Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 21

RiotMeddler·Jul 21, 2017·1 votes·56,718 views

Hi all,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

More Runes Discussion

Most of you will probably have seen this already, in case you missed it though some intial discussion on the IP/economy side of things with the runes transition was posted yesterday though. Lot more details to come, particularly around what happens with runes themselves, post from Cactopus that's well worth checking out if you haven't read it here though:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/RlNQkO39-buying-runes-between-now-and-preseason

Also worth calling out was a post from Ghostcrawler in the replies, in particular since he discusses how we've been looking at runes in terms of their impact on Riot as a business a little bit.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/RlNQkO39-buying-runes-between-now-and-preseason?comment=0043

7.16 Balance Approach

We've just started work on looking at patch 7.16 balance work. Since 7.15's a pretty large patch more of the next patch cycle than usual will start out with a lot of analytical work, assessing what we need to respond to, rather than working on already defined issues. Things we'll be investigating include:

Champs that may be too dominant or got changes recently for being too dominant and need to be watched closely now - Jayce, Thresh, Galio, Elise, Kalista, Caitlyn
Position assessments - Is Cinderhulk overtuned and thereby impacting jungling too much, what should we do about some mid laners (Ori, Synda etc) who overly present/reliable choices, are many ranged champs who should be good supports struggling too much at present.
Duskblade - Do the 7.15 changes go far enough, how does its power compare for different types of users

More thoughts to follow after some investigation.

7.16 likely changes

In addition to that research there are also a few changes we'll be testing shortly including:

Malphite - Taking another crack at him, this time looking in part to get a bit more skill expression onto his kit (think things like the recent Garen W changes, at least in terms of goal). Probably power neutral ish, maybe slight buff?
Maokai - Likely nerfing, probably Q damage and/or CD. Will be dependent on that Cinderhulk analysis above though to ship or not ship (how much of it is Maokai being out of line, how much that particular item?)

Spectator clean up

Mentioned this a while ago, looks like it should be in 7.16. We'll be removing a few dozen team indicators from spectator view only, targeting things that just add unneeded clutter to the spectator experience. Rationale there is that LoL's already a really busy game visually, and anything unnecessary that's shown makes it harder to follow the necessary things. Changes will be hitting PBE soon, feedback much appreciated there, or on live after the patch goes out, if you notice anything that feels wrong (no longer seeing something really important, still seeing things of low value) . Changes include things like hiding the rings around Akali W or Kindred R because they're well defined already by existing spell effects. We're doing so now specifically because the next few patches will get a lot of use out of spectator in the competitive scene. These should also be improvements that are good for spectator in general in whatever context it's used of course.

318 Comments

ShadowParkerJul 21, 201714 votes

Any chance Ziggs could get an indicator on his satchel charge akin to blast cone?

SpideraxeJul 21, 201712 votes

Hey Meddler can i ask for your thoughts on several things. First off is Stoneplate/Locket combo since I've seen that been a sore point since the midseason, then on Viktor and lastly will you personally design another champion again. These are all a bit random

RiotMeddlerJul 21, 201717 votes

Stoneplate/Locket - At the very least strong. Unclear if that sort of strong you'd expect from combining effects in the right circumstances or too strong yet however.

Viktor - Another mage who's been tough to balance between organized play and regular. Expect we'll want to do some work on him at some point, probably looking at his wave clear in particular so we can give him more power elsewhere. That's a guess though, haven't picked the team's brains on him for a bit.

Another champ - It's pretty unlikely I'll personally do the game design on another champ. Doing so takes a lot of time and you need to be available to work with the rest of the team when needed too, so it's not always flexible time. That doesn't fit well with the responsibilities of my role now. I do miss getting to make stuff like that directly, getting to work with a wide range of folks and help them make stuff's been really cool too though.

QuephaJul 21, 20172 votes

{quoted}

probably looking at his wave clear in particular so we can give him more power elsewhere.

I feel like that's been tried before on more than one occasion and anytime his E with the upgrade doesn't nuke the wave he instantly becomes trash-tier.

RiotMeddlerJul 21, 20173 votes

Yep, such a change would assumedly mean giving him better, relevant strengths that aren't just E-ing the wave reliably, not just token other buffs.

MysticFlameHazeJul 21, 20175 votes

The main problem i see with viktor that people mostly talk about would be that if you dodge his E his Q still does just as much damage much quicker and leaves it feeling as what was the point in even trying to avoid that.

think of it in a case where you both are just about to die and you managed to avoid the E and would kill him but then well, his Q murders you anyway

nosafterburnJul 21, 20172 votes

wait.... what champ did you design?

RiotZenonTheStoicJul 21, 201719 votes

Meddler designed Elise, Varus, Ziggs, Lissandra, and Syndra.

SwarovskoJul 21, 20177 votes

Another champ - It's pretty unlikely I'll personally do the game design on another champ.

I loved ZIggs Lissandra and Syndra please don't tell me it's pretty unlikely MEDDIE PLS

Malicious MetalJul 21, 20179 votes

Oh, what's the current stance on Galio?

RiotMeddlerJul 21, 201711 votes

Was definitely too strong and a consistently good a pick. Unclear where he sits now so definitely needs monitoring.

KloqdqJul 21, 20172 votes

I think one possible change could be removing his Passive damage on turrets. May slow his pushing power that he has a lot of. Another solid change would be increasing Q mana a little since he just pushes far to easily at the moment.

RalanrJul 21, 20172 votes

I think reducing the base DR on his W and making it scale more with MR would work. Poppy's passive effects towers, why make it so Galio's cant?

KloqdqJul 21, 20171 votes

That could also work.

The reason why it shouldn't is due to his already amazing pushing power. A single Q and Passive proc can clear a wave easily within itself. Being able to smack the tower for extra just isn't something he should be doing. In a way, neither should Poppy. It just doesn't feel like it should be there when they removed stuff like that from other tanks. Tanks should be better at taking a Tower when they already have great wave clear. Fighters and Juggs should be allowed that option but not tanks.

RalanrJul 21, 20171 votes

It helps that Galio and Poppy don't actually have control over when their passive will hit the tower. Darius and Nasus will use their resets a lot more than Poppy or Galio.

KloqdqJul 21, 20171 votes

True. i'm just not 100% sure about that but I just don't see a valid reason to have it on their kit. It would impact their performance in a meaningful way though if they had a harder time smacking turrets down, which a tank should in my mind.

RalanrJul 21, 20171 votes

They have it hard enough because they don't build AD. A tank isn't going to push harder than a juggernaut or a fighter.

KloqdqJul 21, 20172 votes

maybe not poppy so much but that's one of galio's best traits - his amazing pushing power. Q and Passive just make getting minions to a tower so easy.

DeathBurstJul 22, 20172 votes

I think that's a good nerf for both Galio and Poppy, split pushing/tower taking isn't one of their intended core strengths, for neither of them.

Thing is, Galio might need the nerf right now, when Poppy doesn't. I'd say that small inconsistencies between Champs are fine if they lead to a more balanced game.

Rathar DashingJul 21, 20177 votes

Do you have any plans for Tristana?

RiotMeddlerJul 21, 20176 votes

No current balance plans. Could see her getting a small gameplay update someday, lot of other champs in much more need though.

Julius ZeppeliJul 21, 20177 votes

Since you guys are looking at Orianna/Syndra, do you have anything in store for Lost Chapter/Morellonomicon? The item has dominated mid lane for quite some time and really clamps out a lot of build diversity simply because the stats are too good to pass up.

warpenguin555Jul 21, 201715 votes

Not everybody gets much use out of ROA or Tear. Morellonomicon is the only mana choice for a good chunk of mages. They'd have to add an alternate AP/CDR/Mana item before nerfing Morellonomicon, otherwise Riot would just be nerfing about 90%- ish of mages

ProvidenceNoxJul 21, 20176 votes

Are there any plans to try and support Varus midlane? It used to be a semi-popular pick and was a great off-role for Varus. Despite the fact that Riot said they planned to support both midlane and ADC Varus, when Riot buffed him they buffed his passive, which only helped ADC Varus, then when they nerfed him because lethality was too strong, they nerfed Varus's arrow, which hurt midlane Varus more and ADC Varus. Midlane Varus is now dead because Riot messed up balancing Varus and only ended up only shifting too much power from his Q to his passive. Is there any way Varus midlane could get some attention?

CàneJul 21, 20175 votes

What do you think about Fiora after her nerfs?

RiotMeddlerJul 21, 201714 votes

Might have hit her too hard, nerfs did impact her a bit more than we expected. Considering giving a bit of power back in 7.16, not certain about that yet though.

LùmenJul 21, 20177 votes

Hey, I thought of R's movespeed being back but perhaps half the speed she gets from her passive so she won't get out of control too easily. What do you think?

ΡenguJul 21, 201718 votes

Can you please give us an idea of what you guys are thinking of giving her as a buff?

and if its giving her back the MS on ulti would it make it more balanced if the MS was only if Fiora was moving TOWARDS the enemy so she wouldnt use it to escape a trynda ulti or out kite someone who isnt quite as mobile like Garen or Darius.

WhulfmonJul 21, 20175 votes

Hey Meddler are you guys gonna do anything for Draven right now he is pretty much banned in 80% of the games i play and his winrate is sitting at 53% he can abuse anybuild he goes for and does what i honestly consider to much damage with just one item.

OstorrixJul 21, 20175 votes

While you're looking at very consistent/meta Mid picks I'm still wondering what you're doing with the others... Some days ago there was finally some information revealed about Azir to bring up some clarity. But what is happening to Ryze for example? Are we expecting a minor rework for his kit or just some adjustments regarding the numbers? I would be very thankful gor an answer.

LeyinJul 21, 20174 votes

Can we summ up that just smaller things will happen until Worlds and can you give some details about work and changes after the worlds?(specially pre-season[not runes])

RiotMeddlerJul 21, 20179 votes

Runes is going to be the big focus of pre-season. There'll be some other stuff in there too, but it will either be in support of runes (e.g. base stat or starting item changes) or smaller stuff (game health adjustments to items like Locket's MR aura removal last year etc). There won't be a class update or other major changes like we've done in the past (so nothing like Elemental Dragons or Plants or whatever).

DCYOUNG888Jul 21, 20173 votes

I thought riot was going to add in a new elemental dragon later on or was that next year?

RiotMeddlerJul 21, 20179 votes

That's a potential next year thing. Definitely want to do one, definitely won't be this year.

Impish YordleJul 21, 20174 votes

Any thoughts about Janna Janna being potentially too good of a soloQ pick right now? She has the highest winrate and the second-highest pick-rate of all supports. She also happens to be a popular pick for autofilled people due to her simple yet effective kit. Do you think she's too much of a low risk high reward pick at the moment? A lot of the recent support item changes may have pushed her over the edge and I hear a lot of talk about coin-line being very strong right now; potentially a bit too strong.

CátarinaJul 21, 201715 votes

I highly, very highly, doubt she's too strong. However, in a meta full of assassins (lethality buffs), she's one of the champions, if not the main champion, that you can expect to shine. If the meta shifts towards mages or tanks, then she's obviously going to be less effective.

iVeshaJul 21, 20173 votes

Anything about Evelynn ? Or you will write about she in next Quick Gameplay Thoughts ?

RiotMeddlerJul 21, 20178 votes

Evelynn's a VGU, so as with other large updates we'll be doing a bit of a teaser and a reveal just before she comes out (as we did with say Urgot recently). I'll avoid talking details about her update as a result to avoid stealing that team's thunder there, make sure they get the chance to talk about and present their work.

0namJul 22, 20173 votes

Can you give an approximation as for which patch can we expect the new Eve to hit the live servers?

UrfgotJul 21, 20173 votes

Regarding Spectator Clean Up, I have noticed while watching LCS that Sejuani's E range indicator displays when activated, causing a lot of visual noise. Any plans to fix this?

RiotCrabDustJul 21, 20176 votes

Sure, I'll look into it. Any others you've noticed?

remaJul 21, 20174 votes

Do you think you could add keystone icons next the character portrait in Spectator mode like LCK does it? Example here: Pic

Off ßrandJul 21, 20175 votes

It's always bothered me that you can see spell effects flying around where things like the Baron is through the Fog of War on spectator, you can't see that regularly without vision.

ScopéJul 21, 20172 votes

Hey Meddler, are the changes to Kindred that got reverted on the PBE coming back in the next cycle? It would be great to know what was your goal with that buff and why you had to revert it.

RiotMeddlerJul 21, 20174 votes

We were testing those buffs as an offset to a bug fix that, it was believed, would end up being a noticeable nerf. Conclusion was the impact of the bug fix should be pretty negligible however (E range being slightly higher than specified before Kindred had 4 passive stacks). We pulled the buffs as a result, though will reassess if that bug fix does have a noticeable effect on them.

smug jinx mainJul 21, 20171 votes

Hey Meddler, because I can't find an answer to this, how many Keystone runes are you trying to make and do you think you finally found a good spot for duskblade?

Also, have you been keeping an eye on Pantheon recently? because I think the lethality changes probably helped his already high win rate.

RiotMeddlerJul 21, 20179 votes

Current thinking is it'll most likely be 5 keystones in total (5 choices of path, with 3 keystones per path). That could still change though.

I suspect Duskblade will need further changes after 7.15, we'll see where those put it before committing to anything though.

AisleJul 21, 201710 votes

It's 15 not 5 right?

wet beanJul 23, 20171 votes

What do you think of doing in order to nerf Kalista? I do understand that her power in competitive is very prioritized, considering power objectives. However, I remember from a post in Ask Riot, that you guys found her weak, and that Riot doesn't like where she is at the moment. Do you still stand with that statement? Or do you think Kalista is too strong for both normal and competitive play?

RiotMeddlerJul 24, 20174 votes

We're not at the nerf Kalista stage yet, instead still in the watch Kalista and see if she's actually a problem or not stage. Does look like the discrepancy between her performance in organized and regular play is lower than it's been in the past, which is a good sign (means she should be more balanceable). We're still looking to do a small update on her at some point though.