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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 13

RiotMeddler·10/13/2017, 5:08:39 PM·1 votes·37,116 views

Hi all,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Health Bar Improvements

We've got some health bar improvements coming to the PBE in the next week or two. Some of the changes will be more subtle stuff like making it a bit easier to tell how much damage you just took/dealt based off how the bar updates. Other changes will be more explicit like adding a clearer visualization for champs with resurrection effects available (Zac, Anivia, GA etc) so that figuring out whether someone will respawn or not doesn't have to involve digging through a bunch of icons on the buffbar.

A lot more details about those changes to come from the team working on them once they're on PBE. We'll be continuing to work on them while they're on PBE, so feedback once they're there would be highly appreciated.

Item Tweaking in Pre-Season

In addition to base stat and ability adjustments we're trying out some item changes to also adjust for the impact of runes. We're buffing a range of items, primarily those that offer magic pen or lethality, to compensate for damage their users have otherwise lost. The particular items in question were chosen because they both generally offer anti champion power (what was lost, and we don't want to increase waveclear unnecessarily) and because they're pretty closely tied to champs who need a bit more help in the new runes world. We're still planning to look at AP items as well sometime early next year, it's likely a change or two we'd originally been considering for that package of work gets pulled forwards and done here though.

7.21 will be a really light patch

Just a quick reminder that there won't be much in 7.21 given there's so much coming in 7.22. A few small balance adjustments, but nothing too major. Most of it's on the PBE already, possible we get one or two more things depending on what time permits though (chance of Udyr buffs, Locket adjustments).

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

215 Comments

KennysDreamGirl10/13/2017, 5:49:06 PM12 votes

i cant think of a question so im just gonna say hi

09 04 133610/13/2017, 5:16:45 PM10 votes

Hi Meddler I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one to ask this question but I really need a proper answer for this one. I main Fizz and have more than 3000 games with him, his rework feels bad and clunky and is too burst oriented. The guy that made the rework of Fizz even said that he fucked up, can you guys maybe revert the rework like Kog'Maw ? Or rework his kit ? /r/fizzmains is really unsatisfied with Fizz right now and how he works. He depends on his ult too much and feels too braindead to play.

Sw4de10/13/2017, 5:25:29 PM9 votes

Has there been any talk on reverting the fizz rework? so many new issues, much lower skillcap and skill expression, just 1 of the issues being the kit of a melee assassin, all his basic abilities involve him being in melee range and fighting in melee range, yet his ult punishes you for fighting within the range of his kit, it really doesnt make sense, or the fact that he has easily one of the worst laning phases in the entire game and then spikes midgame and then falls off late game again thanks to the W change.

MidasRegality10/13/2017, 5:27:54 PM6 votes

Hi Meddler, thanks for doing this again. Anything new about Fizz?

Darkrown10/13/2017, 5:22:25 PM5 votes

Hi Meddler! Anything planned for Quinn at the moment? She's kind of in a weird spot right now. I really like playing her but I'm not even sure which lane to take her anymore :/

Vekkna10/13/2017, 7:40:12 PM5 votes

Yay, my favorite subject - magic pen!

Look, I'm not going to complain about having more mpen, but these changes are not tailored to address the problems with mages who stack flat pen or rely on piercing thoughts + DFT, but it's such a broad buff that low pen mages are coming out ahead.

We need changes that will address the issue of power curve and scaling for the first group without giving too much free pen to mages who are less dependent on pen for their scaling.

  • Revert changes to Sorcs and Void
  • Lower Guise pen to 10 (unique passive, not Eyes of Pain) and reduce cost
  • Liandry's keeps Guise's 10 flat pen (not Eyes of Pain) and gains 2% pen (or bonus MR pen?) per tick, doubled to 4% against movement impaired units (unique passive)
  • New item: Lost Chapter + Guise + Amp Tome (or Guise + Amp Tome + Catalyst) with Eyes of Pain (20 mpen)
  • Protobelt: Guise + Hextech Revolver with Eyes of Pain (20 mpen)

The idea is to smooth out power spikes by making pen components more accessible instead of just making pen spikes bigger. The Guise + Chapter (or Cata) item would be a great rush item; fill a distinct niche between Morello, ROA, and Archangel; and maintain the power curve for mages who need some early pen + Precision but don't necessarily stack pen. And it's usable by champs with no feet.

The point of the Liandry's change is to give pen-stacking and dot mages a flat pen component early that builds into % shred item to maintain scaling in late game. The % pen is mostly just replacing Piercing Thoughts and stacks over 3 seconds, making it unappealing to burst mages.

I'll spare you the math, but the True Damage threshold with this itemization is 1 MR away from live, and the power curve is more fair to mages and enemies alike. Don't believe me? Assuming max pen, here are the intervals:

Live: 22 at spawn > 37 at boots > 52 at 1 component > 52+35% at 2 items > 56 + 35% at lvl 18

Reforged: 0 at spawn > 15 at boots > 25 at first component > 35 at full item > 45 at item + component > 45 + 6-12% at two items > 45 + 51-57% at three items

Balance achieved.

TL;DR: This idea works, is more fair, and is more sustainable. Free pen on Sorcs and Void are not the right changes. These buffs are disproportionately strong in some fights (eg Syndra/Veigar vs. any squishy) and disproportionately weak in other fights (eg Cassio/Zyra vs. Galio, Vlad, etc).

Zoms10/13/2017, 5:47:43 PM5 votes

I've noticed that Rakan's ability Battle Dance stacks when cast on the same target. This seems to be something new for him. Is this an intended feature that wasn't mentioned in any patch notes or is it a bug?

Penns10/13/2017, 5:26:00 PM4 votes

Melee AP mid laners dont really buy item 3020 or item 3151 (there is no buff for that one yet anyway tho, will there be one like 15 -> 18?) Do you have anything planned for flat magic pen and them?

DreamCrushed10/13/2017, 5:20:37 PM4 votes

Hey, I am really happy I caught one of these early. I know this is unrelated to this particular QGT, but I've noticed a trend. Every time a champion gets a VGU, they are almost guaranteed an additional form of CC, especially if they are a fighter/bruiser/diver/tank.

So I have a question. Right now, one of the only fighters left without any CC (aside from like a .25 second knock back) is Shyvana. Is there any plans to add any form of CC to her that would give her a little more interact-ability outside of right clicking?

Also BTW, thanks for doing these Meddler, I read practically every one.

Tormentula10/13/2017, 5:11:52 PM3 votes

Will we likely see buffs to poorly preforming champions after the runes update?

I mean buffs that try to put stuff like Skarner Kindred back into the meta?

How's Evelynn looking so far on live even with the current runes and masteries?

Off Meta Zilean10/13/2017, 9:12:10 PM3 votes

Oh, Meddler - why are champions like Zilean who buy Lucidity Boots midlane not being compensated for the damage loss that other mages are getting back via Sorc Boots?

Tantarboy10/13/2017, 5:16:42 PM3 votes

Any update on the Galio anti mage/MR changes that you had mention a bit ago?

Orochi Yasuo10/14/2017, 11:14:55 AM2 votes

I'm going to repost this since it's a good question:

"I have a genuine question that no rioter has seem to be able to answer yet. Why do assassins have larger windows of burst when mages and adc's don't? Why delay some champions but then leave others to delete people in .000001 seconds? Why is it only bad when certain assassins do it? Notice that assassin kayn has no delayed burst too.

I truly do think you guys should get rid of the delayed burst thing. It creates too large of a window for adc's to melt the class that's supposed to counter them."

Jaycen bOrnn10/13/2017, 5:18:32 PM2 votes

Hey Meddler,

Speaking about lethality and MPen, a while back Lord Dom’s and Mortal Reminder were added as upgrades to LW. Do you anticipate you might consider doing the same with void staff?

Cheers, JB

Risk of Fate10/13/2017, 5:27:11 PM2 votes

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SciFi Scrivener10/13/2017, 6:42:47 PM2 votes

Do you know what patch will contain the new Rune system? I'm guessing 7.23.

Big Fella Bomba10/13/2017, 6:01:46 PM1 votes

i have a request since you guys are going to do a health bar improvements, can you please put a visual effect to the health bar (i am talking about the health bar below skills) that shows shields and shows the number of the shield, we can see the shield in the health bar above the champion but in the other one we can't see the shield and its value, this would be really helpful since i was looking to know how much the shield i gained from someone who gives shield like Morgana, Janna even those who give shield to themselves ex. Jarvan, Tahm and more.

Heavens Karma10/13/2017, 5:26:28 PM1 votes

Hello Meddler.

I don't know if you are the person to ask about this kind of thing, but there has been talks of a Karma gameplay update sometime in the future. My question is that there were 3 voice-lines for Traditional Karma that seem to be lost. I didn't start playing until long after Karma's first VGU, so I don't know if they were meant to be in her Traditional skin.

The voice lines were ones said by Karma when using Mantra with a specific spell, I think. Or perhaps it was added on to her current Mantra dialogue.

They were: "Lath Rian Oune Vi Phyla!" ("Weave the threads of Tranquility!") "Gaen Na Kyri Vi Jia!" ( "Reap the winds of Pain!") "Sae Eleisa Tera Vi Saera!" ("Discover the meaning of Magic!")

(Bold are the ones missing.)

When you eventually get to Karma, can these 3 lines be added back to Traditional Karma?