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Quick Gameplay Thoughts: Feb 16

RiotMeddler·2/16/2017, 6:02:16 PM·1 votes·45,373 views

Hi folks,

Figured I'd try something different for the next week or so and, when I've got a bit of forum time, spend a chunk of it putting together a quick post about some of the things we're currently thinking about or working on. These posts won't be comprehensive, or go into all the details, but are instead an experiment in getting quick updates out regularly. Feedback on the format appreciated.

So, some thoughts for today:

7.5

  • We've been doing some balance planning for patch 7.5 in the last couple of days. Particularly noteworthy targets include likely nerfs to Edge of Night and Varus and continuation of work on Fizz and Blade of the Ruined King that wasn't ready in time for 7.4.

Practice Tool

  • In addition to its other benefits practice tool has also resulted in some really comprehensive bug reports from some players which is highly appreciated. Player investigation into an MF bug that cropped up in ESports recently for example made getting a fix in for that much quicker and smoother than it would otherwise have been (we didn't have to spend anywhere near as much time digging into exactly what was going on and could get to finding a solution quicker).

Defensive Items

  • We're currently testing taking a moderate amount of power amount out of defensive stats on items (Health, MR, Armor) and adding some of that to base stats on Vanguards, Wardens and Juggernauts at least (possibly some others if testing goes well, to be determined). Goal there is to make it so those classes that need to be a certain level of tankiness to function in the first place get to that point more consistently, while also not becoming close to immortal if they get too large a lead. Showing some promise and some potential problems, but definitely looks worth further testing as a possible mid-season change.

Non gameplay: Zaun stories

  • I'm a bit behind, but finally got round to reading through a bunch of the Zaun stories that went up on the Universe site recently. For anyone interested in that side of things I'd particularly recommend checking out the Mundo piece, really enjoyed that one despite a lack of previous interest in Mundo thematically:

http://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_PH/story/drmundo-color-story/

135 Comments

Pluid2/16/2017, 9:27:39 PM36 votes

Please don't give VarusVarus the SejuaniSejuani +Cinderhulkitem 1401 treatment. Varus is only broken right now because of how ridiculous lethality is. His ADC build was fine, as well as his other offbuilds. Before the lethality buffs, caster Varus wasn't even in a good spot. All I ask is that you see that Lethality and the items(item 3142 item 3814 ) are the problem, and not Varus.

Sahn Uzal2/16/2017, 6:10:45 PM16 votes

I honestly think % Pen is an issue currently. It's current state results in Tanks feeling overwhelming to face during the midgame, but once folks get to buy their % pen items, Tanks (And JuggerNoots) will feel underwhelming to play.

Is this something you guys are looking into for the mid season update?

Shadòw2/16/2017, 6:05:41 PM10 votes

will there ever be multiplayer support on practice tool?

I know that it's main purpose is for practicing, but it wouldn't do any harm, would it? is it not multiplayer because of stability issues or wouldn't that be a problem?

I really hope we will get multiplayer practice tool once. I mean, just think of all the possibilities you could do in there with friends. this would take custom gamemodes to a whole new level.

Yadid2/16/2017, 10:48:21 PM6 votes

I LOVE this. This is, in fact, what I'm used to from the Artix Entertainment company (which I've seen on Reddit, I'm not alone in). Weekly updates nearly ensure transparency and build greater rapport with the community. PLEASE keep it up. <3

Over Innsmouth2/16/2017, 6:26:27 PM5 votes

Wanted to ask about Vladimir, in regards to someone previously referring to him (and Swain) as Juggermages. Since you're doing some stuff with the bases of Juggernauts and Tanks, would Vladimir (who even prior to the introduction of the Juggernaut concept was very much though of as a tank/mage mage/tank) be a part of that at all?

serenity72/16/2017, 6:11:53 PM3 votes

Glad to hear that edge of night is going to be looked at, and varus as well. How do you guys feel about Miss Fortune's state right now? She seems extremely strong with lethality.

IxtaliKing2/17/2017, 3:14:16 AM3 votes

Meddler, how do you feel about Karma Karma now? You once said she wasn't sufficiently satisfying or distinct, do you still feel this way after the tweaks she's had since?

Rebonack2/16/2017, 6:10:09 PM3 votes

Is the intention to just hit pure tank items on their stats (item 3047 item 3065 ect) or are all items with any defensive component going to get nailed (item 3091 item 3090 )?

Bjartan2/16/2017, 6:13:43 PM3 votes

Can I send you a private message Meddler ?

WarWork2/16/2017, 6:56:16 PM3 votes

Thoughts on Warwick?

Hellioning2/16/2017, 11:11:57 PM2 votes

I understand the ideas behind 'lower defensive stats on items, increase them on champs', but I worry that this will merely result in defense scaling even worse than it currently does. If I get even less, statwise, out of getting a kill on rammus than my midlaner, it'll mean that any kills I do take is a mistake.

Awesomedude88882/16/2017, 11:57:02 PM2 votes

Any thoughts on Crit/AA-based ADCs?

Dragonhace2/16/2017, 11:57:34 PM2 votes

Yes please on the base stats increase. It's just silly how the arrow sniper Varus has almost the same health and more armor per level than the frontline ninja Shen.

Malicious Metal2/16/2017, 9:57:21 PM2 votes

Wouldn't just upping Tanky champion's base stats and lowering the tankiness of items result in them just, well, buying damage?

warpenguin5552/16/2017, 6:27:15 PM2 votes

So lethality isn't getting nerfed?

Akenero2/16/2017, 6:34:49 PM2 votes

This is a very interesting idea, but, why is riot so open about their thoughts now? We have dev blogs, the Nexus page, dev diaries on YouTube, it's super refreshing to see. But why has it taken this long to do these things? Have you only recently decided that telling players about the inner workings is worth doing?(sorry if this potentially seems antagonistic, it's not supposed to be, honestly!)

Lord Desert2/16/2017, 6:56:43 PM2 votes

Will it be most of the Lethality item champs? From what I can judge Varus seems fine to me, he got a spike in popularity but his winrate and winrate over game length is fine. Quinn on the other hand has a to good winrate and also over game length, but her current popularity is still low but sees a high increase.

I personally think if you would just reduce the scaling from Lethality down to 50/50 it should be fine, since they spike a bit to early again and thus increaseing the snowball :/ But thats only what I can judge with my limited amount of information :D You guys have all the stats :P

I waited eagerly for a very long time for this Practice Tool! Im very happy with it, could use improvements in terms of what you can practice/test, but ill do a detailed post on this some time later. But a big thanks for this, my practice and testing became 10 million times faster :D And I have found a decent amount of bugs too, for example Cho's Q hitbox, but ill also do a detailed bug report for this too.

I have a personal question about the Giant Slayer passiv (500HP difference -> 1000HP), did you guys get this idea perhaps from a post of mine? The suspence is literally killing me inside xD I would freak out if that would be true! The post in questions is from a little series of mine featuring ideas to improve League, called "SummonersLab", and I explained and suggested exactly this change in the 10th part of the series. If you could enlighten me about this, I could finally close the window! (you will get it if you read part 11 :D)

Finally your long awaited feedback: Very awesome, please keep this format up! It is rather short but knowing in which direction your thoughts point is very helpfull. Also mentioning the things that you tested and failed or want to test is highly appreciated! This may cause some confusion in the beginning, since we normally only hear about more or less completely finished products and this is more of a "this could be" instead of a "this will be". I always disliked that every word from a rioter is weighted in gold, getting flamed if something isnt happing 100% like "promised". You guys are, believe it or not, only human too xD You cant fortell the future nor are omniscient! (as far as I know, might be wrong tho :P) This might help to make others see that you are "normal" persons too :D

Anyway thanks for the update, highly appreciate it!

DeathBurst2/16/2017, 9:25:38 PM2 votes

Figured I'd try something different for the next week or so and, when I've got a bit of forum time, spend a chunk of it putting together a quick post about some of the things we're currently thinking about or working on. These posts won't be comprehensive, or go into all the details, but are instead an experiment in getting quick updates out regularly. Feedback on the format appreciated.

The format sounds good. I mean, in the end if moobeat and/or the Red Tracker do their job of centralizing the relevant information correctly, it's kinda the same thing as before, but it's probably better to have some "standard" way to communicate with us players than to rely on surr@20. Btw, even if you're not directly concerned, this is a good opportunity to signal that for a couple months, Red Tracker is kinda flooded by individual answers from Support and/or Bug Reports, so it lost a large amount of its initial usefulness (at least to me).

In addition to its other benefits practice tool has also resulted in some really comprehensive bug reports from some players which is highly appreciated.

Of course hindsight is 20/20, but it seems kinda obvious to me that this kind of things would happen... Does it really come out as a surprise to Rioters?

On the specific topics of today's post: the only thing relevant to me is defensive itemization. The path you're talking about seems good, but if this is linked to mid-season, why not go for something more drastic, like putting %amp on defensive items the same way it's currently done for some offensive items? Spellblade or Sterak have %baseAD, AS items also works with % of base. Why not make some Armor items give +X% of base Armor in addition to or instead of flat amounts?

+1 on Mundo story and Zaun in general

LankPants2/16/2017, 10:04:42 PM2 votes

Defensive Items

We're currently testing taking a moderate amount of power amount out of defensive stats on items (Health, MR, Armor) and adding some of that to base stats on Vanguards, Wardens and Juggernauts at least (possibly some others if testing goes well, to be determined). Goal there is to make it so those classes that need to be a certain level of tankiness to function in the first place get to that point more consistently, while also not becoming close to immortal if they get too large a lead. Showing some promise and some potential problems, but definitely looks worth further testing as a possible mid-season change.

Won't this lead to them just building offence and saying "fuck it, I'm tanky enough at base"?

Yandere Yandere2/16/2017, 10:49:16 PM2 votes

Why not change Lethality to 50/50 scaling from 60/40 scaling? The problem with Lethality is that it gives too much in the earlygame, making the trade off of AD non relevant (AD is suppose to be for earlygame, pen for lategame). And does Varus need nerfs? If Lethality and its items are finaly balanced, I think Varus will also be balanced becuz he is just an abuser.

Spideraxe2/16/2017, 7:29:39 PM1 votes

When you guys do get to Mundo will you guys make him more goofy to coincide with new Mundo lore

Puppet33r2/18/2017, 7:17:49 AM1 votes

Nerfing defensive items is probably the worst idea I've heard in a while. You are already holding meta by the balls. And now you want to completely murder any leftovers from more creative off-meta builds? Why?

Terror132/20/2017, 12:32:44 AM1 votes

So if said juggernauts and tanks and ect just build damage items, just means they can go full dmg and be even more tanky?

I don't go full tank I build GA, Spirit VIsage, and Sometimes Randuins on Aatrox, be nice not to lose all those stats I need for my balance of dmg/tankiness end game.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku2/21/2017, 3:26:08 PM1 votes

Feel free to nerf this Quinn