Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14

RiotMeddler·Jun 14, 2019·1 votes·128,696 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Teamfight Tactics

As you've probably seen we're working on a new game mode we're calling Teamfight Tactics. If that doesn't ring a bell, this link here's worth checking out:

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/teamfight-tactics

We're getting really close to PBE for TFT and are very excited to start getting direct feedback on how it's going from you folks. For context we'll be treating TFT when it goes live (not just PBE) as still being in beta. It'll be representative of the sort of experience we think it should offer and we think it's a lot of fun already. It's not finished yet though and plan is to work on it really publicly. That means you'll see some stuff that's looking really polished and some things that are clearly work in progress. There might be some art that needs polishing still for example, bugs you wouldn't expect from a finished mode, some units that haven't been balanced yet etc.

Our thinking is that it's better to get the mode into peoples hands, with some things still work in progress, so we can start getting wider feedback. Right now's the ideal time to be making changes, whether that's modifying some game rules, addressing particular frustration points, changing how particular units behave or whatever. Plan is you'll see frequent updates, both on PBE and in the patches afterwards, and a lot of communication from us around where things are up to, what we're planning next and what feedback would be especially helpful on.

Looking at 9.12 so far

Ok, back to more regular topics now for a bit with some brief initial thoughts on where some champs have landed so far in 9.12:

Mordekaiser

Clearly OP and by the time you're reading this we've probably already nerfed him. Looks out of line by a clear margin in at least two positions.

Aatrox and Tahm Kench

Are both looking meaningfully weaker post changes, though not massively so. That's what we were hoping for this round, no immediate follow up changes planned.

Karma and Zac

Other side of the coin, they're both looking quite a bit stronger, so far that change has also been to the extent we were hoping, so no immediate follow ups planned here either.

Sylas

Looks significantly weaker. Plan at present is to let him sit for a patch (so no 9.13 changes) then reconsider for 9.14 once things have stabilized.

Yuumi

Had a couple of significant bugs, in particular one where her mana cost for Q was doubled when attached. We've fixed that, now waiting to see how she's doing.

Ryze

Seems to be performing about as well as previously in solo queue. Given some need to relearn his kit that suggests changes were likely an overall power increase and we'll see him looking stronger in the coming weeks. Remains to be seen if these changes have finally addressed how big his pro versus regular play performance gap is or whether he remains the poster child for problems in that regard.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

218 Comments

YoungGoobyJun 14, 201943 votes

Vladimir is seriously overpowered. His laning is far too strong for how hard he scales. He forces ADCs into a weird spot where they need executioners to kill vlad, and hexdrinker to survive, but due to limited item slots they're forced to choose one. He is very frustrating to play against due to his lack of skillshots, and it is not particularly fun or interactive to get one-shot by a champion that goes untargetable for 5 seconds (zhonyas + W). I've been perplexed as to why Vlad has not been nerfed when riven and vayne both have been.

TioymJun 14, 201930 votes

What's the Plan for Akali. It's pretty rude to gut a champion and then not even respond to the people who play it.

RiotMeddlerJun 14, 201941 votes

We're not happy with the current state of Akali either. Don't have plans ready to share just yet, do have some stuff being tested though. Timeframe of possible release uncertain.

AnOaklandRaiderJun 14, 201921 votes

Why can't you just revert her? She was fine before hand. You already made your money from the kda skins. I just want my baby back.

TheSingularityJun 15, 20197 votes

She wasn't fine beforehand. She was an unhealthy stat stick that couldn't be allowed to be decent and if she was she'd see a yasuo level ban rate

AnOaklandRaiderJun 14, 201922 votes

Is there a possibility of just adding the old Akali kit to the game? Have two versions of the champion? Doing this for reworks makes it so people who have fallen in love with a champ are not lost in the abyss of champ select. Personal experience I have less fun with League ever since the Akali rework. The visual update is fine.

TheSingularityJun 15, 20196 votes

If the kit they removed wasn't as obnoxious and unhealthy as it was, possibly? But like many of their reworks they're removing something that just doesn't work.

Is current akali any better given her brief history? Yes as they still created a champion that could be played around, but made the mistake of giving her burst per second.

NOnameSELECTEDJun 14, 20193 votes

Just revert her, or make a new assassin with healing, that was the worst kinda post rework changes to ever happen champion design wise, Akali was that one assassin with actual healing in her kit and you just took that away because kit is broken on a very basic level and you will never be able to buff her due to amount of team fight presence making her op, she is gonna be new Ryze of solo q, expect her winrate to stay on low numbers and low pick rate meaning even OTP's won't be able to actually climb unless they are godlike on a champion. BUT if they are then they would probably just be better off playing other champs. (yes I do realize this is gonna be downvoted to the oblivion but no one at riot is willing to interact with subreddits of champions and they just sit on the main page all day)

Demonblade YasuoJun 14, 20194 votes

I'm gonna be real with you Meddler, I just don't see Irelia or Akali's kits ever being balanced. Their kits are just too problematic and they're both better off being reworked again which there's no shame in. Irelia should be pure slayer and Akali should be pure assassin, this way they aren't unkillable war machines but can still outplay and do heavy damage.

PredatoratorJun 14, 201912 votes

{quoted}

What's the Plan for Akali. It's pretty rude to gut a champion and then not even respond to the people who play it.

Well, welcome to the club Skarner

Raven RedeemedJun 14, 20194 votes

I don’t think Skarner is gutted. He has the best jg winrate plat+ (According to op.gg at least) and is even picked up by the pros. That being said his kit feels pretty bland.

AIQJun 14, 201914 votes

Hey Meddler,

With Warwick he has a slew of Gameplay bugs affecting him ATM especially on his W. Are these being looked into?

Since Shyvana lost the Vote. Is it possible to get 3 QOL buffs? The Elder Drake Scaling (I don't know if you remember that.) Total AD on her W ratio so AP/On-hit Shyvana is more seamless. And Gaining fury while dead. Shyvana is the only champion who's ult Cooldown stops while dead.

Oh and how's jungle seen on a "Riot" level? Thanks

xCrunchyJun 14, 201912 votes

Hey meddler,

Since Lux is dominating the last weeks more and more on support.. will we get a nerf? Personally i think its just aftershock that makes her so strong... its sad for midlane lux if she gets a nerf.

Also do you have plans on Sivir / Jinx ? Both pretty dominating adc role atm.

Groove CrusaderJun 14, 201912 votes

Hey Meddler, since work was just done on him and presumably he's being watched post-patch, would it be possible if someone gave Aatrox a look over for bug fixes on his original skins?

Namely that the walk animation loop is broken but was fixed for Bloodmoon only. His vanilla skin is my favorite and it's a shame that the animation looks janky at times.

Nibbie217Jun 14, 20196 votes

This. I really don't like how an animation fix for the champ got shipped ONLY for a paid skin, but I would love if the teleporting hand could be fixed.

ModThe DjinnJun 14, 20197 votes

VERY weird question: Can you explain how the name Teamfight Tactics was chosen? I see a lot of potential for confusion on whether or not a discussion of "Teamfight Tactics" is relevant to League of Legends teamfighting strategies or this new game (and, in fact, we're already seeing this on the Teamfight Tactics board here).

RiotMeddlerJun 14, 20198 votes

We wanted something that suggested a focus on decision making (tactics) and implied combat between groups. Possible confusion was something we talked about, but figured after an brief adaptation period probably wouldn't be an issue, especially since we're assuming longer term it'll just be TFT to most people in the same way SR, TT, ARAM are used as shorthands.

EleshakaiJun 14, 20192 votes

TFT will always be The Frozen Throne to me.... lol (but I guess I'm dating myself with this, so it won't be a problem for most ;))

WinterkillJun 14, 20197 votes

The changes to Karma are nothing more than another excuse for Developers to ignore her problems for another year. You are aware of the problems with Karma's kit, gameplay identity, bland gameplay and problems with some mantra. These changes just make Karma even more annoying to play against, because numbers buffing a problem champion is not fixing their problms. You are just makjng them more annoying to play against.

I don't understand why half of the rework for her was cancelled. You can literally put that rework on the PBE at this point because the Karma community is just done with the back and fourth buffs and nerfs. You will nerf something on here in a few weeks because of the buffs and you only looked at her for a ridiculous buft because of a skin. Do you care?

XenosaurusJun 14, 20196 votes

As a Tahm Kench player I appreciate you still letting me keep auto winning lanes for freelo

On behalf of everyone else I have to ask you what's wrong with you. The champ is clearly overpowered. If I can all in a Darius at level 3, chase him into his next minion wave, miss my Q stun and still kill him while being only vaguely in danger I feel like there is an issue.

IloonioJun 14, 20195 votes

Any changes for Swain in the works?

RiotMeddlerJun 14, 201910 votes

Possibly. We've got someone testing out potential ult changes where Soul collection's more about long term permanent increases to ult power than large modifications to damage of the next cast, plus the ult draining 4 targets and 11 and 5 at 16. Not sure how those are working out, haven't personally seen them in game (my playtesting time's been heavy focused on TFT recently).

Daedric EtwahlJun 14, 20195 votes

Been curious for a while, actually surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but what are you guys' thoughts on Sona+Taric/Other Relic support botlane, and/or on Sona's current state as a whole?

RiotMeddlerJun 14, 201913 votes

Oh, yeah, that's a good one. I don't want to just share my personal opinion, lemme talk with a few folks and get something into a post next week.

Daedric EtwahlJun 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Oh, yeah, that's a good one. I don't want to just share my personal opinion, lemme talk with a few folks and get something into a post next week.

Thanks!

cùm dumpsterJun 14, 20195 votes

Please don't nerf Taric or Sona, just disable the support item interaction with each other, like if there are 2 support items in the vicinity of each other, their passives get disabled, so it can't be abused anymore.

Stealthy MonkeyJun 14, 20195 votes

What do you think about the current changes on wukong PBE ? Have you planned to do more things on him? I hope to see him soon on live :) Thanks!

mkwstarJun 14, 20195 votes

Hello Meddler!

Yet again, as per u.gg, Riven has risen back to a 53% winrate in Diamond+, also hovering around a 10% Pick rate and a 12.5% ban rate. Obviously, Riven players have adapted to the change, which was first seen as a nerf, but now is completely power-neutral, or might even have been a buff.

Do you and the balance team think these numbers should be brought down a notch?

Thank you!

Valor BotJun 14, 20194 votes

Any thoughts on Quinn?

BITEZ ZA DUSTOJun 14, 20194 votes

Hello Meddler anything at all on Syndra ? Any news on the proposed W changes after the last W "bug fix" ended up hurting her, any actual real bug fixes or comments on her performance in general because there is pretty large and clear difference between her in proplay and SoloQ. Plans to make her more Solo Q orientated or help in anyway?

Rathar DashingJun 14, 20193 votes

How will TFT be supported by out-of-game mechanics? For example, do you earn any champion mastery, how much XP would you get for win/loss, and would you earn tokens for events? Would there be any TFT exclusive missions, and would TFT games count towards other kinds of missions like "play as Sona" or "get 10 kills" stuff?

RiotMeddlerJun 14, 20196 votes

Current thinking is we'll generally be keeping TFT systems separate from those of other game modes. You won't earn champion mastery for example because you're not playing as a specific champion. Missions wise TFT will probably have its own unique sets of missions, rather than overlapping with regular ones, though can imagine might do some at some point that could be completed in either context.

KadexeJun 14, 20193 votes

Toplane Tahm Kench is still disgustingly strong against other melees.

XJ99999999999999Jun 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Toplane Tahm Kench is still disgustingly strong against other melees.

build a null magic mantle.

XenosaurusJun 14, 20191 votes

just means he takes longer to kill you, still won't let you run away

XJ99999999999999Jun 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

just means he takes longer to kill you, still won't let you run away

then you over extended. Boots of swiftness or merc treads are good. Can also opt for the keystone that reduces slows by a ton and has a short CD.

it's a bit odd that top tahm hasn't really been picked (dont think so but I havent watched all the pro games) but everyones complaining he's an issue. I just feel like he's such a silly looking champion with a weird kit that people aren't used to fighting him or building properly.

Everyone wants tahm nerfed but when the Yi change/nerfs came by everyone freaked out and just said "just cc him". hmm

PredatoratorJun 14, 20193 votes

Hello! Any thoughts on skarner Skarner and his spires gating him away from laning? thanks!

ShahamutJun 16, 20192 votes

This please x10.

Spire gate Lack of base values on Q and W Terrible base value on ult. Terrible scaling on all his abilities Only viable skill to max is E, but is only good if you can close gap for stun.

Seriously, please address the scorpion

EDIT: Hi predatorator, looks like it's you and me again. XD

Bliss OceanJun 14, 20193 votes

Can we buff Wards again so we can actually have vision?

Strwbry KouhaiJun 14, 20193 votes

Any news on when there will be news on twisted treeline?

Is anyone looking at possible balance changes?

I understand that you do not want to cause confusion between gamemode/maps, but now even aram is getting +/‐ percent changes.

Also, you guys are looking at ap bruiser items. Is it possible that moonflair spellblade may be added to Summoners Rift? It seems like it could be decent if it were balanced for tbe rift.

AveryJun 14, 20193 votes

Any thoughts on Syndra?

Sir NopeJun 14, 20192 votes

Good Morning, Meddler.

Is jungle Mordekaiser a healthy position for him?

RiotMeddlerJun 14, 20192 votes

I suspect it probably will be once he's in a balanced state. Not sure he'll necessarily be that effective though once his kit's been tuned so it's not overbearing in lane.

DCYOUNG888Jun 14, 20192 votes

Off topic but did you watch this year's e3? If so, what are you most excited/hyped for? I am very excited for breath of the wild 2, fire emblem three houses, and the Smash bros ultimate dlc characters. However I became very frustrated/disappointed when Gamefreak announced that Pokemon Sword and Shield will not have all 800 plus pokemon in the game and that Mega evolutions and z moves won't be in there either.

RiotMeddlerJun 14, 20196 votes

BotW2, no contest for me. Elden Ring as clear second.

Z4ssoJun 14, 20192 votes

Hi Meddler, was wondering if it is possible for you to track & show the aggregate WR of all crit adcs by patch for the past few patches.

Think it would be interesting to see how the WR is affected by meta shifts from tank -> enchanter supports as well as effects of ER/small adc buffs.

On another note, any news on Diana?

VisigothJun 14, 20192 votes

Hey Meddler, what are your thought on the current state of the jungle, specifically XP? I know you guys wanted to decrease early presence from level 3 ganks and also prevent AFK farming being the most optimal strategy, but the outcome feels like farming your own jungle and efficient pathing just means nothing now. You can be 20 CS (5 whole camps, almost an entire full clear) up on the opposing jungler, but still a full level behind because soaking XP in a lane is so much better XP than actually farming your own XP. Similarly, it's basically impossible for junglers to keep up in XP with solo laners without just straight up farming solo lanes.

I believe the current jungle situation is also a source of a lot of woes of other lanes. Nobody likes getting spam ganked all game, but it's still the best method because sitting in bush for a minute straight while the enemy jungler farms his entire jungle doesn't even put you behind in XP. And because junglers are 95% of the time behind in level from solo laners, any carry jungler will risk being turned on and one-combo'd by the enemy solo laner when ganking, so this turns a lot of jungle attention to bot lane, because they can actually 1v1 an ADC consistently since they're usually around the same level. But for an ADC or Support, this is still just more frustrating because you get so much attention from junglers just because you're the only person that won't be 2, sometimes 3, level up.

I know balancing the jungle has proven to be a difficult challenge, but surely there's a happy medium between AFK farm being the best method and spam ganking 24/7 being the best method. At the very least, I would love for pathing outside of your first clear to have some meaning to it again. Right now the only time your pathing matters really hard is levels 1-3, primarily because Krugs lets you get to 3 earlier.

Generic NinjaJun 14, 20192 votes

Will we ever get official confirmation if crit still is planned to lose its RNG? When it was mentioned by Ghost Crawler back when he was the lead dev, it was a very important announcement, finally fixing one of the, if not the biggest problem with the entirety of the ADC role and by extent the game as a whole. Yet now it seems to have been forgotten alltogether, leaving the future of the stat, and whether it will be made healthy and if the removal of output randomness as a factor in fights still is coming has become uncertain.

Perma CCJun 14, 20192 votes

@Meddler: Can we please address this: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-discussion/PQXy7f7m-nightblue-gets-a-player-falsely-banned

Whomp3rJun 15, 20192 votes

any ideas on Balancing Syndra at all there was some talk in the past after her passive was reverted but not news since saying her reverted passive was a placeholder.