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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: October 19

RiotMeddler·10/19/2018, 3:47:14 PM·1 votes·149,264 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

Some non 'gameplay' content in these posts

As you might have noticed I've started adding a wider variety of content into these posts occasionally, in addition to talking about core gameplay topics like champion balance, items, the jungle etc. Recent examples include things like how we explored new VO for Miss Fortune, or how the popularity of different queues compares. That broadening is due to a few things.

  1. Wider topics like that seem to be of interest to a lot of players. I know some people aren't interested in them, but many are.
  2. There are some times of the year where there's just not that much gameplay wise to talk about. Right now for example patch to patch change is fairly low given we're focused on preseason development and Worlds is going on. We've already talked about preseason in some detail. We do still want to take the time to communicate with you folks though, so shifting focus a bit makes sense as a result.
  3. My role at Riot's changed since I started these posts. In particular I'm now better able to talk about some things that I didn't have enough context on previously to talk about confidently. There's still a lot of stuff I'm not the right person to cover (when is X champion getting a skin, can you unban my account, what's up with server maintenance etc). I'd like to share wider info as well that isn't just gameplay when I can when it feels like it might be of interest though.

Preseason changes and the PBE

Preseason changes will be on the PBE for longer the just the usual 2 week patch cycle. More details on that, and a run through of a lot of the changes, including many of the harder to spot numbers, next week. Changes are coming along well, still room to iterate and improve though, so feedback on them highly appreciated, especially early in their time on PBE.

Context on some 8.21 changes

We've added, or tested, some late changes to 8.21 as you might have seen. Wanted to share context on a few of them:

  • Aatrox - We looked at a couple of possible nerfs to Aatrox, both lower base MS and/or shorter ult duration. Ended up pulling both though to instead go for more testing and potentially a larger set of changes in 8.22.
  • Aurelion Sol - Taking a bit of power out, in particular making him more vulnerable early to being all in'd. Giving him a bit more regen to make his learning curve a bit less painful (newer players don't take advantage of going back to base to top up as much as they should on him, so regen is disproportionately valuable on them).
  • Irelia - Wanted to cut some power from her in all contexts (lanes, skill levels, different game phases, etc). Mobility looks a bit high, so hitting her base MS by 5 as a result. One of those changes that looks very small on paper but for some champs does have a pretty meaningful impact. Will reassess once its live, see if more is needed or not, with W CD a possible second target.
  • Zac - Buffing Q damage, both base a bit and rankup. Base is aimed at giving a little more early power, rank up at reducing the discrepancy between Q as 2nd max versus 3rd max.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

208 Comments

Sir Nope10/19/2018, 3:58:01 PM15 votes

Context for Ivern buffs?

And speaking of jungle supports, will jungler wards ever return?

Samtarkras10/19/2018, 4:02:59 PM14 votes

Was there any other changes being tested for Aurelion Nerfs? I feel really sceptical about making Aurelion Sol easier to all in, especially in the early game. I play him a decent amount and I know that when your lane opponent gets in your range, you literally can't do anything unless you have flash, ult, zhonya's, or an ally who can help protect you, and it is the worst feeling ever losing because you physically can't fight your opponent at that point. I know that weakness of 'being in his zone' is crucial to his counter play against him but still, I feel like if you made his strengths weaker instead of his already glaring weakness more apparent the changes would feel better. That being said I have no idea what changes you are actually doing to him aside from the regen you mentioned above, so it might not have as negative effect as I am thinking. Thanks for doing all the work you do on league, hope you reply!

Porkys10/19/2018, 4:33:04 PM10 votes

Can Draven be able to ping his adoration passive how many stacks and how much gold you will receive for cashing in

For context https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/hdEgciZ2-adoration-draven-qol

knochenmarc10/19/2018, 3:58:48 PM10 votes

Do you have any informations about Rek'Sai RekSai you could share? Are there any plany to change her in the near future?

Ataraxas10/19/2018, 3:59:22 PM10 votes

Hey Meddler, could we get some statistics on the Odyssey event?

Also the client has been getting more laggy by the patch, any thoughts on fixing the client? It's EXTREMELY laggy currently.

DorkunedAuras10/19/2018, 3:58:34 PM8 votes

Rek'Sai skill curve and overall assessment of her right now? As someone who's stuck with her through the thick and thin, I'm extremely curious how you see her.

Lethality Aatrox10/19/2018, 4:16:10 PM8 votes

meddler, an important question that has been bugging me

is it ok if i spam urgotted in all chat if i kill someone as urgot?

Dope Solo10/20/2018, 12:49:24 AM7 votes

Zoe does not need and should not get buffs.

5050BS10/19/2018, 8:52:50 PM7 votes

Still no fix for Zyra?

B4410/20/2018, 9:21:30 AM6 votes

???????????? kaisa nerfs?????????????????

Lvl100 Scorbunny10/19/2018, 4:07:29 PM5 votes

any word on those corki buffs?

Salvor Hardın10/19/2018, 4:06:32 PM5 votes

Any spoilers on what runes do you plan to modify for the preseason?

I would also like to know if there is any buff or change planned for Sejuani Ryze Shen Gragas .

Have a nice Day!

Heimerdinger Bot10/19/2018, 5:08:26 PM5 votes

Hi Meddler, are there any current plans for Sejuani? Would love to hear what Riot plans to do with Sejuani, she is in desperate need of buffs/changes. Thanks for any info.

shofaz10/19/2018, 3:48:18 PM4 votes

Hey meddler good morning. I just wanted to ask what you think of Viktor Top right now? For the first time in years he is actually truly viable in some way. I am asking because i want to know what direction you guys have in mind for Viktor. I don’t want to see Viktor nerfed especially since he is barely viable in the mid lane. Would you guys be ok with Viktor Top or would you guys try to shift some of his power to make him more viable mid lane? Would you guys look at him after preseason? Just gonna ask since I’m pretty sure u guys have already noticed so this post wont be the reason Viktor will be nerfed. Anyway thanks for any reply! And have a good Friday and weekend!

WindLord707010/19/2018, 3:57:48 PM4 votes

I posted this last time but I wanna re post in case you didn't see it. Since preseason is coming up I think this would be the prefect time to finally try some changes for lane nidalee. I want to talk about a few changes that could be made to nidalee to help her lane without affecting her jungle too hard. First I want to say I am not asking for jungle nidalee to be removed from the game. This is probably going to turn out as a wall of text and I apologize but this is something I feel very passionately about and I thank you for reading it.

I'll try to keep this listed so that the farther down it goes the more work/stronger the changes are.

  1. Making her traps not proc from lane minions. This change doesn't give her a massive power spike in lane but it does open up more chances to trade which currently she really lacks and is one of the huge reasons why she can't lane well. It's also something that is easy enough to play around. Maybe change her traps so they aren't invisible anymore. This would not give jungle nidalee any power really as she wouldn't be able to just walk in lane and throw a trap down during a gank or even pre place one within a minion wave anyway.

  2. Reducing her mana costs. This is another thing that really hurts her in lane. She can't sustain or throw enough spears to even try to land one. This wouldn't affect jungle nidalee that much due to the amount of mana options she has in the jungle anyway. Even her first clear you rarely run out of mana unless you just don't know what you are doing. this could also slightly reduce the gap in abusive nidalee players and ones just playing her randomly since good nidalee players aren't using a ton of mana anyway.

  3. Refund mana with Human Q when killing a lane minion. Any kind of refund would be a huge help for lane nidalee whether its full or half or whatever number you would decide. This one is pretty straight forward in how it helps farming. And there really isn't anyway for it to be abused as a jungler.

  4. Buffing her attack speed slightly. This helps top nidalee more than mid but it still will help them both farm easier/safer. this could be slightly more powerful on jungle nidalee than one might expect but she also lost the attack speed from the jungle item change awhile ago. Now I'll talk about some bigger changes that could be made.

  5. Changing her from a power farming monster to being more focused around counter jungling. This would be something like reducing her damage to jungle camps and just buffing her damage in general. This clearly helps lane nidalee since she would gain actual damage in lane. And for jungle it creates a more clear playstyle with strengths and weaknesses. This one will probably be pretty controversial and I understand that. As someone who has seen their own main champion have a change in gameplay.

  6. This last one I'm going to talk about would require the most amount of work by far and I don't even know if riot could do it as I don't know anything about coding and what not. Giving her 2 very clear ways of balancing both Lane nidalee and jungle nidalee separately. The idea here is to give her some type of condition that needs to be met to change the way her abilities work. Similar to kayn. You could at the start of the gave have the player choose between two different "adaptations". Jungle adapt and Lane adapt.

Jungle adapt would make it so her passive works the way it currently does and lets her passive apply to monsters. This way no matter what changes you make to the other she has to pick the jungle one if she wants to jungle.

Lane adapt could have any number of things. Any of the things mentioned above. Auto resets back/lowered Cds/Buffed heal/buffed damage. Maybe even reduce her damage to monsters until level 6 to make sure jungle nidalee never takes this adaptation.

This would also keep in line with her "theme" since some people don't like things "breaking lore"

The condition could also be something else. An example would be having nidalee as she currently is but if she farms X amount of lane minions before killing any jungle camps she would adapt to lane.

Sorry for the wall of text but thank you for reading.

Quintervention10/19/2018, 9:42:40 PM4 votes

You mentioned in a previous post that you were thinking about making jungle camps spawn earlier so people don't stand around doing nothing before minions and camps spawn. I totally understand the rationale behind this, but as a Shaco player I have to ask: Is our favorite clown going to be compensated somehow, either in numbers or with a mini-rework of his boxes?

I completely see how the game as a whole might benefit from spawn times being earlier, but Shaco NEEDS the extra time to set up his first clear, and if camp spawns are earlier thus not allowing him to put down four boxes, his first clear is severely hindered. The champion thus far has been balanced with his strong and/or versatile first clear in mind, and he needs the pre-spawn time to enable this, so making the proposed change could essentially gut Shaco unless he's compensated in other ways. He already struggles enough in the early game because it's so easy to fall behind on him.

What if the boxes were changed to a "charge" system similar to other champions' traps, and upon first level-up he received two traps? This would allow you to push the spawn times forward without gutting his first clear.

Darkomantis10/20/2018, 5:02:09 PM4 votes

Meddler, is it possible for us to have Ascension again? I bought skins specifically for Ascension but with no return, I don't feel inclined to spend money on the game. In one of the previous Dev Corner threads over a year ago, it was said that Riot was working on making RGM available in custom games. Is it possible to get an ETA on that?

atlıkarınca10/19/2018, 3:55:47 PM3 votes

So this means Lissandra's passive next cycle isn't there? Because you were going to call us when you were ready.

Destello Azul10/19/2018, 8:52:11 PM3 votes

{quoted}

  • Irelia - Wanted to cut some power from her in all contexts (lanes, skill levels, different game phases, etc). Mobility looks a bit high, so hitting her base MS by 5 as a result. One of those changes that looks very small on paper but for some champs does have a pretty meaningful impact. Will reassess once its live, see if more is needed or not, with W CD a possible second target.

Imo you won't solve the problem about mobility, becuase item 3078. To solve it, increse th Q cd in 4 seconds if fail, and pls change the W values, 50% damage reduction at level 1 is retardet. Change it to 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 %. TY.

MetaKaizer10/19/2018, 4:28:34 PM3 votes

There have been a few running animation updates floating around. What are the plans with those and are there more coming in the future?

Aboreen10/19/2018, 8:55:24 PM3 votes

I'm not exactly sure why Aatrox would deserve more nerfs? He's below 48% wr in top/mid soloq, and it's not like he's dominating the pro-scene by any means of the word. You've constantly be smacking him down, trying to instill more of his power into his ultimate and now you're going to nerf his ultimate on top of all that? That not only seems unnecessary, it's almost insulting. He's more nerfed than his worlds counterpart right now and knowing the trend from balance team he's going to feel more before he gets left alone.

To think this is the same team that took their sweet time to nerf Zoe in any meaningful way is hilarious (not to mention her pending buffs that will almost certainly go through).

voltzalotz10/20/2018, 5:26:24 AM2 votes

When Morde rework comes out can you guys also update shadow isles lore, do a harrowing event and release a pentakill album?

Raaven The Red10/20/2018, 11:02:57 AM2 votes

You buffed Aatrox not too long ago and now you want to nerf him again? Is this some kind of a bad joke? Just fix his joke and taunt and give him some new skins maybe. That's all he needs. If Master Yi, Yasuo, Darius and Fiora can be overpowered then I think Aatrox deserves to have a little dominant power as well. But of course it's just my honest oppinion.

Gnart Even Close10/19/2018, 4:16:30 PM1 votes

Hi Meddler, is there anything you can share about the Gnar work that was cancelled and how you feel about Gnar's current balance of power between Mini and Mega?

Would you consider doing a relatively simple changelist like: Mini:

  • Base movement speed -> 335 from 335-355

  • Hyper % HP damage -> 6-12% from 6-14%

  • Hyper movement speed bonus -> 30-60% from 30-75%

Mega:

  • Boulder Toss AD ratio -> 1.3 from 1.2

  • GNAR! AD ratio -> 0.5 total AD from 0.2 bonus AD