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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 6

RiotMeddler·10/6/2017, 3:54:21 PM·1 votes·43,649 views

Hi all,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

7.21 Balance Changes

While most of our focus is on pre-season and beyond now we've still got some balance changes, or at least investigations, coming in 7.21 where we're confident changes won't be rendered irrelevant or inappropriate by pre-season's impact. Short versions of some of those below, more details to follow next week.

  • Likely buffs - Frozen Heart, Urgot (after assessing Sterak's change especially)
  • Likely nerfs - Sejuani
  • Possible buff - Manamune
  • Possible nerf - Azir (might be in an ok spot to just leave until pre-season and then reassess, unclear without a deeper look at him)

Why not buff ratios/nerf bases?

A regular question that crops up is why not just just nerf bases and buff ratios to make a champ who's weak outside of support more effective in solo lanes (e.g. Brand or Zyra as recent subjects of discussion). Sometimes that is the right approach, there are a number circumstances where something different could be better though including:

  • Often, as in cases like this, we don't want to impact a champ's power as a support. If we're just buffing ratios that buffs support too, if we're also nerfing bases that generally nerfs support, at the very least at some points in the game.
  • Ratio power is more snowbally than most other power, given its gold dependence. If you want to add snowball to a champ it can be the right call, if you want to add reliability it often isn't.
  • Adding power in other ways can be a good opportunity to add more distinction of playstyle between different positions (e.g. interaction with farming and therefore different skill testing)
  • Sometimes extra damage isn't the appropriate sort of power to add to a champion and ratio buffs aren't a good tool to offer some sorts of power (e.g. some things don't scale smoothly like ability resets, or have limits they shouldn't be pushed past like CC durations).

Our approach to micropatching

For anyone that hasn't seen it and is interested in how we're hotfixing more nowadays I'd highly recommend giving Maple Nectar's post from the start of the week a read. It goes into some depth as to why we're hotfixing more than we used to (TLDR = improved micropatch technology), why we do such patches in the first place and the trade off of reacting to problems quickly versus waiting on additional observations and data.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/AIzT2eu3-general-philosophy-on-balance-hotfixing

Trying different directions with a few runes

While we’re getting close to locking down all the runes for ship we’re still experimenting with somewhat different directions for a few to try and solve some remaining problems. Odds are high you’ll see alternate versions of some Runes, Press the Attack and Presence of Mind especially, on PBE at some point. Not guaranteed we’ll stick with the new versions of course, might try something new again or go back to the old.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

255 Comments

Fütanari10/6/2017, 4:03:17 PM18 votes

Where are the tower buffs?

ßiggie Cheese10/6/2017, 4:22:23 PM16 votes

Meddler,

What about item 3003 ? Currently, item 3165 is out shining every other AP mana item - it's overloaded with stats and a powerful item passive. item 3003 has a terrible build path at the moment, item 3070 has to built first and it grants 0 combat stats in which you have to farm with to buy item 1058. After that, it is still another 1100g to complete item 3003.

Why not reduce the cost to 2900 or 300 and/or change the build path to item 3070 + item 1026 + item 1052 ? I know there is some AP itemization changes coming up next season at some point, but why has item 3165 been allowed to be the one-stop-shop for mages needing mana for so long? Some minor changes are needed until then.

I like the playstyle of getting item 3003 on Ziggs , but I am forced to go item 3165 because it's too broken not to, the "late game" trade off for item 3040 is never worth versus just getting item 3165 early on. item 3802 is also a large part of item 3165's strength on top if it's crazy stats; the passive portion of item 3802 plus the AP and flat mana it provides outshines item 3070.

RiotMeddler10/6/2017, 3:56:33 PM15 votes

One other note: I'm still catching up on all the Worlds games from last night, so will probably spend time in the thread later in the day more than in the next couple of hours.

PeachyKeen6910/6/2017, 4:20:43 PM12 votes

I really wish Riot would show Zyra some real love and consideration instead of just throwing their hands up in the air. Here are my two main issues:

1.) Zyra very commonly likes to take 15 magic penetration in runes. Her damage will be gutted from the runes work, both because she can't take these runes and also because it's harder for her to proc some of the new keystones. She absolutely needs some buffs to either her base damage on Q and E or she needs her AP ratios buffed on these spells (and I don't mean '5 damage added at each rank')

2.) Riot has said in the past that they will keep mid-lane Zyra viable. Zyra is a first and foremost a control mage. Like other mages (Brand, Annie, Malz), her CC and high damage has led her to be played botlane as support. The difference is, Riot made it a priority to keep champs like Annie and most recently Malz (primarly) viable as solo laners as they were meant to be. On the other hand, mid-lane Zyra is weak and Riot has not kept their word on making her viable mid-lane again. The most recent example of this is PBE buffs for runes--other mages are getting base HP buffs, but Zyra isn't.

Please, please do something to make Zyra viable again, pre-season will ruin her if not given the proper consideration.

Forhonor32110/6/2017, 4:04:51 PM10 votes

Good to see that you're taking Urgot into account for the Sterak change.

Also, I know preseason is looking towards new runes but are you possibly looking into maybe AP itemization as well? If not preseason, sometime afterwards in season 8?

Tormentula10/6/2017, 5:08:56 PM6 votes

Meddler,

How do you feel about champions that ran attack speed runes, that don't actually build attack speed, getting no attack speed buffs?

In particular, I'm looking at Elise Nidalee Sejuani RekSai Vi LeeSin Nocturne + more

These champions flow nicely with attack speed runes, especially in skirmishes, 1v1s, and animation cancels, and removing that attack speed might actually affect the entire experience playing them since those are gameplay altering stats rather then just numbers for power/resistance.

item 1041 doesn't cut it, especially since it actually does less damage then old machete, and it just evens out the loss of attack speed reds giving 15% (which doesn't help those that don't go machete like sej and nidalee), and it only works on jungle camps which can be really disorienting since usually players get the feel of their champion and runes while farming and then express that in 1v1s, now its like auto cancel bait when you actually fight somebody since the champion will flow completely different in fights. I'd actually argue a machete revert or attack speed removal with some bonus lifesteal or damage instead, and to just give those champions the base attack speed, along with other skirmishers and marksmen that build it.

Veijari10/6/2017, 4:00:35 PM6 votes

How about making Steraks passive work on champions with X amount of health like Warmogs so Urgot can use it?

5 MOVESPEED BTW10/9/2017, 6:42:36 AM5 votes

where are my chogath nerfs meddler? why can 0/5 chogath 1v1 5/0 master yi? i must be retarded or something

Penns10/6/2017, 4:46:47 PM5 votes

When will ap assassins get magic pen items tho?

Theyre melee and squishy so they cant use Liandrys well and they also have to get Merc Treads/Ninja Tabi vs 90% of mid laners because of it.

If you can buff tanks with Frozen Heart Im sure you can buff assassins too [sg-ezreal]

Shendelzare110/6/2017, 6:02:08 PM5 votes

Any updates for LeBlanc? Leblanc

The Yetii Rider10/6/2017, 5:59:28 PM4 votes

Meddler, Nunu has no Keystone. He can't activate Aftershock. Meddler, please acknowledge that you see this. I am genuinely worried about the time period between preseason and whenever Nunu's VGU hits live.

Spideraxe10/6/2017, 7:10:16 PM4 votes

How do you feel about the state of vision in League, since late game with control wards is difficult without sacrificing a whole slot

robotmaster10/6/2017, 4:14:50 PM3 votes

What I don't understand if you really want zyra back in mid make her plants cost 10-50 mana and add the effect every time a plant kills a unit she gains 8-10-12 mana back. This way she can still support and be annoying with her plants with little change and now she can farm better in lane. Brand I don't have an answer for him sorry.

TomiMan710/6/2017, 6:25:11 PM2 votes

Often, as in cases like this, we don't want to impact a champ's power as a support. If we're just buffing ratios that buffs support too, if we're also nerfing bases that generally nerfs support, at the very least at some points in the game.

So tell me are Brand considered a support or a midlaner? If a midlaner why dont you just MAKE him a midlaner and abandone all that makes him a support now. If you consider Brand a support well...no he is just not so dont go down that road.

MAKE BRAND GREAT AGAIN.

SsDragonzPT10/6/2017, 4:27:09 PM2 votes

Please be careful not to hurt (nerf) any champion with the new Runes System. Myself, I am a Zed main and he has been nerfed enough. He isn´t that strong due to the current meta, and I´m afraid the new Electrocute will be a nerfed version of Thunderlord´s. Also the new Stopwatch rune (1 use zhonya for 600g + zhonyas and GA cooldown decrease) is gonna hurt assasssins a lot!