Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 10

RiotMeddler·1/10/2018, 3:58:39 PM·1 votes·61,534 views

Hi folks,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Large patch/small patch

As previously mentioned we're going to be trying a test this year where we alternate between patches with a larger number of gameplay changes and those with a smaller number. We're interested in whether keeping the game a bit more consistent for 4 week blocks like that results in more development of strategy and interesting play since there’ll be a more stable state to explore/optimize in. We're also hoping it will allow us to get more done solving bigger picture issues (e.g. item overhauls, adding missing runes, kit updates etc), since less time will be spent on short term balance adjustments.

This is very much an experiment we're trying though. It's possible that, while it sounds promising on paper, the result is that it feels like some urgent stuff takes longer to get solved and we don't make much more progress on longer term work. If that's the case, or some other issue crops up, we'll go back to our regular patch approach.

8.2 will be the first of the larger patches, with 8.3 smaller, 8.4 large again etc. Important to note that this large/small cycle only applies to some types of gameplay changes, at least for now. If we're changing a bunch of items for example that'll happen in a large (even number) patch. So will most balance changes. Stuff like skins, bug fixing, rotating game modes, new client features etc won't be taking the large/small distinction into account though and will keep going out in whichever patch they’re ready for. At least for now new champs and VGUs will also continue to be in small patches as well as large. We reassess them in particular at some point if this approach shows promise, see how much benefit there is/isn’t in doing them only in large patches too. We want to start off by basically testing just wider ranging balance changes on that cycle though.


Targeted Spells and Minion Agro

Speaking of wider ranging changes here's one that will be in a large patch if we go through with it. We're currently testing a change where single target click to hit spells that deal damage (e.g. Brand E or Annie Q) will draw minion agro in the same way auto attacks already do. Not guaranteed that change ships yet, it's still in testing, but if it does it would definitely be in a large patch (potentially 8.2 or 8.4).

We're testing this approach because we believe it could make it a lot easier to balance a range of champions. Historically we've had to balance a lot of champs with click to hit spells around the assumption they'll often just be spamming that spell on the enemy until either the target dies/is driven back to base or the caster runs OOM. Pantheon's a particularly clear example of that. The result is a fairly limited play pattern, with limited options for their opponents too (suffer through it or trade back harder). We've had to do things like heavy mana gating, range nerfs, pushing champs out of lanes entirely, conversion of abilities to skillshots as a result to keep some champs in line.

Ranged auto attacks by contrast, while still having some issues, are quite a bit more nuanced because they draw minion agro. There are times for example where landing an AA on an opponent's a really poor idea because of the minion damage you'll take, or the way you’ll make the lane push. That gives windows other people can play around and opens up ways to play the lane. That’s particularly important in ranged versus melee match ups that would otherwise favor the ranged champ noticeably more if it wasn't for that minion agro call.

As said this is still a possible, not a certain change. It's also one that would hit a bunch of champs moderately hard power wise, with Panth, Kassadin and Cass being particularly on our minds. They’d almost certainly need some help afterwards as a result (Panth possibly excepted, given his current strength). Getting some more counterplay onto their baseline abilities would let us give them power in other interesting ways however. A number of champs with low counterplay laning patterns end up really restricted in what other strengths they’re allowed to have. Such a change would also potentially allow us to balance some champs in contexts we’ve had to push them out of in the past (e.g. could we get laning Elise back into play in a balanced way if Q spam wasn't so lacking in enemy response?)


Unsealed SpellBook

We're working on Unsealed Spellbook at the moment. Changes won't be in 8.2 at least, hoping for not too long after though (could be 8.3 if smaller in scope, probably 8.4 if larger). One thing we are trying that I figured would be of interest given it's been a frequent suggestion, is allowing people with Unsealed Spellbook to select some older Summoner Spells that aren't generally in the game anymore. Still trying to figure out which ones we should offer. Some seem pretty safe (e.g. Clarity). Others are really interesting, but might be problematic (e.g. Revive). Will update with where we're at after some more testing and discussion.


Game Pacing Update

We're still looking into game pacing/snowball this week. As of Monday (time of writing) we're getting some changes in for testing to make towers a bit tougher early game. Average game times after the pre-season patch times didn't change that much. Almost all of the time lost however was from laning phase and we feel that’s pushed laning phase down to too short a duration. We’re testing changes to restore a bit of time to it as a result, along with potentially some changes to a couple of snowbally elements (e.g. a potential nerf to Triumph on the gold and/or HP regen).

One thing that makes snowball/pacing trickier subjects to work on is that player viewpoints on them are very disparate. We see some online communities of players for example currently argue that games need to be much longer and snowball is very excessive. Other groups however have different takes. We also do some randomized surveying of LoL players, with a recent (start of January) survey to players in North America, Brazil and Korea (1500 players after they'd finished an SR game). That suggested that on average those people at least wanted a slightly shorter game than they’re getting at present. They also felt that snowball is in an ok state and similar in magnitude to when we surveyed at the start of 2017 and 2018. Strong contrasts in opinion like that make for a trickier space to navigate.

We're going to keep digging into snowball and pacing over the coming weeks though of course, see which hypothesis we can build enough confidence in to act on them. We're confident enough in the loss of laning phase time, based off a combination of player feedback, direct observation of games and collected data for example to test changes to address that. For changes beyond that we'll need to do some more work though. First we'll be processing survey data from other regions (China’s up next). We’ll then looking into how perception of game pacing/snowball does or doesn't change at different MMR bands (e.g. how do opinions in Silver compare to opinions in Diamond?). We also need to break down a bunch of the data we’ve gathered by other segments too (e.g. what’s the exact distribution within those averages of people with strong feelings either way, versus comparatively neutral about things?).

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

402 Comments

zippyHD1/10/2018, 4:01:47 PM30 votes

Hello Meddler - Any information on LeBlanc? The tweaks you were talking about to make her a mix of pre and current LeBlanc?

Do you think you will?

  • Are you reverting something, like with Rengar?
  • Are you going to make W(Distortion) do the main damage again and nerf the passive(waveclear)?
  • Are these tweaks going to be before or after Rengar is coming out?(patch 8.3 or 8.4?)

Hope you will respond, would be much appreciated.

Àhrí1/10/2018, 4:19:48 PM19 votes

Current thoughts on Ahri? Specifically her W?

Incheon1/10/2018, 4:13:26 PM13 votes

Hello Meddler,

Any new information about the upcoming Rengar changes? Will you do any other changes besides reverting his Q?

Rich Homie Rengo1/10/2018, 9:23:22 PM10 votes

Yo meddler, i know your probably bored to hell with all the rengar suggestions, but please just make sure you get in all the sound effects, vfx and quotes this time around - the humming noise and vfx when his q is active, the humming noise and circle effect on his blades when he gets attack speed from it, the 3rd ult quote (raaaaaaaaaaagh....), the full stacks noise. I miss that stuff, made the champ more satisfying and fun to play. Honestly, i think many players are of the opinion that all the old sounds (like his leap, w, ult), made him more unique and fitted his theme better, a lot of the new ones sound mismatched with the older ones. Thanks for working on him though, your bringing back the fun in this game for a surprisingly large amount of players, me included

PS - I know your only intention right now is to work on the Q, but would you ever consider giving his ult the cast time interaction like it used to have, with a longer fade when taking damage? Would be a nice qol, the old fade felt more smooth and less disjointed, and had clearer lines between when your ult is active and when it isnt.

IoLana1/10/2018, 4:25:56 PM10 votes

Morning Meddler, hope you had a good holiday vacation, do you guys have any plans for Lucian with his identity/power crisis he's been the weakest marksmen for a very long time now and lost his identity of what he's supposed to be. It feels as though he's weak at all stages of the game since other marksmen have more damage than him. And doesn't really synergize with crit. The second part of his passive applies the reduced attack damage on his crit aswell. can you guys try making his Q And r crit, and do something about his w?

Also what are you guys looking to nerf on vayne this patch. Ik she's kinda strong rn but all of her counters have been nerfed or just really bad (Lucian, Caitlyn) limiting her competition. Plz let it be a light nerf, vayne was not a problem when the lane bullies and poke supports were viable to put her behind with their constant harass.

Any info is good.

ßiggie Cheese1/10/2018, 4:45:21 PM7 votes

Meddler,

Any new direction for Volibear buffs? VGU is certain, but very distant future - something to help Volibear players in the mean time would be appreciated. He is also an aftershock user - so please keep this in mind.

Seviel Vorose1/10/2018, 4:04:36 PM6 votes

Hi Meddler! A question about Syndra: if the bugfixes won't end up being enough to help her, what do you guys plan to buff of her kit exactly?

Jinzo Torrance1/10/2018, 4:35:39 PM6 votes

What are the proposed nerfs for Malzahar? I looked on PBE but still nothing, or you are holding them back to see how his E drawing creep aggro for 4 seconds plans out?

World Ender1/10/2018, 4:09:58 PM5 votes

Hi Meddler, good morning.

I was wondering if there's any more news on bruiser itemization and/or the new keystone, aimed at helping them out? The recent Resolve stat changes in 8.1 should definitely help to some degree, and it makes sense that you'd want to wait for this change to be out for a while and then reassess. Simply curious as to whether, over the break, if these things were scrapped or if they're still on the table.

Crocodilo Maroto1/10/2018, 4:19:02 PM5 votes

Hey Meddler. Another Patch and no Swain info despiste Reav3 talked about his new soul mechanic on Reddit last month. Can you confirm he will not be teased/revealed this month? People, especially Swain mains are getting desperate to see what the man looks like. Cheers

Radiant Seraph1/10/2018, 4:09:56 PM4 votes

Does this mean the AP item pass will be in 8.4 then?

Primaquarius1/10/2018, 4:04:54 PM4 votes

Wait dont minions already aggro to you when you attack an enemy Champion by any means?

redniwediS1/10/2018, 4:07:25 PM3 votes

We're working on Unsealed Spellbook at the moment. Changes won't be in 8.2 at least, hoping for not too long after though (could be 8.3 if smaller in scope, probably 8.4 if larger). One thing we are trying that I figured would be of interest given it's been a frequent suggestion, is allowing people with Unsealed Spellbook to select some older Summoner Spells that aren't generally in the game anymore. Still trying to figure out which ones we should offer. Some seem pretty safe (e.g. Clarity). Others are really interesting, but might be problematic (e.g. Revive). Will update with where we're at after some more testing and discussion.

Back in season 3 I was playing with a small group that was trying to practice for team ranked. We were each high silver/low gold players individually, but our team play was solidly bronze. We mostly did normals because we rarely had the full team together, but we had a great deal of fun.

I was mostly a top lane main, but my secondary role was support. I always enjoy champions with simple kits who rely on game knowledge, and that didn't really match any of the supports I was playing, so I found my own way to take my top lane experience bot. I started taking Clairvoyance every game, and used my experience of watching my jungler clear from top lane to start tracking the enemy jungler. It didn't start out well, and I'd run into people will really odd clear paths, but most of the time I could give my team some much needed information about where the enemy jungler was. A few times I even got accused of fog of war hacking, which was extra funny because if I was I wouldn't have needed Clairvoyance.

Any chance you're considering Clairvoyance in your list of options? I don't know how often it would be used by other people, but I'd sure be giving it a go.

PremadeXayahADC1/10/2018, 4:27:24 PM3 votes

Can we expect the Shopkeeper update in the Summoner Rift this year? It was said that a voice should be added, but the shopkeeper has to be redone again

KinfThaDerp1/10/2018, 4:23:52 PM2 votes

About that new keystone that went into testing as you said in one of the comments, could you tell us who it's directed towards? ( Bruisers , Tanks , Assasins , ADCs etc. )

Zed genius1/10/2018, 4:02:31 PM1 votes

[deleted]

Carnicore1/10/2018, 4:15:15 PM1 votes

Okay, let's think about what champions that change to targeted spells would affect:

Akali Annie Brand Janna Jhin? Karma? Kayle Kennen? LeBlanc Lulu Malphite Malzahar? Maokai Nami Nunu Quinn Renekton (I've heard that his W doesn't pull minion aggro but that doesn't sound correct) Shaco Swain Ryze Teemo Tristana Viktor Vladimir

Question marks because I don't know if/how this would affect AoE or DoT spells at all.

This is a pretty big change if it goes through, but I like the idea here of putting the same limits on these spells that basic attacks have. Obviously a lot of rebalancing (read: buffs) would have to follow but it could be a really good change in the long term.