Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 14

RiotMeddler·9/14/2018, 4:41:00 PM·1 votes·160,366 views

Hi folks,

Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/6.24.1/img/champion/Ziggs.png

Average games per champion

Wanted to share some somewhat different data today that looks at, when you encounter a particular champion, how many games on average the person playing that champion will have played on them. This is related to the mastery curves talked about previously, showing how far through a champ's mastery curve your opponents or team mates will likely be. Figured this would be good to look at in part since common arguments I see are 'X champion only has a high win rate because only mains play them' or 'Y champion is OP despite a low win rate because most of their play is new people bringing their win rate down'. It's also a pretty easy to display piece of information, compared to something like mastery curves, so for once we can show all champs easily, rather than just a subset.

As you'll see below the average number of games at the high end and low end can vary radically. That doesn't necessarily mean equate to 'most popular' and 'least popular' though. Some champs are popular and have player bases with a lot of average games played (e.g. Yasuo and Lee Sin). Others are pretty niche, but, when you do encounter a player, they're probably played that champ a lot (e.g. Anivia). At the other end of the spectrum new champs especially have low averages because, well, they're new, and people haven't had time to build up as many games yet, even if they're really popular picks (e.g. Kai'Sa). Some champs also have low averages because people are interested in trying them, but conclude what's on offer isn't for them (Ivern's a good example of this). That's not to say those champs don't have mains who've gone really deep on them too, just that they represent a smaller proportion of total games played on that champ.

Data below. This is from all MMRs, in all regions.

https://imgur.com/a/KCtchUZ


Odyssey

Hope you've all been enjoying Odyssey! Keep an eye out if so for a dev blog coming next week that will talk about its development, looking at things like the intended feelings to capture, approach to difficulty levels, work in progress augments (some of which didn't make it) etc. Additionally once the mode's been out for a while we'll pick your brains on how various parts of it feel (e.g. augment system, Kayn fight etc), so that if we take another crack at similar PVE in the future we'll be able to use that feedback to improve things further.

If you're still having problems with the mission of augment systems, apologies. We've addressed a number of problems that cropped up with those, still working on some though. This has been a demonstration that the mission system especially needs to be bulked up somewhat if we're going to be putting this much weight on it. I expect we'll continue to do a lot of mission stuff in the future too, so we'll be investing more time into making that system more robust. Those issues are ones that the PBE can't catch either unfortunately, given they're about load on various server functions that PBE doesn't push the boundaries on enough to reveal problems (nor do some of the smaller regions either incidentally).

242 Comments

Support 4 Lyfe9/14/2018, 5:43:07 PM20 votes

Hey @Meddler, can you please talk about Zyra Zyra and the bugged plant AI not attacking anything when spawned, even in range?

Also, can you discuss the plants' hp changes and if they're ever going to be changed/reverted?

haenex9/14/2018, 4:44:17 PM11 votes

Hello meddler, hope that you are having a great day.

Miss Pounce9/14/2018, 5:03:43 PM9 votes

Thoughts on botlane diversity atm ? I feel like theres no non marksman viable champin in botlane anymore except maybe swain and yasuo.

PopCorn Chick3n9/14/2018, 6:14:59 PM8 votes

Hi Meddler, is there any plan for Zyra beside her AI bugged recently?

Is there any chance you can revert Zyra's rectangular Q back to the Circle shape for her mid lane quality of life and satisfaction to play as?

Shirvallah9/14/2018, 5:38:51 PM8 votes

I’m sure you get asked this all the time and might be tired of answering, but do you have an update for us on Karma’s situation? Any small or large scale reworks in the making?

I sincerely miss playing her. I used to play her all the time, but now, she’s outclassed by all enchanters and mages. And her kit is so linear that I just don’t enjoy playing her like I used to. I used to look past the linearity of her kit because of how reliable she was in solo queue, but now, she may as well not even be considered a champion in my book. I’ve hardly touched her this whole season — even in normals or special modes.

atlıkarınca9/14/2018, 4:53:21 PM7 votes

Hi Meddler. I hear Lissandra's coming in at 8: 20, is that true?

Glory to God9/14/2018, 4:45:20 PM7 votes

Thoughts on Sivir ? More on kit-wise rather than current state. Her being on the lower end of the list is kind of heartbreaking to me, as she has a resonating character for me.

ZaNJeTsU9/15/2018, 7:18:04 AM6 votes

Hello Meddler

I am an old and reworked Aatrox main, that mained Aatrox since season 5, you can check my profile here http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=zanjetsu

we Aatrox mains tried to contact RiotJag a lot of times about bugs and improvements new Aatrox need https://www.reddit.com/r/AatroxMains/new/

but we got no answer from him so as you are the lead gameplay designer I thought that you would read my notes if I wrote them here especially the bugs that need fixes

1- Aatrox bugs: A. Passive (P): if your passive on 2 sec CD, you use your E it will be ready as any ability reduce passive CD by 2 sec, but once your passive is ready after using E, your passive or next attack will never apply on hit effect ( ex. item 3077 passive).

B. Infernal chains (W): sometimes it does not deal dmg at all.

C. Imperial dash (E): sometimes Aatrox will freeze and stop auto attacking and moving after using it, this is the most annoying bug cuz sometimes you are chasing someone that has 10 hp left and you need that auto, but once you use your E you just freeze.

D. The new bug happened this new patch, where your (Q) will never knock-up on hitting sweet spots, also it never knocks up minions, is that intended?

2- Aatrox improvements that are necessary to make him playable:

A. On patch 8.14 you made this change: While reviving, now locks The Darkin Blade recast timer.

But what is really happening that if I used my Q2 and my Q2 did no dmg I will back to Q2 instead of having Q3, this is too bad experience to have, because if I gonna use my Q 2 and deal no dmg I would do that to get able to get Q3 because the enemies will get close to me and I need to defend my self with my Q3, So please fix it in order that even if Q2 deals no dmg, I will get my next Q3 after revive, so that I am able to defend myself when enemies are waiting for my revive to end so that they kill me again.

B. after your mini rework on Aatrox on patch 7.5, you took our feedback about how useless Aatrox was after revive, so you come up with these changes on patch 7.6: Blood Well NEW EFFECT: Is filled to 100% after Aatrox revives. Blood Price / Blood Thirst REMOVED: Stack counter resetting after Aatrox revives. Why am I bringing this up? here is my answer:

if you play Aatrox in solo/due and assume that you are in laining phase or split pushing, getting dived or outnumbered you will use your ult and eventually you will revive, once you revive where 2-3 enemies around you because eventually, they followed you while you were thinking that since you can move while reviving then you are safe (happens 90% of my games), you end up after reviving with no abilities to help no passive and nothing to do, you just feel useless, exactly what Aatrox was in 7.5

So how to fix it? here are my solutions: 1- your passive "Death bringer stance" will reset after reviving ( This feels the same solution as when you removed that stack counter reset on old Aatrox W) 2- if Aatrox received dmg from enemy champs, or dealt dmg to enemy champs during the first 2 seconds after reviving he will refresh the bonus AD buff from his ult 'The world ender" till he is out of combat (old Aatrox used to keep his additional base dmg/attack speed buff after revive if he took or dealt dmg)

Combining these changes with the Q changes I mentioned will improve the way Aatrox work and will make a better experience playing with him

C. The last thing Aatrox need is base state check: The reason I am mentioning it, because you Meddler used to tell us Aatrox mains at the old Aatrox days (before mini rework) that Aatrox can't have good base stats due to his early game revive, new Aatrox has no early game revive so giving him bad stats is not fair at all, at least make his base stats close to what they were

Aatrox base stats nerfs that he received after rework:

Attack speed growth reduced to 2.5% from 3%. Base attack damage reduced to 60 from 70. Armor growth reduced to 3.25 from 3.8. Health growth reduced to 80 from 85. Base health regeneration reduced to 5 from 6.5. Health regeneration growth reduced to 0.25 from 0.5.

I think that his health regen nerf is the most annoying thing right now, he is the only champ that after a team fight I need to base or to go farm jungle to heal up because it takes him years to regenerate his health unlike any other champ in the game, but also I think that you have to revert those base stats nerfs, or at least give us a good reason, your old reason was his revive, now what is your reason when I am against garen and Garen can beat me lvl (1,2,3) without risking anything on his side.

Sir Rouge9/14/2018, 4:53:55 PM6 votes

Thoughts on Karma?

She is seeing as little pro play as Janna and is performing worse than Janna in soloq (who you are looking to buff) (Karma is the worst performing support in the game currently). I understand that she's receiving an update, but that won't be for another couple months. She needs something in the meantime.

I understand you're scared of putting power in her q, or giving back power in the E. However, a great simple buff would be to her W, which is a terrible ability atm (could be healing on second hit (and/or) remove cast time (and/or) damage on second hit (and/or) base root duration (and/or) etc.). She could even get a better base AS to help clear wards faster.

Deathfall9/14/2018, 6:04:55 PM6 votes

How are the Karma changes coming along? The fact that there hasn't been any news or feedback about her rework is very worrisome. Unless the Riot Developer working on the rework is still going through the ideation phase of the rework, is there any feedback you can give us? I know she posted a Reddit thread about what we want to see, but the majority of the comments in that thread were about bringing back her fans. That tells you, Meddler, no one is happy with her theme and visual update you gave her 5 years ago.

I don't want to know about the visual update and thematic problems Karma has. I want to know what you guys are doing with her kit, since history has shown us that any work you do on Karma is very controversial. I do not want to see the same mistakes again on Karma and then you making us wait 5 more years for another rework.

Sad Robot Amumu9/14/2018, 4:55:29 PM5 votes

Hello Meddler!

This is outside of your normal realm of work, but I was curious if Amumu will be getting a double skin release like Blitzcrank to compensate for the Sewn Chaos cancellation in January 2017. Thank you!

Diciembre9/14/2018, 5:14:01 PM4 votes

Any quick thoughts on small changes towards Diana for now before her rework?

kaemani9/14/2018, 4:44:18 PM4 votes

hey meddler, any timeline on the upcoming VGUs? specifically, do you know if amumu is on the timeline yet?

Sposker9/14/2018, 5:22:50 PM4 votes

Any update on the load screen bug where one player (sometimes two) is stuck at 0% until everyone else reaches 100%?

Forsyte Vann9/14/2018, 7:16:23 PM4 votes

Is there any work still on announcer packs? I really want to get a Rhaast and Thresh ones now... Thresh

Spideraxe9/14/2018, 4:54:50 PM3 votes

Also can I hear more on some of the design thinking behind Augments, can you see them being used on SR

Bandityea9/14/2018, 6:10:40 PM3 votes

Why is sivir the lowest on this chart? Is she the least mained adc in the entire game?

Sombrero GaIaxy9/17/2018, 5:36:50 PM3 votes

Hey @Meddler, can you please talk about MordekaiserMordekaiser and his w bug (gets invisible often)?

Wagger9/14/2018, 4:44:48 PM3 votes

It’s been awhile since the mana changes. How do you feel about it overall?

HA I am Shaco HA9/14/2018, 5:20:44 PM3 votes

Thoughts on Shaco's E damage? Shaco [sg-shisa]

Chubbles9/14/2018, 4:50:57 PM1 votes

Meddler do you have any more plans to make it so that games aren't decided by ten minutes? You said before that you wanted teams to be able to close out won games more quickly but I feel like the main issues is that the team that takes the first two outer towers usually just wins.