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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 9

RiotMeddler··1 votes·61,477 views

Hi all,

Thoughts for today below!


7.5 Changes

Patch 7.5 started getting played on yesterday and so we're beginning to get an idea of how it's landed. Too early to say with confidence, but we've got a few initial reactions:

  • Warlord's Bloodlust and Stoneborn Pact (Bond of Stone replacement) seem to be in good spots so far. For now at least they're looking like good choices on some champs, but not all. We'll probably do a bit of tidying up on them at least in 7.6 (might smooth out the healing extremes a little on Warlord's for example, though that's tentative). Quite happy with the changes so far overall though.

  • Aatrox looks like he's almost certainly too weak by a noticeable margin. We're looking at possible buffs, with a decent chance we hotfix at least some of them out. We would expect Aatrox to struggle somewhat as players adapt to new builds, the changed passive etc, it looks like his kit's just too weak as well though. Le Blanc, Varus and MF may also have been hit too hard, so we're both looking at where they've landed to understand it better and considering what we'd do if that were true (want to answer questions like impact on Support MF versus ADC MF, how much LB's performance is affected by some players not yet changing skill rank up orders etc).

  • Think we've smoothed out some unintended mark pain on Kindred, we'll see though. Understanding where they've landed off these changes will be helpful for assessing any possible future needs (making crit more appealing's something we've talked about as an option for example)

  • Lucian changes look promising so far, with a definite feel improvement. Power impact less clear, though we think we're probably less at risk of Lucian being everywhere given his spell ranges are shorter than when that was previously the case, making him hopefully less universal a pick.


Expanded Lux VO

Reav3 talked about this a couple of days ago on Reddit in more detail, figured I'd mention it here as well for anyone that missed it. We've got a lot of new lines for Lux coming in the next patch (same voice actress who did original Lux and Elementalist Lux). That's in part a test of how much impact changing just VO has. Possible we'll do more if it goes well, though too early to say for sure.


Goals for patch 7.6

Gameplay wise patch 7.6 is likely to be smaller than average for a few reasons, focusing mainly on a few balance outliers and followup to 7.5. In no particular order those are:

  • We've got a number of people who'd normally work on standard patch content focused on mid-season at this point.
  • 7.6 is the LCS playoff patch, so we'd like to reduce the amount of change in it at the end of the split as a result.
  • We've had a number of patches with some pretty wide impacting changes in them since pre-season (jungle tuning, masteries adjustments etc). We think it's time for a less changing period as a result (7.7 and 7.8 will also probably have fewer systemic changes than usual too therefore).

218 Comments

Chromatic Eagle20 votes

Please do more VO updates. It's painful waiting for older champions to get a VGU in the hopes of getting some new lines. Getting a VO doesn't mean Riot has to redo them if/when they get a VGU right?

RiotMeddler25 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Qa21ePAW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-03-09T18:21:05.526+0000)

Please do more VO updates. It's painful waiting for older champions to get a VGU in the hopes of getting some new lines. Getting a VO doesn't mean Riot has to redo them if/when they get a VGU right?

I'd expect we wouldn't want to do VO updates on characters who were VGU candidates in the moderate future if their personality/background had a meaningful chance of changing significantly. Lux is a really safe option here for example, she's nowhere near a VGU candidate and her theme and character are solid, so we could record extra VO with confidence it wouldn't be obsolete too soon.

Someone like Pantheon by contrast, who needs both some thematic work and, while not an immediate VGU candidate seems like a good option well before someone like Lux, would run the risk of recording VO that then has to be replaced. Much better to put that recording time into someone we can be more confident is in a good spot.

Jeddy01730 votes

I would say prioritize champs like Shen, MF, Fiora, etc if you plan to continue. Champs who already been visually updated, but still have old VO.

RavenHusky7 votes

The big reason why Lux got added VO besides the Demacia Lore event, is that they already had Carrie Keranen come in to do Elementalist's VO, so they might as well knock out two birds with one stone.

Lùmen7 votes

MF is top priority.

#StopFourthWallBreaking #StayRelatable

I am Razgriz2 votes

Sona, Akali.

Jeddy0172 votes

Not Akali, she's on the list for a VGU in the future.

I am Razgriz2 votes

?

They said stopfourthwallbreaking

I simply mentioned Akali, because she breaks the 4th wall a few times.

Sharjo10 votes

I feel like strong contenders for such updates are folks who got VGUs or VUs in the past that were only partial, such as Shen, Maokai, Fiora, Miss Fortune, Alistar, Kassadin and Sona. I'd say Maokai, Fiora, Miss Fortune and Shen are probably the strongest contenders among that group (providing I'm not forgetting any champions) since they've also had their lore updated in more recent times.

Spideraxe4 votes

I also think those champs are strong contenders, particularly Maokai imo since he'd essentially have a dissected VGU with his VU a few years back, and upcoming splash and gameplay updates

misfortunas6 votes

What are the plans on Lissandra and her passive? Didn't you guys discuss that she is in need for a buff this patch?

RiotMeddler10 votes

She's still on the list, possible changes don't happen in 7.6 though.

SKP23en5 votes

I played the new Aatrox and his passive is an authentic pain against ranged or mobile champions, such as Fiora, Quinn and Yasuo. I understand it takes a while to get used to the new kit, but having to charge the passive to revive him is hard enough without the incredible fast draining.

GoldenPiranha5 votes

Are you guys planing to do more ability icon updates? I would really like to some older champs (jax, malphite, nunu) get some love in regards to that

Thighonia5 votes

Love the VO updates definitely think you should continue with those. Some stuff for Garen, Shen, Vlad stuff that was touched mid range recently would be super cool

Eskimo5034 votes

I love the idea of of updating old VO so much. I'm sure lux mains are crazy happy they get to hear new lines instead of the old 6-7 usual ones

BotLaneStopDying4 votes

Are changes for udyr gonna come in the near future?

Udyr May Fire4 votes

Please give Udyr some love, i want to play him again. Right now there is no way to compete with meta junglers.

ProfDrDeath3 votes

For Varus, from looking at the available data (LoLalytics), it seems to me that his low performance comes a lot from people stuck in their old, Lethality-based build paths.

Specifically, auto-attacking based items have better perfomances than Lethality ones on him since the patch hit, often with differences of over 5%. Does your internal data confirm that?

RiotMeddler8 votes

I'd expect that to be the case, I wouldn't want to commit to an answer though until we've seen both larger sample sizes and players modifying their play patterns as well. Definitely agree it's very possible his performance spikes back up once players who haven't already adjust to what's now optimal.

Blue Moon Wolf3 votes

I'm really exited for the VO update for Lux, but more so about the idea of many of the older champs also getting VO updates. There is so much that a VO can tell you about the champ and their lore that even their lore page can't really portray. It's also a great way to give a little bit of attention to champs that feel like they are left to sit for years since they aren't too old/ performing poorly enough for a VGU, but don't have that level of personality newer champs have. I really hope you guys keep going with the VO updates. from what I've heard with the Lux VO it already feels like a great improvement for her. I know of a lot of people who are looking forward to the idea of their main getting an updated VO as well.

s7efen3 votes

I've had a few people mention the warlords proc being used at full health being a bit weird. I believe it uses the same stacking mechanism as static shiv/rfc where it's beneficial to use the proc in any scenario, but with warlords say pre fight the healing being used up on a first auto when you are just entering combat seems kinda annoying. Why should the warlords proc be consumed if you are full health?

Also, is Ashe ult on the list of "hitbox vs particle/animation image mismatch" updates similar to what you did with Chogath W?

Nausicäa 3 votes

Please say new champion release soon. 7.8? Really disappointed that there hasnt been a new champion yet this year.

CSDragon3 votes

We did get two full reworks though. That's as big as a new champ IMO

4GLTE3 votes

Still no Rek'Sai ?

RiotRiot Axes5 votes

Still taking more time. Really sorry about that - I did a poor job of setting expectations at the outset, and our estimated timeline was wrong by a sizable amount anyway.

We're very positive on the direction and she is coming along well, but our pipeline for this scope of work isn't as good as it needs to be.

Spideraxe3 votes

Does that mean we would potentially see another mini rework like that come out first or would you guys still like to push Rek'Sai first

Winterkill3 votes

Expanded Lux VO

Reav3 talked about this a couple of days ago on Reddit in more detail, figured I'd mention it here as well for anyone that missed it. We've got a lot of new lines for Lux coming in the next patch (same voice actress who did original Lux and Elementalist Lux). That's in part a test of how much impact changing just VO has. Possible we'll do more if it goes well, though too early to say for sure.

The problem is I doubt anyone is going to really care when I can sit here and list almost 10 other champions that could have benefited from it more than Lux. I don't think the community is even going to care when that time and effort could have been put on to a champion that actually needed it.

Anivia Caitlyn Karma Lulu Janna Teemo Zilean Ezreal Leblanc Garen

and you are sitting here telling me Lux than any of the above champions who have very old VO and don't necessarily need a VU right now, have the blandest and hardly worked on VO and personality, have new lore or a decent personality that you don't seem to care about, and you just don't seem to give a crap about to begin with.

What's next, you are going to give Jinx a full VO and interactions because she is part of your top 10 most loved champions within Riot Games? Your skin Department loves them enough to give them several 1350 RP plus skins.

Thighonia23 votes

They literally said they only did an update for Lux because of having her voice actress in for the skin already and that if it goes over well they will do it for others. Just be chill and say something encouraging like "hey riot great idea to update VOs for champs who don't need full reworks would love to see more of them!" and then you'll probably get your wish down the line. You catch more flies with honey my friend.

InTheory2 votes

[deleted]

RiotMeddler4 votes

Still looking at potential item changes.

Casual Dude2 votes

[deleted]

RiotMeddler5 votes

We're working on drafting revised policies and approaches at the moment. Not sure exactly when that stuff will be ready to share widely, it's underway at present though.

Also for anyone unaware we took that Smite Nunu player's ban off last week rather than letting it run its course since we didn't feel our different values matched up well enough with each other or had been expressed well enough.

Frooster4 votes

{quoted}

We're working on drafting revised policies and approaches at the moment. Not sure exactly when that stuff will be ready to share widely, it's underway at present though.

Also for anyone unaware we took that Smite Nunu player's ban off last week rather than letting it run its course since we didn't feel our different values matched up well enough with each other or had been expressed well enough.

Wait that means that you are ok with him just copy-pasting his message,goin double jungle and runing the game for their teammates or that 1 week punishment was enough of a warning? Riot has always stated that they let the players decide whats toxic and whats not and if he got reported 50% of the time even when winning then playerbase just dont want that kind of behaviour in their ranked games.

Quepha3 votes

I think it's more that they decided it wasn't really fair to ban him for a policy that wasn't really communicated anywhere beforehand.

ThatsNotMyBaby7 votes

PhD Lyte would have skipped the wall of PR text and slammed down the chat logs instead. There was a comment linking to a game where the chat showed how much his team was tilting off the rift trying to play with him. The OP was smart to entangle the issue with off-meta picks and draw attention away from his in-game interactions.

DCYOUNG8882 votes

Do you know why an unfinished or weird looking urgot model accidentally got released on the PBE a few days ago?

RiotMeddler14 votes

That's called an 'oops' on our part.

I'm not sure about the exact circumstances, generally when that happens it's because someone accidentally included another champions files when moving stuff around (e.g. wanted to move Galio stuff into the folder that the PBE builds from, unintentionally mixed some Urgot stuff in too).

Sharjo10 votes

Basically, shit happens.

Shadowwalker2 votes

@Meddler Aatrox definitely needs hot fixes big time. Do hot fixes usually happen within the same patch or do we have to wait for patch 7.6?

RiotMeddler3 votes

Hot fixes happen between regular patches. Usually they're done to address bugs that just can't wait until a patch, occasionally we'll also use them for champion balance if they're extremely far off and we don't think that's just a result of player learning that's still going on.

If we were to hotfix Aatrox this coming Monday's probably the most likely date, with some possibility for Tuesday or tomorrow depending on what trends we see. Again though, a hotfix is not a definite thing at this point, though certainly something we're considering.

Kaìju2 votes

Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed the update to Luxs VO, I think the new lines are fun and fresh and if you guys do more it would be really nice, since new lines can be a smaller version of model updates. Like I know a lot of Ashes models are old and so the draw for Project was the new look but also the lines, and I know Shen, as well as many others would also love new dialogue so that they can feel more lively. Hope you guys do more VO updates and personally, I love the Poppy joke, so more I that, I Wana play her only for her joke.

brat dazni2 votes

udyr changes? hes a bit weak atm

väike paks beebi2 votes

Make Udyr relevant again please <3 Udyr item 3151

Rabblerouser2 votes

So you're actually balancing around MF support?

Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votes

I just saw the changes to Warlord's Bloodlust on the PBE. I assume your reasoning is the same for heals on heal-dependent champions like Vladimir and Swain? However, Warlord's is supposed to be picked by champions who primarily deal damage. And while champions with a lot of Attack Damage naturally do that (fulfilling that requirement), this change would just nerf champions who seek to reduce the amount of damage dealt, like Tanks through Resistances and some Supports through damage reduction (Exhaust, Sona, Kayle, Taric, etc.). Depending on how well live Warlord's Bloodlust fairs, would you reconsider the current changes on the PBE for their sake?

######If not, would you at least consider reducing the values? Because this is a buff in 100% of the time.

RiotMeddler3 votes

The changes currently on the PBE are pretty experimental (highly likely too much of a buff in general). We're interested in whether straight lifesteal is the appropriate method (leads to issues against tanky champs you're trying to kite, massive spikes if used on a minion with no armor). It's not clear how much of a problem that is or isn't yet though, so we're exploring to give ourselves understood options if needed.

Illâoi Evê Siôn2 votes

The minion issue could be solved with more traditional solutions like half effectiveness or a cap, but I'd understand why you might not be satisfied with that and are experimenting instead (trying out different options is always good). Thank you for the explanation.

SB Arneeman1 votes

When are you going to balance Zed? He's very strong and popular right now and with extremely low counterplay compared to many other assassins.

Brionthegod2 votes

[{quoted}](name=SB Arneeman,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=Qa21ePAW,comment-id=006d,timestamp=2017-03-11T13:08:18.230+0000)

When are you going to balance Zed? He's very strong and popular right now and with extremely low counterplay compared to many other assassins.

Zed is strong? Hes been always popular. Extremely low counterplay?!!? You can dodge all of his abilities and exhaust him plus Zhonya. Like im not sure if you`re a silver player, but if you are i suggest you just learn to play against Zed insted of crying that hes strong or whatever.

OP.GG says that he has a 46.5% win rate which is borderline bad.

The issue with Zed is you not knowing how to play against him or you playing immobile mages that cant do anything against him. Thats like saying "oh im playing Tryndamere versus Pantheon and i cant do anything please nerf him".

Zed is supposed to win immobile mages or Ads since its harder to dodge his Qs. Plus he can only become strong if he snowballs really hard and in the end when late game comes he cant do anything in a teamfight except try and pick off someone which happens often in low elo.

My tip for you is to get some friend or something that can play zed and 1v1 him on your main midlane champs, If you play Ads then i suggest you get a support or mid lane duo.

And to be honest Zed compared to champions ilke Graves / Quinn / Talon / Kha'zix / Shaco / Lee / Leblanc is nothing.

Kha zix has almost no counter play if you try to split push or solo rotate.

Quinn can fly with 700 MS and roam around and just has to hit her Q and then you`re dead.

Talon has a bit counterplay but he can still just R in a bush come next to you Auto / Q / W / Auto and kill you.

Graves can simply just press Q / R and half of your backline squishies die.

Shaco is really strong with leathality and can dish out tons of damage in a low period of time while invisible.

Leblanc is really strong, even tho she got nerfed i still think shes decent.

Lee sin can simply Q / Flash / R / Q / E and kill you but hes similar to Zed he has to hit his Q in order to dish out any damage. But hes better than zed cause hes a jungler with insane jungle pressure and low counterplay when it comes to combos. The counterplay itself comes from him failing his combos.

So i dont think Zed is a champion that deserves a nerf. He has to ult you and then hit all of his abilities in order to kill you otherwise he cant do anything except right click for another 5 seconds.

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