Hi folks,
Thread here for discussion about the state of gameplay post that just went up:
I'll be responding to posts as time permits throughout the day if there's anything you'd like to discuss, questions on your mind etc.
Fondling Gems14 votesI think that adding 4 champs to the required number to play ranked isn't a bad thing. It means players have a bit more time to learn the game before diving into ranked. Just my input though.
On the topic of the clarity posts I feel like sometimes clarity has to be sacrificed for game knowledge. Honestly it still bugs me that I can't see how much health allied GP barrels have. Considering how much of an impact they have I feel that knowing that is pretty essential, especially at earlier levels when they take a few seconds to reach 1 health.
How do you feel on the topic of having a clarity toggle option? I personally would rather have all that information. However that is the way I play games. I love floods of info because that is how I focus. I am that guy who actually reads the FF14 battle log to see when my allies start casting spells, when they finish the casts, every buff/debuff in the game getting both applied and fading away. Most people don't like that info and for them clarity is the most useful. Some of us want to know just what area and Ally Corki Q is hitting in though. A toggle option for this would be wonderful imo.
RiotMeddler4 votesYeah, increasing number of champs required for ranked has some definite benefits. My personal suspicion is that that's probably at least as much a good thing as a bad, it's still something we need to assess though.
Clarity's one of those difficult values to work with. We do believe pretty strongly that showing everything is almost never the correct approach though, that ends up overloading a channel of information so badly it ceases to do anything useful. The buff bar's been a good example of that at times. When you get 10+ buffs on there it becomes really hard to pick out useful information quickly, so turns into a source of out of combat information primarily. Showing the few most important buffs by contrast shows less total information but conveys more.
In terms of optional toggles for some features that makes a lot of sense and seem really high value (e.g. player name display). There are others though where cost of implementing the option outweighs the occasional value it offers (e.g. a toggle to allow allies to see the range Rengar can leap from brush with his passive whenever it's available).
Regarding a combat log that's something I think's got some value, but as a separate feature that doesn't add noise to existing means of communication (not throwing a huge amount of info into the normal chat window for example). Priority on that's quite a bit lower than a lot of other projects we'd want to put time into first though.
Korend Slicks1 votesOut of curiosity, what would you think of having different pick and ban phases where it's like Ban two-Pick two and so on. It might be a good idea for pro play, since it might allow for potential increases in champion diversity. However, I'm not sure if it would even work for Solo/Dyna Queue, since that would definitely extend the champion select times. Might also cause a loss at champ select, which iirc Riot doesn't want that to occur at all (But it does happen on occasion).
RiotMeddler2 votesIt's an option, and a particularly appealing one in organized play where teams coordinate more and potentially have some information about their opponents. Not sure if it's as good a solution for regular ranked play though. Something we'll definitely be discussing.
Sahn Uzal6 votesI remember you (or Reav3, not sure) mention Yoricks rework would be in 6.19-6.21 before, but it was also mentioned that he could be in 6.18, but be disabled for worlds. Is it safe to say 6.18 Yorick rework is completely out of question now? :c
I was honestly really hoping for 6.18 Yorick after that E indicator got uploaded to PBE :c
RiotMeddler4 votesI'll leave talking about exact Yorick timing up to the Champ Up team. They're the ones who've put the vast majority of the time and thought in the project in so they should really be the ones who get to break that news as they think works best.
Sahn Uzal2 votesSounds more than fair enough to me! Im just so damn exited... :p
Eskimo5036 votesI think for the new Tower global "call for help", some special cases need to be accounted for- maybe damage over time ( 
, 
, 
) effects don't proc the global "call for help", as it would be cumbersome to wait for all enemies running back to base to stop bleeding in order to go back to attacking the turret.
RiotMeddler3 votesYeah, there's a range limit in there so that shouldn't be an issue (currently 1400, so slightly under vision range).
ntbcool5 votesThat's good and all but it would really suck if you pressure someone out of lane playing Darius and go to hit the tower and they just poke into range to force you off.
SUPERX4PANDA4 votesI remember reading/hearing somewhere that Stealth mechanics were planned as a major part of this preseason along with assassins (like how Keystones and Marksmen were shipped together or Jungle changes were the main theme of preseason before S5). I feel like that's what the "experimental" changes mentioned were but I was wondering if what I heard was just rumors or if it had any actual credibility.
Also, will a "Yorick Direction" kind of thread be posted as has been with the Mage, Assassins, and Ryze updates before any concrete changes go through, or has everything already been fairly set in stone? I'm not a major Yorick player but I'm still very excited for his and Warwick's reworks since they're really subtly cool when it comes to theme :3
RiotMeddler3 votesWe will be making some stealth changes, they won't be a major thing though overall. Significant to individual champions more than a big overhaul.
Yorick won't be getting a directional post well in advance like the class updates do. We take different approaches with the full updates than the class updates since one's effectively a rebuilding from the ground up and the other's a lot of adjustments to an existing kit. We do gather a lot of feedback for the full updates, particularly when first planning them, we've found other methods more effective though (surveys about the existing state of the champ, getting champion mains into the office to play prototype kits, research groups on concept art etc).
redniwediS4 votesWhat's your current perception of the balance between offensive and defensive stats? What sort of balance do you believe should be between them, and do you think the game is currently hitting that mark?
Offensive and defensive stats have changed a lot since League first launched, so I'm interested in hearing a bit more about how they apply to the current and future state of League.
RiotMeddler8 votesDefensive stats feel too universally effective, rather than being noticeably more useful on the classes that should benefit from them the most. That results in issues like tank Ekko/Fizz/Yasuo etc. Offensive stats by contrast tend (some exceptions) to be better focused. Will need to work on that at some point, though not sure if that'll involve systemic changes (how items work, what stats exist etc) or changes to individual champions and items (tanks get defensive abilities that scale with defensive stats to make those items more valuable on them etc).
Hige2 votesthis would be really interesting meddler since not every tank out there has a skill that scales with a defensive stat, mainly there's no magic resist scaling aside from Galio's passive, it'd be interesting if defensive scaling got remade into what AD scaling became after Riven!
Champion Skin2 votesThe most obvious thing is to use HP scaling as you can build HP regardless of if you are against Physical/Magic/True damage though of course it isn't the best to build HP if you are against % damage
RiotMeddler2 votesYeah, if we were going down that path we'd need to add defense from defense scalings to all those other tanks. That'd be a separate approach to how Riven focuses (defense from offense).
MrWaffler4 votesHi Meddler!
With the addition of tower first blood, I've been experiencing a more interactive and action-packed game early on in the bot-lane, which is a really good change I think. More champions that are good at facilitating ganks and pressuring early have taken over. In terms of snowballing, I actually don't think the tower first blood gold is what is causing the issue, more than the ease of dives that net kills, lost XP and gold for the killed parties, and then the first blood tower too. Towers almost seem weaker than an aggroed minion wave, with level 5 and 6 dives being executed regularly, and with minimal risk.
Do you feel the proposed AI change will be enough to add danger into earlier game dives and are there any other plans to look at towers to address how easily the tower itself is trivialized in the post-level 6 landscape in League?
Thank you for doing these, it is extremely informative and helpful to be a part of a living discussion on the future of League!
Laughing Fish4 votesGreetings Lord Meddler,
Are there currently any plans to make more anti-CC spells or items? For example, something like "Magi's Blessing" in Smite, which absorbs 1 hard CC or root effect every 70 seconds.
Thank you, a simple man who giggles at simple things.
Captain Lito3 votesWe still need some feedback on the proposed Aatrox changes, I seriously don't want all of the work everyone's put in to end up being useless. Please consider this Meddler, I know if there would be any time for changes to happen it would probably be post-6.22, but I want to make sure the dev team knows about the thread and are at least considering the changes that the PEOPLE WHO MAIN THE CHAMP have requested. There's a shit ton of rework-ideas too as well.
It's right here if you haven't seen it: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ORELUhXi-riot-spent-a-few-days-collaborating-with-aatrox-mains-reddit-on-aatroxs-status-heres-the-output
Stealthlly3 votesSome questions and concerns I have:
-If you overhaul runes will all our current runes be refunded, or what is the scale of changes we are looking at for runes? Right now it seems to me runes lack a little luster, with a small portion being useful and run all the time, while another portion of them are barely used. -Increasing bans to 10 could actually lock out one specific roles. Your team could ban out the 5 best ADCs at the current time leaving them guessing who to play. Is this healthy game-play? (You can already do this with 3, but its best not to because of other roles. When 4 more bans are added there is a lot more possibilities and variety available.) -Juggling turret aggro, to me, is a fun aspect of the game that makes it challenging to early tower dive. Huge risk with high reward. If made impossible to juggle it removes early tower dives and the huge risk/high reward becomes more suicide/maybe reward.
Just looking for some clarity in these.
"There is much to learn about this world." 
RiotMeddler7 votesWe don't have details yet on what we will or won't do with runes, how that would affect people's existing rune collections etc. It's something we'd want to talk about well in advance of actual changes though.
The potential for some roles to get effectively locked out is one of the big concerns that's been raised about 10 bans. We think it'll probably be ok, given the number of champions in each class at this point and that the extreme case requires both teams focus the same class. Need to confirm that though.
With you on agro juggling, both as something that drives cool play and a good skill to test. Concern is that at times/on some characters it can be too free.
MrWaffler4 votesDo you think that issue could be, at least partially, remedied by a staggered pick and ban session? Having teams ban a few champions, then pick a few champions, would prevent any Top-5 role shutouts from occurring. In fact, starting out with 5 or less bans then initiating a few picks would bring less of a chance of getting a role shut out than we currently have, where six bans are handed out before any picks occur. What are your thoughts on this?
Linna Excel3 votesThe potential for some roles to get effectively locked out is one of the big concerns that's been raised about 10 bans.
When I comes to subclasses though, 10 could ban out a role. Take healers. If I wanted to play one, it wouldn't be that hard for the other team to ban out Soraka, Sona, and Nami effectively banning me out from that role. If the jungle favored a meta, I could see that class of junglers have the potential for getting banned out. I could also see most of the better assassins getting banned out if an assassin meta came around. Those would be my main class concerns with 10 bans.
The other two problems I could see arising is it would be easier to ban out popular and OP champs firstly. Secondly is while this doesn't apply to most players, the LCS champ pool might shrink even more.
Since I want to be a solutions guy and not just a problem guy:
Can the system automatically ban out 10 champs instead of the players, maybe focusing slightly more on ones with high pick rates or high win rates?
Since players are assigned to a lane, maybe limit their bans to champs that show up in that lane. Going back to healers, the other support would be able to ban Soraka, but Sona and Nami are still open as long as I don't ban one of them. People would still be able to limit what they can face, but just for their lane.
DevlinCrow2 votesLinna Excel2 votesWhat day does the season end?
What lane is the big focus for preseason this year?
Why can't you update the runes and do the client at the same time? Is it the same team involved in both?
Who is going to get the victorious, championship, and challenger skins this year?
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was playing as Darius against a Maokai?
RiotMeddler3 votesNot sure yet on season end date. Sometime post Worlds certainly. Historically that's generally meant November.
Class updates are a big part of mid-seasons and pre-seasons rather than specific lanes. This year that's assassins. That probably means mid and jungle are the most affected directly.
Runes changes need to be built in the new client. Some degree of work can be done in parallel, but there's a fair bit of stuff that's dependent on the client having the right stable foundation in place first. Doing work on runes once that's done is a lot more efficient and less risky as a result.
I'll have to leave the skins/competitive announcements to the skins and competitive teams, those are their areas of expertise.
Woodchucks are all all Rumble mains.
Picanha962 votesThere is a saying
The clothes don' t make the maitre!
the lenght of the post and its contribution to the topic are uncorrelated(Statistically Speaking there is an even stricter term. "Independence" but I didn't use it not because it would be a false claim but becuase you could be confused with its other connotations)
You have no epistemologic&philosophic excuse and so You should NEVER use!
Long-> Not Contributing -> Spam.
Moreover,
I Observation; Damage Enduring holds 3/10 of Top Win Rate
II Facts ; a) Effective health in respect to Armour and Magic Resistance has dimishing returns(Homogeneity of Less than grade 1) and Elasticity
b) It costs significantly more time to Double your Health than to Double your Attack Damage ;evidence
We take the First Damage Dealer ie 
and the first damage endurer ie 
Gp has 76 Attack Damage * The BF Sword Gold Efficiency( 32.5 Gold / AD) = 2470 G to Double AD
Shyvana has 1235 Health * The Giants Belt Gold Efficiency ( 2.63157895 Gold / Health) = 3250 Gold to Double Health
We should Skew Even More the Numbers; would we say they have games of differing lenght? Even So GP would finish his faster as Damage Dealing has value early and Damage Enduring "has value " late
Damage Dealing holds a great advantage over Damage Enduring that diminishes as the game goes on but never zeroes much less reverses for the scales to be balanced ideally there should be no advantage but statistics could be seen withj leniency there should be no MEAN i.e Arithmetic Advantage...
If we have A population with 2 subjects . i.e Early and Late And The first has a value of 1.5 for the arithmetic mean to be 0 it does not suffice for the second to be 0 It must be -1.5
but as I have no statistics I will not use them)
Gankplank Doubles his Attack Damage 14622( we consider Top) (Gold / Game) / 2470 Gold. Almost 6 Times / Game
Shyvana Doubles her Health 13252(She has no Top in gg) Gold / Game / 3250 G. Only 4 Times / Game
Almost 50% faster....
Also Mid Game is at 8-9 lvl?
Shen has 962 Base Health To double Said Health Two Giant's Belts are Needed = 2000 g + Crystalline Bracer(650g) = 2650 Vayne's AD is 65 To double One BF and one Pickaxe are Enough = 2175g
DPS Farms Quicker and has More Kills What Would Mid Game Be 3.5 K Gold? 8-9 lvl?
III Assumption; Tanks are less Importand
Furthermore, Connivance&Social Loafing!
I will follow as above
Most(90%)Social People don't mind this type of harrasment while many (40%) even take part in it so it would cost Riot money to have Welfarist Views!
I Observation; I continuously report people for wishing me cancer and The incidence rate is blatantly not dimishing in the least!
II Fact; I have cancer!
III Assumption; Negligence for Riot, its Empoyees and even the Volunteers!
P.S
Maybe I trust people "too much" but I prefer to accuse them of the "least" offence!
League of Legends is just a game but for some people it is one of the most importand parts of their dayd. It certainly is for mine
Staying healthy, Breathing clear air with a high Oxygen quota, Drinking clear Water, Sleeping Confortably, Eating well, Interacting with society; mainly the Boards(for me the Boards are 51% of Social Time and 49% Friends&Family),Playing League of Legends, Watching Anime, Staying Up to Date on my messages be it Facebook or Emails and Lastly Studying!
Last but not Least to go even further beyond and to try and Solve the Problems and Tell you my Greatest(even greater than disease curses) worry please make a fake facebook acount because this is a big part of my 2016 summer if you don't want to reveal your personal information add me
or atleast give me a fake as always email for me to contact you because I am Worried of People Trying to Muzzle me!
BakeRoIIs1 votesresistances dont have diminishing returns. 1 point in resistances always gives you a 1% of your hp increase in effective hp.
Picanha961 votesBakeRoIIs1 votesits not about percentage change. at any given hp, every point of resistance you get will give you the exact same amount of effective hp. thats not diminishing returns (at least not what i recall diminishing returns means from my economy-classes 5 years ago) if you were talking about decreasing gold efficiency of resistances compared to health, youre right.
Picanha961 votesDear studious professor BAKEROLLS!
Excuse my hideous oversight... Please Teach me the concepts of Elasticity and Homogeneity I scored 100& in MicroEconomics II in my fourth semester and thought I knew my things...
BakeRoIIs1 votesthen you teach me pls. as i said, my last economy classes were 5 years ago. i thought diminishing returns would mean there was a point at which further points in resistances give you less value (tankyness) than the ones before. which isnt true for league. from my understanding, an example for diminishing returns in reality would be if you have a new product and put money into advertising, it will boost your volume of sales drastically at first as people notice the product exists, but at the point where basically everyone already knows about it, more advertising wont do much. therefore the returns you get from advertising is diminishing from there. if you know your stuff, help me understand where im wrong please, instead of being so passively agressive. i never meant to act like a know-it-all and im sorry if it came across that way.
Picanha961 votesthen you teach me pls. as i said, my last economy classes were 5 years ago. i thought diminishing returns would mean there was a point at which further points in resistances give you less value (tankyness) than the ones before. which isnt true for league. from my understanding, an example for diminishing returns in reality would be if you have a new product and put money into advertising, it will boost your volume of sales drastically at first as people notice the product exists, but at the point where basically everyone already knows about it, more advertising wont do much. therefore the returns you get from advertising is diminishing from there. if you know your stuff, help me understand where im wrong please, instead of being so passively agressive. i never meant to act like a know-it-all and im sorry if it came across that way.
Diminishing Returns TO SCALE are when Elasticity and the Homogeneity degree/grade are less than 1
http://economics.fundamentalfinance.com/micro_price-elasticity.php https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homogeneous_function
I am not a very good teacher as I am only 19; I will start my Third Year of my B.Sc in Economic Sciences in September.
BTW
You are an Economist, even an incipient one, if and only if you have studied a B.Sc in Economic Sciences
Βusiness organization and management <-> Manager Accounting and finances <-> Accountant Information Science <-> Information ,i.e. Computer, Scientist Administration and Technology <-> Administrator Statistics <-> Statistician Marketing <-> Marketer
Mathematics was relatively easy before University Nonetheless I gradually got slow to deeply grasp Mathematics
I was teached logarith rules and I could even demonstrate them 4 years ago i.e in my fifth secondary school year, in Greece there are 6 of them I only realy made use of them, nonetheless One year ago.
I can make use and apply rules but I find it difficult to trasmit these rules.
A Sociologist a Professor of mine Jennifer Springer said to me that in U.S there is more choice for an undergraduate student. They will choose a Major Subject which will give them the title to their bachelor i.e B.sc in Economic Sciences, B.A in English Language .... and so on
If I understood correctly I am
An Economic Sciences Major and a Law Minor!( I hate Mathematics I will repeat the first circle of undergratuate studies to get my second Bachelor in Law don't know if Law is an Art or Science)
You had Economy Classes if and only if you are/was a Major in Economic Sciences!
BakeRoIIs1 votesi dont see how price elasticity applies to the value of resistances. also since we're dealing with a linear function, the grade of the homogenous funtion equals 1.
im with you on the math part. im studying chemical engineering. school was so easy and then comes university and quickly shows you that you know nothing at all. quite interesting to learn everything in detail and from the qround up though.
we had economy classes in school. it would kinda defeat the purpose if everyone in the classroom was already an economy major dont you think? the only one thats needs a degree is the teacher.
1Ferdinand11 votesWill items receive some changes in the pre-world patchs?
RiotMeddler4 votesProbably not. Conceivable we make a couple of very small balance adjustments, looking to avoid doing so given how wide spread and difficult to predict accurately the impact from item changes can be though.
hopeful41 votesWe’ll also be making some changes to items to support assassin needs
That means that you wont release new items for the assassins? Damn i saw an item with a cool active from a supposed leak and got my hopes up
RiotMeddler2 votesWe might, not sure yet. Changes to assassin items will be smaller in scope than those to mages and marksmen though and might not include new items, hence that phrasing.
What was the active in question? Almost guaranteed to be fake given to the best of my knowledge we haven't started implementing assassin item changes at all yet (still doing Worlds patch stuff). Curious if there's any good inspiration in it though.
hopeful42 votesIt was from a reddit post that you yourself denied after http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/G37xYYny-meddler?comment=0004. OP of said post deleted it.
The active of said item iirc was that you would appear behind the enemy champion you selected (ofc it had certain range, as well as another limitation i think)
Regardless, i hope that you will introduce an item with impactful unique active in the update. Protobelt has been a lot of fun, it creates item diversity and its functional in all levels of play
Decrit1 votesSince we talk about actives, what do you think about items that have two "phases" to switch in with a lock-in, where those both phases offer power for the same scenario but one can be situationally better than the other? Basically like old Manamune, only that manamune follows "badly" this concept since you can get on and off toggle immediately and without risks.
I was almost ready to bet that i could see something like this on the marksman update, since it's something i find appropriate to them.
Sanjibal4 votesManamune hasn't been able to toggle for a while now.
Decrit2 votesWell, yes. I was referencing the old one. Was not clear enough?
(Just in case i added old to my text )
RiotMeddler2 votesI can imagine a form swapping item working reasonably well with a meaningful cost to swapping between forms. Would want to put more effort into making its state easy to track than we did with old Muramana. No current plans for such an item, seems like a fair concept though.
Solideus1 votesI noticed you've changed the title to "State of Gameplay" rather than "State of the Season". Any significance? Is it an indication we might get other "State of X"-type posts?
RiotMeddler3 votesFelt a bit weird talking about the season when this update both covered stuff unrelated to our seasonal changes (e.g. Worlds balance) and things outside of the season (e.g. possible stuff for next year).
Other 'state of X' posts are pretty likely, though won't necessarily follow the same naming approach (this is just an approach that made sense to Pwyff, myself and a couple of others for stuff we wanted to talk about).
