Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 25

RiotMeddler·8/25/2017, 4:28:57 PM·1 votes·80,033 views

Morning all,


Usual Disclaimers

These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get put delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: https://twitter.com/RiotMeddler


Final round of 7.18/Worlds Balance

We're approaching our final set of balance changes for Worlds at the moment. Before locking changes down we'll be assessing play over the next week, pro play on 7.16 this coming weekend in particular. We've got some potential targets we're already considering changes for as well though of course, quick run through on those below:

  • Possible champion buffs - Azir, Ryze, Nidalee, Ivern, Fiora, Urgot
  • Possible champion nerfs - Kalista, Tristana, Elise, Jarvan, Gnar
  • Possible item buffs - Spellthief's line
  • Possible item nerf - Knight's Vow

Again, these aren't guaranteed changes, just the things already being looked at. We don't have specific changes at time of writing for many of these either, though investigation's underway so we'll have something ready if we conclude they do need changes for 7.18 specifically. These are also in addition of course to other changes already in the patch on PBE already, not a complete list of 7.18 balance changes.


Looking at gold/XP as possible pre-season projects

Speaking of possible work we're also starting to look into some secondary pre-season projects. The big focus of pre-season gameplay wise will be runes, and changes like balance adjustments to champs and items to compensate for the impact runes has. Pre-seasons and mid-seasons are also the best times to do various systemic changes that can be pretty disruptive at other times of the year however. We'll therefore be looking at gold and XP acquisition, some examples of possible directions. First step will be figuring out what definitely needs changes, rather than just being something to investigate. We'll then look at what it's feasible to get done in time without sacrificing needed work on runes. Some, or possibly all of these projects will not ship, so extra important to emphasize here this is visibility on things we're investigating, not a promised set of changes:

  • XP gain - Jungle XP in general, XP from specific camps (Raptors start especially), XP reliability (how big a difference between a successful and an unsuccessful game should there be/is there?)
  • Gold - Degree of gold that comes from inherent GP10, impact on support income from Bandit removal, degree to which gaining map control and then just farming lanes and both sides of the jungle may be over rewarding non risk taking play

Getting games going quicker

Later in the year, potentially also around pre-season, we're aiming to have some further improvements to a few things to make it quicker to get to playing the game. Main things we're targeting right now are trimming a bit of time before minion spawn (with faster start of game homeguards at least to still allow jungle invades) and letting teams with two picks in a row in champ select do them both at the same time again. Matchmaking's also being worked on as usual of course, though that's often more a gradual series of improvements than an individual change to call out.

348 Comments

GinoSoldier8/25/2017, 5:29:10 PM19 votes

Hello Meddler;

I'd like to ask about some basic, core gameplay designs in league that just feel off to me.

1; Champion classes having different gold investment caps in their items; There's effectively around 4K more gold in an ADC's build than in a typical Support's endgame build. I can't understand why Supports, and to a lesser extent, Tanks are relegated to subpar gold-efficiency items in contrast to the more offensive classes. Even without increasing income, wouldn't it augment general player satisfaction to know that at full build, everyone in the game has similar efficiency?

2; Towers losing effectiveness as tanks grow in power and as the game progresses. I understand that games need to end, but it feels to me like there should always be a risk to tower diving, which (although not as bad as it's been at some previous points) feels completely safe for several champions who can get in and out very quickly or too reliably. I understand we can't give Turrets %Max Health true damage, as much as i'd love it, but do you feel like some mechanic could be implemented to augment tower reliability as the game goes on?

3; In the Assassin update, you wanted to make the main Assassin squad have some window of opportunity for the poor victims to defend themselves, however there are several other sources of insane burst in the game that allow for just as little counter play as assassins did before the update. Item actives like Gunblade combined with several mage's high damage kits, lategame ADC crit damage against squishier champions, and animation cancelling or attack resets on several champions early game, like Renekton. (And yes, my main love AP Sona too can get just as absolutely ridiculous when ahead, that undodgeable Q-AA-Lich's combo gets insane.)

These questions are coming from a guy who likes his games long and planned out, so i understand i'll meet opposition from the more hot-tempered, quick-enders out there, but hey.

what you deserve8/25/2017, 4:40:38 PM17 votes

The Ardent Censer "nerf" in the current patch was pretty much laughable- are you saying that you're actually done tuning it?

Penyu8/25/2017, 4:48:45 PM12 votes

Can you help Yorick out by making the AI for maiden better? it usually just stands around doing nothing or tanks the tower and instadies.

Grizzlpaw8/26/2017, 3:40:36 AM6 votes

Any plans to buff Voli? He's been struggling a lot lately. Righteous Glory keeps him playable in lower divisions but only bearly.

what you deserve8/25/2017, 4:41:16 PM6 votes

Also, obligatory: When will Riot stop hating Shaco and Rengar?

DJ S0NA8/25/2017, 4:44:09 PM6 votes

How is Xin Zhao's gameplay update going? When will he make the debut of his gameplay update? And also, what abilities will be changed?

World Ender8/25/2017, 5:05:55 PM6 votes

The Aatrox buffs on the PBE currently (uninterruptible Q, extra range on R) are really nice. They give him more strength and ease of use without just buffing stats, which I know can often be problematic.

I'm glad you guys didn't give Aatrox that soft rework and then forget about him again. I'm curious though, if you were to go back and do it all again, would you even soft rework him or would you skip it and go straight to his full rework? No matter what his current kit seems to be a balance problem, either too weak or too strong, and ya'll have consistently kept him on the weaker side (which is understandable).

I just hope his new kit keeps the same feel as what he is now, but gives better windows of play for Aatrox an his enemies.

Tormentula8/25/2017, 5:08:59 PM6 votes

How do you feel about Kindred, Nocturne, and Urgot right now?

Kindred still hasn't lived up to the promise made by a riot that they're make them viable again, the champion overall suffers on multiple angles. I'd particular like to see if power budget from their ult was shifted around, or alternatively if a rek'sai scope update could be a future plan on them to change an ability (maybe one specifically related to wolf to balance thematics). Wouldn't mind a return of the W SFX as that was pretty special for their character, maybe even return it during the healing of their ultimate?

Nocturne I can't tell if he's weak, or if he's strong, but he's just in an odd spot right now, with low playrate but decent success. I'd love to see his early game helped out just a bit, so he can get to his mid game relatively better since dominant junglers like elise, lee, shaco, and eve make his early hell and the other tanks just make his late even more hell. He's a cool champion but he feels victim to meta trends almost every patch.

Urgot Basically did the buffs do him good so far? Or is there more work planned?

Wet Dryman8/25/2017, 5:40:21 PM6 votes

You guys plan anything for Gragas after Worlds? Like for example minor changes to make him an actual AP Fighter he was supposed to be? You did something similar for Rek'Sai that was considered a Vanguard after you guys failed at balancing her as Fighter, why won't you do similar thing to Gragas (who has very similar balance "biography") considering that he needs much less changes to be one than she did?

LiteUpSketchers8/25/2017, 10:23:08 PM5 votes

I find the lack of Twitch nerfs... disturbing

KMS Bismarck8/25/2017, 4:44:54 PM5 votes

How about nerfing Gragas who is picked like all the time in proplay?

Necroside8/25/2017, 5:55:02 PM5 votes

A Rioter stated that Veigar Veigar was receiving changes in 7.18.... Was this a lie or whats the proposed stuff coming for our guy? Surely you of all people have seen he's been doing poorly this season ever since the introduction of lethality and you guys buffed EoN.

MessiahNyx8/25/2017, 9:25:56 PM5 votes

What exactly are you looking at with Tristana? I'm nervous that you will hard nerf her then the preseason changes will leave her unplayable. Nerf her itemization or just give her a slap on the wrists

LordRedStone Nr18/25/2017, 4:51:05 PM5 votes

What are your thoughts about Ornn? On the Reddit AMA some Rioters confirmed he was on the weak side in their opinion, what would be the right approach to buff him?

Personally his Q feels underwhelming in lane and only usefull to combo with E, maybe give it a bit more damage? Or some base HP and Armour?

However it turns out, I just have one word to describe his charakter: Good.

xX420JannaMainXx8/25/2017, 10:58:50 PM4 votes

If it is confirmed we're looking at Knight's Vow nerfs, is there some sort of plan to re-assess tank support itemization sometime? It really sucks that items intended for supports are being nerfed due to abuse by tops/junglers. It reminds me of the Frost Queen's Claim on mid-laners situation last season.

A full build of tank support items such asitem 2303 item 3117 item 3109item 3190item 3050item 3800 already leaves TaricBraumLeonaAlistar feeling on-average squishier than a top lane or jungle tank who can afford traditional tank items, so reducing the stats on these items only exacerbates the problem.

Tank supports (with the exception of Ardent/Enchanter Taric) are already having a hard time in solo queue compared to Ardent abusers.

Blackspy488/25/2017, 5:04:58 PM4 votes

Will you ever revisit mf's attack speed buff or did you drop this idea?

TheHappyReaperz8/25/2017, 4:58:58 PM3 votes

What are the plans for Bandit? Will support items just be buffed, or will there be a rune that does something like it? What about the other champions who take Bandit outside of the support, like GP?

atomick8/25/2017, 4:33:25 PM2 votes

Any idea how the team will approach changing the Jungle EXP? Looking to lower it in certain areas or alter the system in some way?