Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 9

RiotMeddler·5/9/2017, 4:30:00 PM·1 votes·71,773 views

Morning all,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Yorick subtle improvements

Mentioning these since they're harder to datamine. We've got some useability/subtle feel good stuff going for Yorick in 7.10, with Mist Walkers no longer perishing if they're too far from Yorick, Yorick's Q spawning a grave even if there are 4 out already and replacing the last one (instead of just not spawning) and the Maiden benefiting from R rank ups even if she's already summoned. Balance wise we don't really have any room to buff Yorick significantly, we do want to give him a bit of love though, hence the focus on things that are more feel improvements than power.


More things we're particularly keeping an eye on post mid-season

In addition to the updated tanks, Rift Herald etc as previously mentioned there are some additional things we're now specifically tracking for possible work in 7.11 including:

  • Thresh - Mid season's been kind to the chain warden. Belief is that that's the impact of the revised Ancient Coin in part, which gives him needed mana, reduces chances he costs his ally in lane CS with Targon's and gives him more E procs to harass with than Targon's does. Old coin offered most of those benefits too, but suspicion here is that new Coin's a better choice on him overall than the old.

  • Sunfire Rushing Tanks - We're seeing a number of tanks who'd previously been in reasonable spots balance wise struggle a bit more after the Sunfire changes. That's not unexpected, indicating they had problems laning that Sunfire was covering up. Likely direction there is to adjust individual kits so they function more appropriately, rather than using Sunfire as a generic solve.

  • Other items on watch - Death's Dance, BotRK, Banshee's and GA are all getting a lot of observation too. They're not necessarily in bad spots, but they're certainly worth tracking more than average at the least (high usage rates + high impact moments).


Delaying Malz changes to 7.11

We've got a few larger adjustments underway at the moment to Rammus, Malz and Heimer. The Rammus and Heimer ones should be good to go in 7.10, we'll be holding the Malz ones till 7.11 (probably) however to take a bit more time to work on those. One likely change is adjusting the R so its damage is split between pool and beam, which amongst other things gives better counterplay when there are multiple enemies around (ability to interrupt) and therefore hopefully allows us to put a bit more power into its ratio.


Elemental Dragons

At some point (next year seems most likely) we'd like to try adding another elemental dragon to the rotation if we can find one that's distinct from the other in terms of the gameplay it rewards, has at least an ok thematic fit, and doesn't excessively favor particular team comps. Curious to hear if anyone's got any strong suggestions? We've got some ideas kicking around of course, but also really interested in hearing other viewpoints.

550 Comments

RiotAD Yuumi5/9/2017, 10:29:37 PM49 votes

Salt Dragon:

Has a white gem like aesthetic (kind of like a combo between wind and earth).

Attacks encrust you in salt, lowering attack speed and removing all silences.

Defeating one of these drakes will empower your team's CHAT BOXES. Salt Drakes you have killed generate inflammatory commentary in /all chat that is attributed to members of the enemy team who either have the most deaths or most kills. Additionally, Salt Drakes BLOCK inflammatory lines created by your own teammates, preventing them from appearing at all. Salt chat happens once every 90/60/30 seconds based on the number of salt drakes acquired.

Gear5Luffy5/9/2017, 4:45:55 PM25 votes

Make a Elemental Dragon that when is slain it gives you tower hp regen or tower shield when 3 or more enemies are around

GerAvos5/9/2017, 4:51:54 PM23 votes

A golden dragon that gives gold, or increases the gold income rate.

Solash5/9/2017, 5:22:12 PM22 votes

Got a few ideas:

An Undead dragon that reduces death timers

Or An electric dragon that increases spell effects duration (Armor/MR shred, CC, etc)

LongHair Fox5/9/2017, 5:04:59 PM19 votes

Exodia dragon: If you have one of each dragon, you win the game.

TNing of Pine5/9/2017, 5:04:21 PM18 votes

Maybe a dragon that helps with map awareness / vision in some way? Not sure exactly how it'd work - maybe buffs to ward duration, make vision last slightly longer before fog of war returns, increase vision range, ...?

Pannanja5/9/2017, 6:58:05 PM15 votes

Drake Ideas:

  • Passive shield (malphite/rakan) - Forest
  • CC extension (tenacity is cool, but reverse tenacity would feel more unique to the drake) - Ice
  • Buffed minions (like the average team level kind of buffs, not like baron) - Desert? idk
  • Item slot (probably too crazy and doesn't stack well, but choose a completed, non-activatable item to turn into a passive like elisa's miracle) - Metal
  • Summoner cooldown (I think this would be even more interesting if it refunded ~0.5s on summoners upon damaging a champion) - Astral
  • +Gold on CS/ give ~spellthief's passive (passive gold gen would be boring, but active gold generation feels like an impactful drake) - Gold/Diamond
  • Buffed keystones (reduce CDs or increase stats, etc.. Might have to be specific to each one) - Lightning
  • Vision buffs (wards/sweepers last longer, control/blue wards increased sight range) - Light

Speaking of dragons, have you ever considered changing infernal to flat penetration instead of AD/AP so that it benefits classes more evenly? Right now ADCs get the most benefit because they rely the least on base damages. This would be more of a spike and less late game focused, but that could be solved by scaling with level, no?

Ahristocats5/9/2017, 4:50:51 PM13 votes

Hey Meddler

i saw that Thresh win rate increased from 48% to 53% with the new patch i would understand you if you nerfed him

but can you please do it carefully? thresh is a champion that should excel at peeling and relocating allies with lantern making him a great pick against AREAS like j4 ult

if you should nerf him, try to reduce his secondary strengths like his engage?

base movement speed nerf to 325 from 335 and maybe a projectile speed nerf or a range nerf to his Q

Sincerly A concerned Support/thresh main

Obi Juan Kenooby5/9/2017, 5:09:44 PM7 votes

A few dragon ideas, all stats increasing slightly per stack as with existing dragons:

  • x Tenacity

  • x% of max health

  • x Armor/MR

  • x Gold per 10 seconds


The actual element of the dragon could be anything really. You've got Ice, Grass, Wood, tons of stuff.

My only concern would be that adding an extra dragon to the mix would decrease the likelihood of you getting two or three stacks of one specific dragon in a game. I'm not sure if some system could be put in place where there's an increased chance of the next dragon spawning being the same element as its predecessor.

MalrothDragonia5/9/2017, 4:46:21 PM7 votes

Oh, I love the idea of another dragon. Initial thoughts: Metallic - some kind of dmg reduction Astral - small amount of cd reduction on Summoner Spells Void - empower minions

Sire Hippington5/10/2017, 1:22:38 PM6 votes

Thresh - Mid season's been kind to the chain warden. Belief is that that's the impact of the revised Ancient Coin in part, which gives him needed mana, reduces chances he costs his ally in lane CS with Targon's and gives him more E procs to harass with than Targon's does. Old coin offered most of those benefits too, but suspicion here is that new Coin's a better choice on him overall than the old.

I'm curious, does your data suggest that his improved winrate is linked to coin? Cause from other sources it doesn't look like it. https://euw.op.gg/champion/thresh/statistics/support, Still goes relic in every built http://champion.gg/champion/Thresh/Support?, also with relic only http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/items/thresh only 6% start coin, and that with 3% less winrate than the most common relic start

So unless all those 3 sides have their data wrong, coin is not really a factor in Thresh's improved winrate.

My guess is more that relic is quite a bit buffed with the quest reward, Thresh benefits more than anyone else from the LW nerfs as he's basically all bonus armor with next to no base, and he profits from the rather weak state of tanks right now as less tanks in the game make it easier to hit the right targets with the Q in fights rather than haveing it bodyblocked by a beefy dude. He also is pretty strong in the early lane and on early roams, so he adds alot to secureing riftherald which seems to be very impactfull.

Elemental Dragons

At some point (next year seems most likely) we'd like to try adding another elemental dragon to the rotation if we can find one that's distinct from the other in terms of the gameplay it rewards, has at least an ok thematic fit, and doesn't excessively favor particular team comps. Curious to hear if anyone's got any strong suggestions? We've got some ideas kicking around of course, but also really interested in hearing other viewpoints.

I'd prefer if some worke was done on the existing dragons befor adding a new one. Cloud and Ocean still seem a bit outclassed by mountain and Infernal, espcially for winning teams. Mountain just makes burning through other dragons and baron much easier, so it becomes hard for a team that is behind to contest those in time. I've seen barons die in ~5sec lategame, there is not much you can do to contest that, even with 3 clouds you probably won't be their in time if you run from your inner mid by the moment they start it

Infernal is bad design overall, it heavily favours some champions over others(those that like big ap/ad values benefit alot more than supports/tanks/on-hit) and is to generalistic as the increased stats not only help fighting champs, but also with takeing objectives and clearing waves/jungle. Also, fighting champs is so essential to the game that haveing improved fighting power is very desirable anyway. I think it would be a lot better if Infernal increased damage dealt vs champs by some %, this way it won't help at takeing objectives and helps everyone at dealing damage, wether they rely on basedamage, on-hit or ap/ad scaleings.

And finaly, fighting Infernal dragon is to easy. The aoe is just not enough, it's pretty easiely avoided. And asides from that he has nothing. Cloud has the highest singletarget dps so it's hard to solo, Ocean's slow makes it more dangerous if you get spotted by your opponents, Mountain takes longer to take so it has a higher risk and opportunity cost. Infernal just is by far the easiest to take. Maybe add some burning ground to the aoe to force constant repositioning when fighting it.

zaphod4245/9/2017, 4:39:10 PM5 votes

Hey meddler,

Last week u mentioned LeBlanc changes in play testing, no word on that yet, has it been delayed, or have u just not had a chance to play it?

If u do have a test, can you update us asap pls, can't wait for my champion to be fixed

Leblanc item 3070

Spideraxe5/9/2017, 4:40:30 PM4 votes

Meddler can I ask why Riot has been pumping out larger scope of balance changes like the Rammus and Heimer changes lately, not compalinging just curious

Blackquill5/9/2017, 4:37:42 PM4 votes

While I like the idea of more meaningful elemental dragons i'm afraid that due to the addition of one the chances of getting 2 or 3 of the same kind will be lower by a large margin.

l am Qu0tte5/9/2017, 6:06:03 PM3 votes

How are you feeling about Ryze? His win rate (even for top ryze players) has fallen a good chunk in 7.9. Besides that, his win rate as a whole has been drastically low in solo queue even while he was dominating the professional scene (Azir anyone?) Any changes planned for the future?

Sir Nope5/9/2017, 4:34:47 PM3 votes

What's your current thoughts on Leona as a support?

TNing of Pine5/9/2017, 4:43:54 PM2 votes

What are your feelings so far on the things you're watching? I'm particularly curious to know Riot's take on whether new Herald seems to be in a good place.