737 votes

I'll dig out a few more for a future post.

DessemNov 1, 201724 votes

So what you're saying is, Irelia has no personality, Teemo is just annoying, and Braum is a 'stache?

so let us know if there are particular ones you think are out of line.

THROW ANOTHER ROCK.

Please nerf Taliyah's VO.

MiIf FortuneNov 1, 201712 votes

i mean there is a reason shes getting a vgu.... shes one of the most bland characters

RiotMeddlerNov 1, 201718 votes

[{quoted}](name=MiIf Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Txqphwwa,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-11-01T16:04:01.114+0000)

i mean there is a reason shes getting a vgu.... shes one of the most bland characters

No idea where that's coming from, Taliyah's not getting a VGU.

Edit: I'm slow, we're talking about Irelia for that bit...

JakalNov 1, 201712 votes

I think he meant Irelia. :P

RiotMeddlerNov 1, 20178 votes

{quoted}

I think he meant Irelia. :P

Oh, yeah, I feel dumb now.

Sahn UzalNov 1, 20173 votes

Don't worry, I thought the dude was talking about Taliyah aswell :P

QuackasNov 1, 201721 votes

Hey Meddler,

Going off topic but...

How do you feel about the Hextech-earn-a-chest-with-S-on-a-champion-you-own-but-haven't-got-S-before-on system now that we have had it in play for a while?

Are there going to be any changes to the system with the new season?

My personal thoughts on it:

As a Blitz OTP: every week I have to play a champ I never play until I get lucky enough to get an S-. This usually results in 5-10 games of absolutely terrible play and a 30% winrate at best because I never play this champ...until I get enough familiarity to get an S and then I go back to playing the champ I ACTUALLY WANT TO PLAY.

Was this the intention of the system?

It is a very tiresome system, forcing players to constantly pick up different champs long enough to get a reward. If I could just play Blitz and get multiple S rankings for more chests it would be far more enjoyable... Like first chest get 1 S- on Blitz, then second chest get an S, third get an S+, fourth get 2 S- and so forth.

And then there is the limited champion pool... I have earned an S on EVERY support this season and then even some champs most wouldn't consider support... I can't imagine what an ADC main has to do with their even more limited champion pool.

Play a different role? I won't get an S... Support main for lyfe.

RiotMeddlerNov 1, 20179 votes

I can't offer any useful thoughts here, my apologies, the rewards side of things isn't an area of the game I've got enough involvement with to talk about knowledgeably. Did want to post though so it didn't look like I was just ignoring this though.

BeanokNov 1, 20177 votes

This is something that's bothered me a lot. The first piece of advice anyone ever gets for climbing in ranked - narrow your champion pool - is the exact thing that will stop you from getting rewards.

WendígoNov 1, 201717 votes

Who called my boi Braum boring? I’ll kill ‘em

RiotMeddlerNov 1, 201714 votes

That's one of the things that comes through really clearly in these surveys. Not matter how cool or well done you may think a champ is personally, there's always some group of people who don't see why they're even in the game, without exception. Helps as a regular reminder that taste is never universal.

ElderNaphtolNov 1, 20174 votes

Where you've got words like 'strong', have you remembered to talk account of context? For example, the majority of people might be saying 'not strong', but your word cloud would represent that as people thinking Braum is strong.

RiotDanCastNov 1, 20174 votes

Or likely they're describing his physique/personality

TheAceInShadesNov 1, 20176 votes

TBH a fair chunk of Braum's playstyle (And this is coming from a rank 7 braum) is standing in the way. He's not spamming abilities and flying around the map like a renekton in urf.

TiberiusAudleyNov 1, 201713 votes

I like how both spellings of mustache are near the top of Braum's word cloud.

RiotMeddlerNov 1, 201718 votes

{quoted}

I like how both spellings of mustache are near the top of Braum's word cloud.

That's my favourite thing about that one :).

The fourth one by contrast I find interesting because it's nowhere near as obvious who it's for at first glance.

The Tank ManNov 1, 20172 votes

{quoted}

That's my favourite thing about that one :).

The fourth one by contrast I find interesting because it's nowhere near as obvious who it's for at first glance.

Is it Irelia? I wasn't sure who until I saw butt and then blades/stun/dash and all the other words clicked

RiotMeddlerNov 1, 20173 votes

It is yeah. Wanted to avoid mentioning that in the post itself though since I think it's interesting looking at them without that knowledge, that one in particular.

Linna ExcelNov 1, 201717 votes

It's gotta be irelia. I can tell because it had the word nerf in it. ;P

BunnymapNov 1, 201710 votes

Gotta love the misspelled shield above moustache

Linna ExcelNov 1, 20179 votes

Meddler, this probably needs a bigger conversation but do you see all of the following as a possibility:

remove sightstone and its upgrades
buff yellow trinket, allow an upgrade option into a pink trinket at level 9 or whatever
add an 8th dedicated item slot for red pill or blue pill

I feel like sightstone isn't really needed anymore because we have yellows now, so maybe getting rid of it and improving team vision is the best thing to do going forward.

RiotMeddlerNov 1, 201718 votes

I think there's a decent amount of value in letting some players go deeper into vision than others (specialization of skill/output, lack of even vision across the map etc). Pushing all warding onto trinkets has some problems as a result. One useful thing we saw with the Ardent Censer rushing though was that quite a few more people were interested in playing support if they got to buy a 'real' item first', rather than being forced to spend their initial gold on vision. Once pre-season's settled down we've got some interest into looking at whether we can make that a reasonable option without screwing your team on needed vision.

FutaliciousNov 1, 201731 votes

What about a slot purely for pink wards? It feels awful if you're in late late late game with no way to put down pink wards without selling an item like a mongoloid

InfernapeNov 1, 20176 votes

It could also be a rune of some sort.

HalcyonDwellerNov 1, 201710 votes

Yes, at least this please. Pretty please. It sucks not being able to have full build and buy control wards.

RaikariaNov 1, 20176 votes

I would argue that functions as a game-hurrying mechanic. You either invest into vision but have worse stats/actives; or you have to take more risks but are stronger in a fight.

GuttlerNov 1, 20179 votes

Can we make suggestions?

How about adding a passive to support items that reduces trinket cooldowns or increases the stored ward cap by one. Putting more vision on support items could help to give those items an identity as being for supports.

I'm not even appraching this as a support player, but rather as a tank player who is unhappy with the likes of item 3109 item 3190 item 3800 being just better and cheaper versions of classic pure tank items. item 3068 is crying. [sg-soraka]

SchattenbornNov 1, 20171 votes

Might not be the answer you're looking for, but Ruby Sightstone kind of gives you what you're asking for. One extra ward, and the unique passive "Active ability items' cooldowns are reduced by 20% each."

GuttlerNov 1, 20176 votes

I want to make support items less appealing to tanks and more appealing to supports.

VekknaNov 1, 20179 votes

{quoted}

I think there's a decent amount of value in letting some players go deeper into vision than others (specialization of skill/output, lack of even vision across the map etc).

I agree, but I'm curious how you decide which players have that option. Support is a given, but I'm talking about:

item 3711 item 3147 item 3092

Junglers have the option of specializing in vision. ADs have the option of specializing into vision control, and AD assassins get it by default. You recently made balance decisions about FQC (the only AP vision item) with the express intent of keeping it from being an attractive item in mid.

So how do you decide which classes/roles to disallow from speccing for vision control? What's the distinction between Kat and Zed that determines why only one of them can build a vision item? Or between Lee jungle and Jax top?

HalcyonDwellerNov 1, 20179 votes

On the topic of reducing obnoxious shared VOs...

Yasuo says "Hasagi" every time he casts q, which is kind of obnoxious, since Q is on such a low cooldown for him.

Could that be toned down at all?

CaliflowerNov 1, 20176 votes

Any plans on changing Poppy in the preseason, her stats look like she needs some love

RiotMeddlerNov 1, 20179 votes

We'll be reassessing everyone once the pre-season patch hits. The changes to Runes are large enough that balance states will get shifted around quite a lot so basing too much off current state of things doesn't make much sense.

Zagula BiggsNov 1, 20175 votes

Hi Meddler,

Since you guys are looking at changes for Leblanc at some point (I think after runes have settled), are there any plans for my boy Fizz to get some looks? His W definitely needs some work imo.

MiIf FortuneNov 1, 20174 votes

Hi meddler i have some vo questions.

How come in spanish lan voices, when they randomly get base champions updates when they get a legendary skin or just a random time, but we are stuck to only getting lux and maoki getting random voice updates and then maybe miss fortune with her upcoming splashes? Have you ever considered doing a "modern" (2 minute) vo update for alpha champs? Such as 2015 where alot of champs for half vus but no new voices (Shen, Alistar, Kassadin, Singed, Fiora) is there any plans at all at updating voices?

RiotMeddlerNov 1, 20176 votes

We're interested in updating just voices on some more champs, can't make any promises there though.

Sometimes we'll do voice updates to the base when a legendary skin gets done because the skin's using the same voice actor as the base skin so we've got them in the studio already which makes things easier. I'm not certain, but it's possible what's happened in the case of the spanish LAN voices you mention that the voice actor in question did both the base and skin in that case, while the voice actor in other languages, english included, was different for the base and the skin.

got em lmaoNov 1, 20173 votes

Any thoughts about keystone diversity for mages? It seems like most are pigeonholed into comet, even if it is suboptimal

RiotMeddlerNov 1, 20175 votes

Phase Rush should be a really solid choice on quite a few. As with Stormraider's Surge we're expecting some people will be slower to pick up on how valuable it is though because it doesn't have damage and people gravitate towards that pretty heavily. For really burst focused mages Electrocute's also a strong option. Dark Harvest's potentially solid too, though that's one of the ones I'm less sure about the current balance tuning on in general. Summon: Aery is also going to be good in some cases, particularly but not only if the mage in question has a shield on their kit. I think it gets automatically dismissed by a lot of people because they see shield in the text, but given the way the CD on it works it's not like you're getting only half the benefit if you don't have a shield.

Would also expect at least some niche use of the Inspiration keystones, looter especially, to have its place. Resolve's generally not so mage friendly. Bit of splash use of precision's possible, Fleet Footwork on champs like TF especially, though wouldn't expect too much of that.

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 1, 20176 votes

do you think the fact that precision gives attack speed and no raw ad/ap (the set bonus) might be hurting that tree's appeal? I know at first I thought that tree looked really nice for someone like azir, but the loss of the AP and the way comet's cd is reduced had me going back to sorcery fast. I imagine it could also hurt a lot of ad bruisers that want something like press the attack, but also would normally go AD quints not attack speed quints right now (like renekton)

Glory ln DeathNov 1, 20174 votes

Take away the attack speed and it really hurts champions who do want attack speed, though.

EROTIC RAID BOSSNov 1, 20175 votes

guess what I'm wondering is if you should get a mix of stats based on the 2 trees chosen- like precision/sorc gets you attack speed with some AD/AP

I get that the set bonuses kind of replace quints, but its weird to me that certain champs that should probably love precision probably wont ever use it just cus of the stat

Glory ln DeathNov 1, 20174 votes

I could see that helping a bit. Maybe 25-50% of the full bonus from the secondary path. It wouldn't be huge, but it would let some champions feel better about taking certain paths as their primary.

Sun Wu RyuumokuNov 1, 20173 votes

Phase Rush should be a really solid choice on quite a few.

Could be great... if it wasnt so weak earlier :

for range its not an issue
for melee its a big change... As Talon u usualy take Stormrider... But now Phase rush don't provide u enough ms until very late.

i prefer PR to Stormrider cause its easier to use... but need a number change, most keystones are strong at first minute.

CattySpaceDragonNov 1, 20173 votes

Can you finally look at Aurelion Sol in the Preseason? It feels so bad to have literally no chance in some matchups because of the way his Q works. Ever played vs a zed who got a lvl 2 Ezreal gank an now can just kill you whenever you want because he can easy doge your Q and enter your passive zone? Biggest Anti Fun part in the whole game (at least vs Katarina i can do soemthing but Zed and Akali are just to much to play against)

SythezNov 1, 20176 votes

If you think Zed is a hard matchup for sol then you are just bad at aurelion, zed is the easiest assassin matchup by far. Aurelion does not need any changes, he is fine as he is. Im an Aurelion onetrick in diamond 1 so i know what im talking about.

FloreNov 1, 20176 votes

yeah and a sol can out roam teleport and shove lane for 0 mana. shits got strengths and weaknesses.

VanjieNov 1, 20171 votes

Meddler,

Karma mains are still waiting for anything you have to say about her. You mentioned Karma getting a rework a few months ago. You then announced a few weeks ago that the update would be pushed back to next year because of the new rune system. It seems pointless to announce something you are not willing to communicate about. Why did you halt any progress or communication in this game because of the new rune system? What do you want to see happen with Karma and what do you want form us in terms of ideas and suggestions?

You said she needs a lot of changes. Meddler, you confirmed she will be getting a rework. Thank you. You also stated that you would be open to talking about old moves and other ideas on Karma. What are you doing to live up to this comment that you made since you first said she is getting a rework? You have said nothing, you have done nothing, and you have pushed back her rework . . . . and any further progress on this champion . . . . AGAIN. I just think the Karma community is getting sick and tired of you saying one thing and doing something entirely different . . . which is the same thing every year . . . nothing. We want COMMUNICATION about Karma and what you want from us. You got in trouble with us the first time because you refused to communicate and you allowed Ricklessabandon and other Developers to do whatever the hell they wanted.

========================

Since we are on the topic of VO. One of my friends posted a video of a interaction with the VO actress for Karma, Danielle McRae. These fans were talking to her and she even recited some famous Karma quotes. Well, the only Karma quotes that were created . . . which is like 3 or 4 since Riot doesn't care about her. It got me thinking . . . if a bunch of fans can go up to a VO actress and here some lines, why cannot a company as big as Riot Games pay someone as talented as Danielle McRae to come in and do some extra VO or more work on Karma? The answer is simple. Riot Games have no problem paying to have voice actresses and actors come out for a champion like Ahri or Lux, but when it comes to Karma . . . . for the past 4 years they don't care. You have shown us that no matter what you say and do, you don't give two craps about Karma.

Danielle McRae has more passion about her work than you do, Meddler, and your entire team. If the champion is not Ahri, Lux or Jinx . . . you really don't care. Here is the video and she recites Karma's mantra VO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=144&v=b5n2RAendzo

ZallamanceNov 1, 201710 votes

Jesus Christ dude, take a breather. You just wrote a short story about how you feel Karma is the most special of snowflakes and since Meddler hasn't been prioritizing her, he doesn't care and nobody cares and obviously if they did all the things you want would happen. Chill.

I'm not gonna go into too much detail, partly because I don't care to, but lets breakdown your post a bit. I'm gonna be paraphrasing your questions /complaints to, honestly, how I read them. They are how I feel your coming off

"Why hasn't Karma been reworked yet? I'm sick and tired of waiting." You said it yourself, Runes Reforged is why. It's a huge, game changing alteration that affects every champ and every player. It's being prioritized and even after it's live, it'll be constantly tweaked to make it balanced.

"HOW DARE YOU NOT COMMUNICATE CONSTANTLY ABOUT KARMA'S REWORK PROGRESS. YOU DARE INVOKE OUR WRATH A SECOND TIME?!" Okay, you are a consumer. I'll admit, a consumer who Riot will listen to, but a consumer nonetheless. You don't hold impact to anyone at the company, only an opinion. Sure, you can say what you like and what you don't, but to think you can get the them in trouble is a joke. Rioter's respond and listen and make change's because they want too, not because you forced them.

"Why doesn't Karma have more voice lines? Why doesn't Riot care?" Time of her development, constraints were there limiting what they could do. If champions were graded on voice lines, Karma would be much higher than a lot of other champs. Complaining about this is pretty ridiculous. Moving on.

"Why can't you just hire the voice actress back? Because it's not nine-tails, double rainbow or KABOOM obviously." You forgot redhead+large assets and edgelord O'Brien to that list. Honestly though, there's a lot of paperwork and legal barriers, on top of budget and time that need to happen. Sometimes, things line up and everything is fine, but more times than not, it needs to be planned in advance.

Moral of the story, voice your opinion, but don't just lose your head and complain, else your not going to be taken seriously.